We Were All Wrong

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You make the consistent mistake of forgetting how quickly things can change.

Teams get hot. Teams get cold. The Bucs looked absolutely mortal in 2020 midway through. The effing BENGALS made it in 2021!

You also make the consistent mistake of thinking success is a given. There is absolutely no way in which you can spin the NFCCG as a reasonable expectation for a team you were so miserably low on that you'd junkyard dog anyone who dared say they might even end up average. No way. You lose all credibility, in several ways, by even suggesting that.

This is a league of parity, and even the best teams (besides the outlier Patriots) struggle to just pull conference championships out of their asses in transition years, believe it or not. Even juggernauts fail to get there with any consistency, much less win them.

This isn't Madden, and your pie-in-the-sky view of this sport is not grounded in reality.

It's what I'm pointing out actually. Why can't the Seahawks get hot? After what you've seen from this offense. The defense just has to be mid, they've been better the last 2 games, after horrible mismanagment of scheme, coaching, and playing the wrong guys.

Again... This is an odd year. I normally wouldn't have such an expectation. But all I read on here is about how great Pete is. He's coach of the year! If he's so great why can't he make the NFCCG given the state of this conference? I'm not saying win the conference, just make it there.

Pete apologists turn feral at any hint of expectation, when you'd think they'd be like, "Hell yeah! They can make the title game! Have you seen this NFC?! Have you seen are schedule?! Pete's the best! No reason why we can't get the #2 Seed and make a run!" They are currently the #3 seed.

Instead I get attacked, a bunch of strawmen arguments, while at the same time, told I'm a bad fan for even possibly contemplating that as an expectation even though the NFC is as bad as I've ever seen in my lifetime.
 

LeveeBreak

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I'm getting dizzy!
spin dab GIF
 

Ozzy

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Well, that explains a few things.

Here's an idea: Try NOT projecting your political views onto others when trying to discuss football. Ignorance truly is bliss. I think the 1st Amendment even specifically mentions a wall of separation between sports and politics. Or something.
lol it was a joke that goes a ways back.
 

Nunya

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With a franchise QB, that is pretty bad actually. Missed the playoffs entirely the other 2 years. Mike McCarthy got his walking papers with more wins after their first super bowl.

If Pete had done that with Jimmy G or TJack at QB that would be sort of impressive.
A franchise QB who's over inflated skills are being exposed under a lesser experienced coach.

What exactly do you think happens when a coach gets fired? Do you think the owner sits in his office chair and thinks "he isn't winning enough for me, I think I'll fire him". That is not even close to what happens. The owner talks to the GM. They talk to the other team coaches. They talk to the players. They find out how much faith the TEAM has in the coaches ability. ALL players in the NFL are competitors that do not like to lose. It is easy for a coach to lose faith from their players. When that happens that is often the reason they are fired. From everything I've heard the players and coaches on the Seahawks have a lot of faith in PC.
 

Nunya

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It's what I'm pointing out actually. Why can't the Seahawks get hot? After what you've seen from this offense. The defense just has to be mid, they've been better the last 2 games, after horrible mismanagment of scheme, coaching, and playing the wrong guys.

Again... This is an odd year. I normally wouldn't have such an expectation. But all I read on here is about how great Pete is. He's coach of the year! If he's so great why can't he make the NFCCG given the state of this conference? I'm not saying win the conference, just make it there.

Pete apologists turn feral at any hint of expectation, when you'd think they'd be like, "Hell yeah! They can make the title game! Have you seen this NFC?! Have you seen are schedule?! Pete's the best! No reason why we can't get the #2 Seed and make a run!" They are currently the #3 seed.

Instead I get attacked, a bunch of strawmen arguments, while at the same time, told I'm a bad fan for even possibly contemplating that as an expectation even though the NFC is as bad as I've ever seen in my lifetime.
You deserve all of the attacks you are receiving. You act like you know what goes on in the locker room. You act like you know what goes on on the sidelines. And you act like you know what goes on in the huttle. You act like you know more than coaches that have been involved in football their entire life. In reality, you know less than nothing compared to PC. I have never seen you post anything where you were spot on.

The same players are still playing on the defense. PC in his last presser explained that things were adjusted to fit each player's strength. You can only find out those strengths through game play and watching film. The fact that adjustments were made IS a sign of great coaching.

I don't think you are a bad fan, but I do think you have unrealistic expectations and are influenced by your own feeling and not facts.
 

chrispy

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No where in my OP did I say Pete sucks if he doesn't make the NFCCG. I was just pointing out I don't have any faith or trust in him. Which is purely, based on his history going back to 2015 in the playoffs (7+ seasons.) Watching him get outcoached by Jason Garrett is hard to unsee.

Pete has obviously bought himself more time with these current results. The question is will he do anything with it? You don't seem to think so, 1st round early exit upcoming, even though simultaneously you think he is coach of the year. I think they could actually do it given the NFC landscape, but I guess not.
We'll agree to agree. I don't think Pete sucks either. I don't have faith or trust that he'll win NFCCG and SB every year or nearly every year or even that often either. BTW, statistically, average is one SB every 32 years, Conf Champs 1 in 16, Division Champs 1 in 4 yrs, Playoffs about every other year. Pete's Seahawks are well above average in each category.

I think it'll take another year to make a deep run. I guess I'm more pessimistic than you. I envision NFCC in 23 and SB in 24. I hope you're right and Seahawks win NFCCG this year. I just think it'll take Pete one more year to teach this young team how to win late in the season.
 
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There you go, cherry picking again. That is like asking what Belichick's playoff record is since 2019. Or Tomlin's playoff record since 2009. Or Andy Reid's playoff record before 2019.

You seem to act like Carroll lost every game all by himself. Coaches can help players achieve their highest level of performance, but they do not play the game for them. You might know a little bit about football (I'm guessing from Madden), but you really seem to not understand "the game" and "the game" within professional football in particular....and you prove it more and more every time you post. If you did, then you would know that the number one factor influencing whether a team wins or loses is player execution. You can have the absolute best play calling and even the best coaches, but one busted play...one missed assignment...one injury to a key player...or one badly timed penalty can and often does change the direction of the game. The NFL is very competitive. This is proven EVERY SINGLE SEASON. At the start of each season, almost every fans says "this could be our year". At the beginning of the playoffs, most fans of 12 teams (now 14) thinks their team has a great chance of going to an even winning the SB. But in reality, less than half (44%) of the teams will make the playoffs and only 1 team (0.03%) will actually win the SB.

Based on what you post, you put out the impression that you think if a coach does not take their team to the playoffs each season or doesn't advance to later rounds in the playoffs then they are a failure and could never be successful in future playoffs or winning the SB. Almost as if you think they forgot everything they know about football after a couple of unsuccessful seasons.

I don't know where your hatred of PC came from. Were you a Husky fan with an ingrained hatred of PC from his USC days? Did he run over your dog? Date your ex? Pissed in your Wheaties? No matter, but the stats do not support your narrative. The opinion of other coaches do not support you narrative (PC is highly regarded by his peers). The opinions of most of the players that have played for him does not support your narrative. In fact there is really absolutely nothing that supports your narrative.

This team is playing well at this time. Who knows, they may explode and not win another game this season....or they may go on to win the SB. In any case, while PC will get credit or blame either way, it will be the players that win or lose any particular game.
I don't hate Pete, I've just watched him get outcoached too many times in the playoffs for far too long. Getting filleted by Garrett was the last straw for me, I can't unsee it. Their only playoff wins since 2015 have come against a 40 year old injured backup, the Lions, and a kicker missing a chippy. I'm not impressed.

Rattling off records from over a decade ago doesn't mean much in football. He had the team of the century, which I will give Pete full credit for being instrumental in assembling, and coaching into what they became. But he only was able to get 1 Superbowl out of that team.

DVOA wise they were the 90's Cowboys, but in a salary cap era. He had a bigger advantage over opponents than Dallas who were originally assembled before the salary cap existed. The dynasty that never was. Not impressed, he squandered it.

Pete should send Kaep a gift basket every year for throwing at Sherm, otherwise the Seahawks would have 0 SuperBowls had he not. I thank my luckystars every year Kaep was dumb enough to throw at Sherm, even though Kaep was moving the ball so comfortably at the end of the game going to his left as they marched right down the field.

80% of the love Pete gets on here right now should be going to JS. I think JS is the best college prospect evaluator in the business, and has been hamstrung many years by Pete Al Davis'ing drafts. Flushing 1st rounders on guys like Jamal, and Percy. Pete
has made JS's job incredibly hard over the years.

Pete is a player's coach, and a likeable guy, of course they are going to say good things about him.

My biggest concern for what they are currently building, is the 2022 draft class is legit. If they stack another class next year in this crappy conference? They should own it. "Should" being the key word. Based on history, Pete could very well squander this team, too.

I mean… we got no one on here with any confidence at all that they can make it to the NFCCG with a top 5 QB in this dilapidated conference, which speaks volumes about their actual confidence in Pete Carroll. In 2012, before Wilson ever threw a pass in the regular season, many 12's were confident the team could make a run. Bear in mind they went 7-9 the 2 years prior.

Ultimately, it's the coaches job to get the players ready to play, and to out maneuver the opponent on the chess board. I will continue to critique with this in mind. And not simply just hand out passes because he won a superbowl 10 years ago, and is a likeable guy.

If Pete is coach of the year material, he shouldn't have much of a problem navigating this NFC with a top 5 QB at the helm.
 
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You deserve all of the attacks you are receiving. You act like you know what goes on in the locker room. You act like you know what goes on on the sidelines. And you act like you know what goes on in the huttle. You act like you know more than coaches that have been involved in football their entire life. In reality, you know less than nothing compared to PC. I have never seen you post anything where you were spot on.

The same players are still playing on the defense. PC in his last presser explained that things were adjusted to fit each player's strength. You can only find out those strengths through game play and watching film. The fact that adjustments were made IS a sign of great coaching.

I don't think you are a bad fan, but I do think you have unrealistic expectations and are influenced by your own feeling and not facts.
No one deserves to be attacked for giving an opinion.

Who do you fear in the NFC?
 
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We'll agree to agree. I don't think Pete sucks either. I don't have faith or trust that he'll win NFCCG and SB every year or nearly every year or even that often either. BTW, statistically, average is one SB every 32 years, Conf Champs 1 in 16, Division Champs 1 in 4 yrs, Playoffs about every other year. Pete's Seahawks are well above average in each category.

I think it'll take another year to make a deep run. I guess I'm more pessimistic than you. I envision NFCC in 23 and SB in 24. I hope you're right and Seahawks win NFCCG this year. I just think it'll take Pete one more year to teach this young team how to win late in the season.
Which is odd, the Pete Carroll believers should be jacked. Instead they by like "Temper expectations."
 

LeaveLynchAlone

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If Pete cannot make the NFCCG in a down NFC with a top 5 QB, and the #1 scoring offense in the NFC when will he?
What exactly is this narrative of a down NFC? Statistically Geno is a top ten QB after 7 games, but what does that have to do with this team or even the playoffs, let alone the NFCCG. You know nothing of what the future holds yet you act as if the now is the future. You arguments really are ridiculous. Fade you give nothing to work with because you use irrelevant words as if they mean something relevant.

You do have one thing going for you, which is ultimately what you must want. What you write is not unlike the media begging for eyes for $$$. You are just begging for eyes for ???? I don't know.

What I do know is that as long as you think you are correct nothing else matters to you. Most others have figured out your empty words are simply empty. 💃💃💃
 

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Completely ignoring the new 'Pete must get to the NFCCG in order to be a success' nonsense that this thread is predicated on, but I did want to point out that according to FootballOutsiders, we are now one of the top 10 teams most likely to win the Super Bowl. (We are, however, 5th in the NFC on that list, so statistically still not favored to make the NFC Championship Game.)

We are also now the favorites to win our division AND more likely than not to make the playoffs, per their formula.

Exciting stuff.
Truth is irrelevant for Fade! Fade is all about the fantasy disguised as truth.
 

acer1240

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Fade gets attacked too often here.. He's been a great contributing member for years now. Yes, somtimes he flips opinions but we all do. He's one of the few who bring actual football content nowadays. Don't run him off like you did to Kearly.
 

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Pete's a SB winning Coach that has more rookie starters than any other team and is over performing everyone's expectations, including yous, but he sucks. ...also makes sense.

Daboll is definitely in the argument. However, he should be fired if the Giants don't win the NFCC in this off year.
Well the Giants have a 6 -1 record and the Seahawks are only 4-2 therefore everyone knows that Daboll will win this weekend and Carroll will lose. Daboll = good and Carroll = bad. Didn't you hear? Fade said so. How vapid have Fade's words become?
 

Ozzy

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Someone actually said “you deserve all the attacks you’re getting” all because someone is critical of Pete. This forum has gone to absolute shit.
 

Hawkpower

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With a franchise QB, that is pretty bad actually. Missed the playoffs entirely the other 2 years. Mike McCarthy got his walking papers with more wins after their first super bowl.

If Pete had done that with Jimmy G or TJack at QB that would be sort of impressive.

That Russ is/was a franchise QB has been proven to be a myth
 

LeaveLynchAlone

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Not expecting the Seahawks to make the NFCGG is clearly more reasonable than your hyperbolic take of being forever doomed as long as Pete Carroll is the coach.

You keep spewing the same mirage with a different spin yet as your mirage fades in one location with new data, you only change your location but continue using the same tired old mirage.

Dense much?
 

Nunya

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I don't hate Pete, I've just watched him get outcoached too many times in the playoffs for far too long. Getting filleted by Garrett was the last straw for me, I can't unsee it. Their only playoff wins since 2015 have come against a 40 year old injured backup, the Lions, and a kicker missing a chippy. I'm not impressed.

Rattling off records from over a decade ago doesn't mean much in football. He had the team of the century, which I will give Pete full credit for being instrumental in assembling, and coaching into what they became. But he only was able to get 1 Superbowl out of that team.

DVOA wise they were the 90's Cowboys, but in a salary cap era. He had a bigger advantage over opponents than Dallas who were originally assembled before the salary cap existed. The dynasty that never was. Not impressed, he squandered it.

Pete should send Kaep a gift basket every year for throwing at Sherm, otherwise the Seahawks would have 0 SuperBowls had he not. I thank my luckystars every year Kaep was dumb enough to throw at Sherm, even though Kaep was moving the ball so comfortably at the end of the game going to his left as they marched right down the field.

80% of the love Pete gets on here right now should be going to JS. I think JS is the best college prospect evaluator in the business, and has been hamstrung many years by Pete Al Davis'ing drafts. Flushing 1st rounders on guys like Jamal, and Percy. Pete
has made JS's job incredibly hard over the years.

Pete is a player's coach, and a likeable guy, of course they are going to say good things about him.

My biggest concern for what they are currently building, is the 2022 draft class is legit. If they stack another class next year in this crappy conference? They should own it. "Should" being the key word. Based on history, Pete could very well squander this team, too.

I mean… we got no one on here with any confidence at all that they can make it to the NFCCG with a top 5 QB in this dilapidated conference, which speaks volumes about their actual confidence in Pete Carroll. In 2012, before Wilson ever threw a pass in the regular season, many 12's were confident the team could make a run. Bear in mind they went 7-9 the 2 years prior.

Ultimately, it's the coaches job to get the players ready to play, and to out maneuver the opponent on the chess board. I will continue to critique with this in mind. And not simply just hand out passes because he won a superbowl 10 years ago, and is a likeable guy.

If Pete is coach of the year material, he shouldn't have much of a problem navigating this NFC with a top 5 QB at the helm.
So how do you know that it is PC making JS job hard and not the other way around? Bottom line is YOU DON'T. You are not in the room when the decisions are made. You do not know what input was given. You just automatically blame PC. I think you could be a good poster except you are always quick to place blame on someone (more often it is PC) when you really have no clue on where any blame should actually lie. That is called talking out of your ass. You constantly call it Pete Ball, but you don't know who calls the plays or what direction the actual play caller was given. You say PC squandered a dynasty, but have no clue about what the locker room atmosphere was like and never seem to consider things like injuries, bad breaks, or missed assignments. When good things happen you say it is in spite of PC, but to you he is the reason when anything bad happens.

I have confidence they can make the NFCCG with this roster. However, I am a realist that understands that there is a lot of football that still needs to be played and many things will happen between now and then. Other teams will be improving throughout the season and injuries will take a toll on all teams. The standings after 7 weeks is irrelevant and, quick frankly, juvenile to use as a metric for success.

In regards to your claim that it should be no problem with a top 5 QB. That is so much bovine excrement that it does nothing more than stink up the room.

If the team continues to head in the direction they have shown in the last 2 games, PC should be a shoe-in for COTY. However, the team has a long ways to go yet to reach the end of the season....and they have plenty of room for improvement yet. They also will be playing tougher teams as the season progresses. It would not surprise me if they lay an egg or two in this season.

And yes...by your irrational posts there is no doubt you hate PC.....or at least give out the impression that you do.

p.s. EVERY NFL coach has been out coach in games at one time or another....and most likely in many games.
 
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