We Got What Many of You Asked For

JustTheTip

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There's no guarantee it'll only be a few years. It could be 1 or it could 15
And there was no guarantee that bringing in a previously .500 NFL coach to replace Mora after just one year would not drive the franchise back into the 90s. It was time to take the chance.
 

Shanegotyou11

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Or 25. Or 35? How long did it take Seattle to get its first? Why is that not a more realistic time frame. 12 teams have never won a title. The Lions recently celebrated their first playoff win in 32 years. In the meantime Carroll racked up enough playoff wins to be tied for #11 all time, despite spending a decade in college football. Anyone who calls perennial winning seasons & playoffs 'mediocrity' simply has no concept of reality in the NFL.

What fantasy land are people living in, thinking Super Bowls just naturally come to those who wait. You all do realize that almost every Super Bowl since 2013 has been won by Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes - and whichever coach was attached to them? Teams hang banners for a reason, because division championships, playoff wins, and just making the playoffs are all accomplishments. And some of us like watching our teams win and get to the playoffs, whatever happens after, rather than in a state of perpetual irrelevance. Any fan not spoiled like Seahawks fan would surely agree.

Carroll kept the Seahawks relevant for 14 years against all kinds of downward pressure: NFL equalizing mechanisms, bad schedule luck in the hardest division in football, the worst travel schedule in the league, and so on. You guys that would fire the likes of Tomlin or Carroll for their 'winning mediocrity' are nuts. By your logic you would have also fired Jim Harbaugh in SF, John Harbaugh after missing playoffs 4 of 5 seasons, Sean Payton for three straight 7-9 seasons in NO. How about 3 brutal losing seasons for Shanahan? You're fired!

There are far too few good coaches in the league and far too many reasons why teams fall short year to year. Carroll has come back from the dead umpteen times: he led 3 elite defenses on 3 different teams in 3 different decades (49ers in the '90s, USC in 2000s, Seahawks in the 2010s). The various metrics used by analytics folks to isolate and measure coaching contribution are pretty uniform and undeniable when it comes to Carroll, even late into his tenure:



So what was Pete fired for after all, when these other ultimate coaching survivors above weathered much worse storms? After constructing an historically great team playing in back to back Super Bowls, then moving on from the ageing LoB to pivot resources to the offense and rebuild around Wilson, Pete kept the Seahawks competitive, if not outright contending, for years -- all with, let's face it, a selectively gifted but ultimately 'limited' quarterback. He was no Brady or Mahomes tier even at his peak. But as late as 2020 the Seahawks were 12-4, missing NFC first seed by only a hair. 2021 was the lost season with hobbled QB. Then came the bold trade and reboot with Geno, which absolutely everyone heralded as a success beyond all expectations in 2022, putting Carroll in the Coach of the Year conversation. 2023 was really the first truly disappointing and unexpected result (despite beating 3 teams that later made the playoff and producing another winning season). There are many extenuating factors one could point to, but in any case, for that Pete should have been asked to make changes (e.g. new DC) but allowed to finish out his contract.

Evan Hill and his mindless hoardes died long ago on the hill that Carroll was holding back the greatness of Russell Wilson. Just as soon as that myth was dispelled, they constructed a new one, that Pete was the cause of all of Seattle's defensive woes. Well, here we are 6 games into 2024 with a new defensive genius and we've now seen what nonsense that is too. Mike Sando of The Athletic reported that Seattle's defensive performance against the Lions was the third worst by EPA in 14 years. The Giants loss was even more humiliating. At home against the 49ers, they somehow topped it, looking like an absolute mess in all phases. That 49ers lineup by the way was easily their weakest in many years: an already diminished 2024 roster that was additionally missing many key players (McCaffrey, Feliciano, Pearsall, Hargrave, Greenlaw, Hufanga, Ward, Moody, etc.)

Coaching is hard, winning harder. Macdonald inherited a talented but uneven team: good offensive talent, good cornerbacks, and a defensive line that was finally coming together (after years of 'mediocre' drafting by John). The 'linebacker guru' Mike Macdonald has candidly admitted that it's linebacker play that is killing the defense right now, despite him resetting the roster there and it being where his greatest expertise lies. I'm still rooting for MM but we simply have no reason to expect greatness and it's far more likely he is the next Brandon Staley than he's the next Pete Carroll.

Great Post.
 

Shanegotyou11

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Some Posters on here and X blamed Pete for Russ. Blamed Pete for the defense. It was always Petes fault. Some credible and some not. They also wanted Pete fired for 5-6 years and would quote analysts who said when PC messed up,etc.

Now MM is here like they wanted and now is blaming PC for this roster once the Hawks became .500. Then tells ppl they are not a fan if they are upset at MM and the 3-3 start. Or if you hope MM adapts his run defense that sits at 30th since middle of last yr.

Seems hypocritical when u read that. Blame one coach repeatedly and then try to take fandom if ur not happy for 3-3.

Mm will learn. All of this is a over reaction. Winning is also harder then ppl think.
 

LTH

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The bottom line is, Seahawk fans are spoiled.

Here is my point.... the expectation for most seahawk fans was that it was going to take a couple of years for this team to be a serious play off team. Then...during the off season and after the draft, everybody bought into the hype. The expectation then increased. Now the expectation increased to like 11-5 and a play off victory.

They are 6 games into the season 3-3. People are already unhappy. Not even giving MM a chance to grow his team because of an unrealistic expectation. Seahawk fans have no tolerance to lose period.

Pete Carroll missed the play offs just a few times in his tenure. People wanted him fired not because he was a poor coach but because he is not super human. Pete Carroll was fired not because he was a poor coach but because the fan base turned against him.

I'm shocked that it's not even the half way mark in the season and fans are turning on him already. Ok... what ever...


LTH
 

m0ng0

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I was always and still am a Pete fan, and I like Mcdonald, but you dbags can't be happy with anything, hell we could hire bellichek and you people would bitch, Because you geniuses all know better. It gets so tiring, that's why this board sucks.
 

keasley45

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I'm specifically talking to the fire Pete crowd, now I was all for some change, but it appears it was not the coach being the issue.
Most likely we would have the same record (or close) with Pete at the helm. Players that can't tackle like they have oil rubbed all over them. This team already looks like they checked out. Just seeing Geno and DK's body language tells me so.
It appears there will be some major changes to players in the near future, at least I hope so.
This was a shet show last night.

I get the anger, but its a bit premature, isnt it? I mean, i thought they'd finish the first 6 games better than .500, but at the same time, i get why they are where they are.

I was also a Pete supporter because i know how hard it is to find a quality HC, let alone an entire staff that (a) works well and then (b) stays together long enough to benefit from continuity.

But i dont see any reason to br looking for the eject button, as i beleive it is the way J Love, M Mac and the rest have said - that its not the design thats wrong, its the entire unit 'getting it' and being assignment correct.

We have been undermanned for most of the first 6 games. Having key personnel out and backups (even promising ones) having to carry the burden will slow development.

3 games in 11 days with that same udermanned staff just makes it that much more difficult.

Add to that the reality is the post Wilson trade boon was fantastic for the talent we brought in, but there are a lot of rookies on this team, as even the guys who came in 2 years ago are having to learn a completely new system - they have seasons under the belt, but none that prepared them for the new scheme or renewed culture.

Its a lot to throw at them. Im not making excuses. But you can see last game that it was less a case of us not having a solution for what the 9ers were doing, it was not executing the solution properly.

The D Sam TD? Love was there and had he been a split secong earlier, could havr had a pick or at worst a tackle for no YAC.

The TD to Kittle? Again, Love was there and it took a perfect pass.

The long run to seal the game was just bad assignment ball.

But in each instance, when you watch the breakdowns on All22, its almost always been one guy guessing the wrong way or stepping wrong. A LB not filling the wrong gap because he forgot he had a DB (behind him) outside of him, a safety slow to roll coverage, or a LB / Edge player split too wide and taking himself out of the play.

The number of those errant plays thrusday was far fewer than what we saw against Detroit. Im tossing out the Giants game because i think it was squarely a case of a young squad looking beyond the game in front of them.

And unfortunately, when you've gone against 3 of the best OCs in football in an 11 day span with a team learning to play together, let alone a young one, there are going to be a lot of 'firsts' in terms of learning the hard way and being taken advantage of by savvy coordinators on thr other side of the ball that know EXACTLY the plays to run to takr advantage of an aggressive (but undermanned and inexperience) D.

On offensr, its all about the line. And with the line, its all about who we get to hold down LT and how quickly the interior can come together. Everything hinges on those two elements.

But pulling the plug? No way.

They're learning on the job. And as much as thry looked better than they were over the first 3 games, they arent as bad as they've looked over the last 3

3 in 11 days.

Until there is evidence of Mike losing the lockerroom over the next few weeks, i think they'll be fine. As much as i would have liked them to be better than they are now, asking the holdovers on defense to unlearn everything they knew under Pete in a few short months, and for an offense to find its footing with its new OC... its a tall order.

And that's not me rationalizing poor play. Its seeing some things getting better week to week (Giants excluded) and hesring the guys to a man call it all the same thing - they are beating thrmselves by not playing assignment correct, tight football. Acknowlesging that, plus with the talent, leadership and smarts of the FO and coaching staff... they just need to keep their heads down, fix the errors and get healthier.
 

jeremiah

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I'm specifically talking to the fire Pete crowd, now I was all for some change, but it appears it was not the coach being the issue.
Most likely we would have the same record (or close) with Pete at the helm. Players that can't tackle like they have oil rubbed all over them. This team already looks like they checked out. Just seeing Geno and DK's body language tells me so.
It appears there will be some major changes to players in the near future, at least I hope so.
This was a shet show last night.
We have an empty tool box. Poor drafting, giving away the farm for Safeties? Who made that decision? PETE did. That set us back a few years. You build a team through the draft and shrewd trades. I disagree with the trade for Big Cat Williams too. He is a rent-a-player. You do that when you are close. We are nowhere close, with a ********* for a QB, and DK the underacheiver on board. Trade them both, get draft choices and build a team. JMO, but Geno is 38 years old, he had is flash now get him out of the Seahawk Uniform.
 

jeremiah

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I was always and still am a Pete fan, and I like Mcdonald, but you dbags can't be happy with anything, hell we could hire bellichek and you people would bitch, Because you geniuses all know better. It gets so tiring, that's why this board sucks.
The problem with the Hawks is the cupboards are bare. We missed on LB draft choices, we missed on linemen on both sides of the ball. They need to see the future, trade Geno, trade DK, and take your lumps. The future will be bright, but we need some S T U Ds.
 

Msfann

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Good or bad it was the right time to part with Pete. He's awesome and probably the best head coach this team has ever had but his run was over.

If people would think of this season as a pre season for the he coaches/players to learn the system things really aren't that bad and there is plenty of time for them to work on things. Don't expect anything from the team this year and if they sneak into the playoffs that would be great. I do hope we start to see the D to start to gel soon though.

I don't really get why people expected instant success.
 

Sperrydogg

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There are rumors thet leaked from the scouting department that say otherwise and that a couple of high end draft picks went completely against the scouting department and ended up being disasters. I think Collier is one of them. It’s all rumors so who knows but the drafting style completely changed as of late which to me points to John having more control than he did in earlier years. We will never truly know I’m guessing and overall I would agree they had a great working relationship especially considering how hard it would be to have that kind of set up
I think Devon Witherspoon is only here cause of pete
 

JayhawkMike

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Funny thread: You damn hypocrites not holding a brand new head coach to the same standard as one who had been here a dozen years and who built the roster! Waaaaaaaaaahhhh! PC forever!!!
 

MORGULON

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He wasn't asked about anything negative so he didn't need to cover anything up. He was simply asked how often he was overridden by Pete, and he simply said maybe a handful of times. In other words, not much. Can't be more straight forward than that.
If Carroll overrode him often do you think JS would say so?
 

LTH

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If Carroll overrode him often do you think JS would say so?
Interesting question. I guess my question is, what would he have to gain by saying if he was overridden? I would guess he has nothing to lose by being truthful.

LTH
 

MORGULON

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Interesting question. I guess my question is, what would he have to gain by saying if he was overridden? I would guess he has nothing to lose by being truthful.

LTH
Saying he was overridden would give him leeway moving forward . But it would also break a behind the scenes trust that I'm sure organizations have. It wouldn't be a good look .
 

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