We Got What Many of You Asked For

[Ozzy]

Rumor vs John Schneider himself. Which source is more credible?

Well John is a class act, what are the changes he would say anything negative about a close friend? Zero. If we listened he gave some clues that they changed up their drafting approach these past two years. Maybe Pete fully supported it too? He probably did imo because he respected John. I think for years Pete had more influence in the draft room and they went away from that towards the very end. Multiple people close to the team have said the same thing. Maybe they’re all conspiring.

 

[Maelstrom787]

They drafted two tackles in the first three rounds. They never did that. They hadn’t taken a corner in the first rounder either. This draft looked nothing like the previous 10 or so to me. Heck John said they completely changed their approach after self scouting what they’ve been doing. The toolsy raw guy? Witherspoon and Murphy are great football players first.

Murphy feels like a guy they would’ve taken previously though if he fell.

The board cull movement started in 2018 after the disaster that McDowell was in 2017. The new model was "STR". Strong tough reliable. They always said stuff about retooling their processes.

Still, it followed a pretty predictable road map. They didn't draft 2 tackles before in the first 3 rounds, true, but they did draft a top LT in 2010 and then they drafted an RT/G in rounds 1 and 3 in 2011 (Yes, Carpenter ended up at guard but was drafted as an RT).

I think the resources available changed. I think the process was pretty much JS to a tee, though. Classic JS, even.

 

[Ozzy]

The board cull movement started in 2018 after the disaster that McDowell was in 2017. The new model was "STR". Strong tough reliable. They always said stuff about retooling their processes.

Still, it followed a pretty predictable road map. They didn't draft 2 tackles before in the first 3 rounds, true, but they did draft a top LT in 2010 and then they drafted an RT/G in rounds 1 and 3 in 2011 (Yes, Carpenter ended up at guard but was drafted as an RT).

I think the resources available changed. I think the process was pretty much JS to a tee, though. Classic JS, even.

I actually liked the McDowell pick at the time lol.

I still think there are enough voices close to the team saying the same thing for it to not be true. I think Pete(to his credit really) chose to step away slightly during the draft process and not override picks like he did in the past. Again maybe these people made this stuff up but it doesn’t seem likely.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Though I am disappointed Seattle isn’t 6-0, I will still take Mac over Carroll as head coach.

At least with Mac, he’s inherited a team that is still 80 percent Carroll/Schneider’s product.

Give Mac another 2 or 3 drafts and the team should be all Mac.

I’m not surprised there are still a Carroll following here on dot net. You would think Carroll is a Messiah.

But yeah, Seattle 3-3 with Mac is still a better opportunity to get better if you give Mac at least 2 or 3 more draft classes.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I actually liked the McDowell pick at the time lol.

I still think there are enough voices close to the team saying the same thing for it to not be true. I think Pete(to his credit really) chose to step away slightly during the draft process and not override picks like he did in the past. Again maybe these people made this stuff up but it doesn’t seem likely.

I still think McDowell was a fine pick. Even if he was a knucklehead, you can't really predict the dude scrambling his brain on an ATV.

Its fine to pick outrageously talented knuckleheads in round 2 tbh, it just ended badly

 

[James in PA]

"I told ya so" 6 games into a rookie coach's tenure? Wow.

 

[GemCity]

As we’ll likely never know, I have my doubts that a guy who had overriding power, and was the HC, didn’t influence the draft as heavily as the GM.

Sure, they worked together. Both JS and PC are class acts. JS isn’t going to come out and say “I wanted Creed but this mfka chose Eskridge”.

But, as is the case in most organizations, teams are usually better off with a division of power(s).

I’m not knocking PC. The draft is a literal crap shoot.

But let’s not make it seem that these are solely “JSs guys” or even further fetched, MMs guys. Vets brought in this year were out of sheer necessity…Dodson…Baker…

The current team is a product of years past. MM will need time.

As it stands, there aren’t enough dogs in the kennel.

 

[Atradees]

Brinks truck for the 9ers guy. Free agency draft tradesvwhatever

 

[hox]

Well John is a class act, what are the changes he would say anything negative about a close friend? Zero. If we listened he gave some clues that they changed up their drafting approach these past two years. Maybe Pete fully supported it too? He probably did imo because he respected John. I think for years Pete had more influence in the draft room and they went away from that towards the very end. Multiple people close to the team have said the same thing. Maybe they’re all conspiring.

He wasn't asked about anything negative so he didn't need to cover anything up. He was simply asked how often he was overridden by Pete, and he simply said maybe a handful of times. In other words, not much. Can't be more straight forward than that.

 

[Raifers]

He wasn't asked about anything negative so he didn't need to cover anything up. He was simply asked how often he was overridden by Pete, and he simply said maybe a handful of times. In other words, not much. Can't be more straight forward than that.

Unless I missed it, how do you know that the times he was overridden that PC did or did not royally screw the team over? Maybe he overruled JS and they got DK which is a good thing. Maybe he overruled a RW3 trade during the draft for any QOTF who is playing way better than Geno. In that case he screwed the team over. I still believe PC had a lot to do with poor trades and contracts.

I was done with PC years ago. Just poor decision making in crucial games sometimes. And yea I probably got what I asked for. And to me so far it’s a better record then what I feel we would have had with PC so that’s a good thing right?

The niners game, probably would have lost with PC.

The NYG game? Yea still woulda lost, disappointed that MM didn’t have the team playing better, but those are the gimme games from previous years that we never win. Maybe need new leadership in the locker room and that will take time (as alluded to by many others)

The Lions game? Actually I think PC woulda found a way to win that.

The Dolphins? Same result

The Patriots? Think we woulda lost that with PC

And the Broncos? Feel like we woulda lost with PC

So far me I got what I wished for alright. 1 game up by MM over PC

 

[Ozzy]

Though I am disappointed Seattle isn’t 6-0, I will still take Mac over Carroll as head coach.

At least with Mac, he’s inherited a team that is still 80 percent Carroll/Schneider’s product.

Give Mac another 2 or 3 drafts and the team should be all Mac.

I’m not surprised there are still a Carroll following here on dot net. You would think Carroll is a Messiah.

But yeah, Seattle 3-3 with Mac is still a better opportunity to get better if you give Mac at least 2 or 3 more draft classes.

And it’s a reasonable take.

He wasn't asked about anything negative so he didn't need to cover anything up. He was simply asked how often he was overridden by Pete, and he simply said maybe a handful of times. In other words, not much. Can't be more straight forward than that.

a handful of times can have disastrous results though. The scout leak pointed to Collier. Horrific pick. Anyway I don’t disagree, I don’t think Pete did it a ton but like Gem said it’s hard to imagine a head coach who also runs the whole organization isn’t taking some control of that process maybe more often than he should.

 

[GemCity]

He wasn't asked about anything negative so he didn't need to cover anything up. He was simply asked how often he was overridden by Pete, and he simply said maybe a handful of times. In other words, not much. Can't be more straight forward than that.

It’s quite possible that it was truly only a handful of times.

It’s also possible that it was a much greater number.

I doubt that PC and/or JS would ever disclose that.

We’re talking about a couple of guys that won the big one…damn near won it again…and stayed fairly competitive the duration they were together.

 

[Spin Doctor]

And it’s a reasonable take.

a handful of times can have disastrous results though. The scout leak pointed to Collier. Horrific pick. Anyway I don’t disagree, I don’t think Pete did it a ton but like Gem said it’s hard to imagine a head coach who also runs the whole organization isn’t taking some control of that process maybe more often than he should.

Also, to add further to this -- what would John Schneider have to gain by bashing Carroll and telling everyone the specifics? In addition to this, early picks definitely have Carroll all over them. Many of our picks back in early 2010s were players that Carroll had first hand experience with in college. Malcolm Smith was on USC, Thurmond, Golden Tate, Baldwin, Irvin, Browner, Sherman and a few others were all guys that Carroll had coached against, or had tried to recruit back when he was at USC.

I think it would be foolish to believe that Carroll didn't have his hands all over the Seahawks drafts in some way, shape or form. Even having a Carroll figure probably changes your draft strategy quite a bit -- even if he doesn't specifically intervene or veto. At the end of the day, Carroll was the one with the keys to the roster.

 

[hox]

Unless I missed it, how do you know that the times he was overridden that PC did or did not royally screw the team over? Maybe he overruled JS and they got DK which is a good thing. Maybe he overruled a RW3 trade during the draft for any QOTF who is playing way better than Geno. In that case he screwed the team over. I still believe PC had a lot to do with poor trades and contracts.

Correct, we don't know who was responsible for what pick - good or bad.

Maybe Collier was a PC pick. Maybe Eskridge was a JS pick. We just don't really know. We do know that JS undervalued guards, and that's clearly evident today.

 

[hox]

I think it would be foolish to believe that Carroll didn't have his hands all over the Seahawks drafts in some way, shape or form. Even having a Carroll figure probably changes your draft strategy quite a bit -- even if he doesn't specifically intervene or veto. At the end of the day, Carroll was the one with the keys to the roster.

Just because he had the keys, didn't mean he used them?

Point is - I'm sure Carroll had influence on the roster, but for people to believe JS had zero agency (and responsibility) is equally as foolish.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Just because he had the keys, didn't mean he used them?

Point is - I'm sure Carroll had influence on the roster, but for people to believe JS had zero agency (and responsibility) is equally as foolish.

I think JS and Carroll came to a consensus, but at the end of the day, Carroll had ultimate authority. If Carroll wanted something he could make it happen -- certainly a lot of those success stories I posted above had Carroll's finger prints on them. Carroll had a HUGE influence on the roster and the draft strategy. JS was hired because he worked well with Pete Carroll (it was even Carroll himself who hired him).

JS didn't have the same agency as most GM's do in the NFL. He was a willing party and he worked well with Pete, but it is pretty clear that Pete had a huge influence and he had ultimate authority.

 

[Rat]

I’m not surprised there are still a Carroll following here on dot net. You would think Carroll is a Messiah.

This has to be a joke. There are easily 25-30 posts on here ripping on Pete for every post expressing anything positive about his tenure.

 

[Ozzy]

Just because he had the keys, didn't mean he used them?

Point is - I'm sure Carroll had influence on the roster, but for people to believe JS had zero agency (and responsibility) is equally as foolish.

But no one said he had zero agency, not even remotely close to that.

 

[hox]

But no one said he had zero agency, not even remotely close to that.

Granted. It's more the idea the bad picks were due to Pete and JS had nothing to do with it. That's simply not true.

 

[King Dog]

I'm specifically talking to the fire Pete crowd, now I was all for some change, but it appears it was not the coach being the issue.
Most likely we would have the same record (or close) with Pete at the helm. Players that can't tackle like they have oil rubbed all over them. This team already looks like they checked out. Just seeing Geno and DK's body language tells me so.
It appears there will be some major changes to players in the near future, at least I hope so.
This was a shet show last night.

I only got half of what I wanted. I wanted John Schneider fired too!