Thoughts after rewatching Dallas preseason game - 1st half

Sports Hernia

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
39,793
Reaction score
468
Location
The pit
chris98251":wetn2all said:
The problem with the bubble screen as we run it is the WR takes a few steps back and is stationary when he receives the ball, the defense is already running that direction and the WR blockers are also stationary most times, the defense has the momentum going for them and blow up the blocks and run straight thru to the WR. He has to dodge and make the first guy miss most times and the second guy, that rarely happens, if it does he then can get some speed going and make some yardage, until the rest of the defense who now has time to get there traps him on the sidelines.
BINGO!!!!!
 

mrt144

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
4,065
Reaction score
0
Sports Hernia":u16zdyjg said:
chris98251":u16zdyjg said:
The problem with the bubble screen as we run it is the WR takes a few steps back and is stationary when he receives the ball, the defense is already running that direction and the WR blockers are also stationary most times, the defense has the momentum going for them and blow up the blocks and run straight thru to the WR. He has to dodge and make the first guy miss most times and the second guy, that rarely happens, if it does he then can get some speed going and make some yardage, until the rest of the defense who now has time to get there traps him on the sidelines.
BINGO!!!!!

I'd assume the rationale is ensuring completions, minimizing catastrophic mistakes and avoiding blocking downfield or OPI penalties.
 

MizzouHawkGal

New member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
0
Location
Kansas City, MO
mrt144":378axqyz said:
Sports Hernia":378axqyz said:
chris98251":378axqyz said:
The problem with the bubble screen as we run it is the WR takes a few steps back and is stationary when he receives the ball, the defense is already running that direction and the WR blockers are also stationary most times, the defense has the momentum going for them and blow up the blocks and run straight thru to the WR. He has to dodge and make the first guy miss most times and the second guy, that rarely happens, if it does he then can get some speed going and make some yardage, until the rest of the defense who now has time to get there traps him on the sidelines.
BINGO!!!!!

I'd assume the rationale is ensuring completions, minimizing mistakes and avoiding blocking downfield or OPI penalties.
Yes. But thankfully we actually have a decent OL for once. Wilson + an average OL....scary. Even more then Prescott with an awesome running back and elite OL. Hence the difference between good and elite. It's all about the quarterback not the OL.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
9,977
Reaction score
0
kearly":31h353eq said:
This was the tuneup game, it's the game where every team gives a little bit of a preview of how they are going to run things in the real games to come. Hopefully Seattle learns from this game, but given Bevell's long obsession with ineffective horizontal passing, I doubt it's a fluke.

I watched bits and pieces of three games yesterday and every single offense was beyond vanilla. The only one that wasn't was Indianapolis and that's because they are in absolute disarray and look shambolic on both sides of the ball. Luck was getting killed out there.

It's a tune-up game, but no teams actually set out to offer a preview of their game plan. I'll happily come back on here and admit I was wrong if they throw 2-3 bubble screens to Baldwin in week one -- but Seattle basically played a thoroughly uncomplicated basic game plan. I don't think there's any reason to rag on Bevell for what we saw in this pre-season game.
 

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
11,876
Reaction score
133
I'm incline to think that bubble screens help Russell Wilson get into a timing and rhythm passing mode to go along with his moments of improvisation. Getting the ball out quickly helps create hesitation in the pass rush. Getting the ball out quickly also makes those plays easier for receivers and linemen to do their jobs without incurring as many penalties ..... just my 2 cents.
 

FlyingGreg

Active member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
9,515
Reaction score
0
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado
theENGLISHseahawk":3vz5jkqc said:
kearly":3vz5jkqc said:
This was the tuneup game, it's the game where every team gives a little bit of a preview of how they are going to run things in the real games to come. Hopefully Seattle learns from this game, but given Bevell's long obsession with ineffective horizontal passing, I doubt it's a fluke.

I watched bits and pieces of three games yesterday and every single offense was beyond vanilla. The only one that wasn't was Indianapolis and that's because they are in absolute disarray and look shambolic on both sides of the ball. Luck was getting killed out there.

It's a tune-up game, but no teams actually set out to offer a preview of their game plan. I'll happily come back on here and admit I was wrong if they throw 2-3 bubble screens to Baldwin in week one -- but Seattle basically played a thoroughly uncomplicated basic game plan. I don't think there's any reason to rag on Bevell for what we saw in this pre-season game.

Agreed. I think the "tune-up" game is mostly a fan perception. I don't think teams change the way they approach pre-season week 3 just because it has a "tune-up" game label attached to it. Players don't suddenly play harder or try more because of the perception that it is somehow more meaningful.

"But starters play into the 3rd quarter!" Our offense played into the 3rd quarter vs Minnesota also, right?

In that light, that was not a regular season game plan we saw vs Dallas, on either side of the ball. There are parts of the offense and defense they are holding onto.

A key point: Prosise is our de facto 3rd down back. How come we didn't try one pass to him, screen or otherwise? My opinion is they want to keep him under wraps as long as possible.

We saw a lot of bubble screens not because Bevell is an idiot again, but because a lot of pages of his playbook were closed.
 

WindCityHawk

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
2,502
Reaction score
0
MontanaHawk05":e6s7gi6g said:
If Wilson weren't able to consistently bail out broken plays, I'm fairly sure Bevell would have been fired a while ago.

Bevell is absolutely riding Wilson's coattails. Wilson wouldn't have to be known for making magic out of broken plays if so many of his plays weren't broken.

Exhibit B: While our defensive coordinators are a revolving door of promotions, no one comes calling for Bevell. Other teams know who the real hero is here.
 

Seahawkfan80

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
10,121
Reaction score
11
FlyingGreg":3pkxksui said:
theENGLISHseahawk":3pkxksui said:
kearly":3pkxksui said:
This was the tuneup game, it's the game where every team gives a little bit of a preview of how they are going to run things in the real games to come. Hopefully Seattle learns from this game, but given Bevell's long obsession with ineffective horizontal passing, I doubt it's a fluke.

I watched bits and pieces of three games yesterday and every single offense was beyond vanilla. The only one that wasn't was Indianapolis and that's because they are in absolute disarray and look shambolic on both sides of the ball. Luck was getting killed out there.

It's a tune-up game, but no teams actually set out to offer a preview of their game plan. I'll happily come back on here and admit I was wrong if they throw 2-3 bubble screens to Baldwin in week one -- but Seattle basically played a thoroughly uncomplicated basic game plan. I don't think there's any reason to rag on Bevell for what we saw in this pre-season game.

Agreed. I think the "tune-up" game is mostly a fan perception. I don't think teams change the way they approach pre-season week 3 just because it has a "tune-up" game label attached to it. Players don't suddenly play harder or try more because of the perception that it is somehow more meaningful.

"But starters play into the 3rd quarter!" Our offense played into the 3rd quarter vs Minnesota also, right?

In that light, that was not a regular season game plan we saw vs Dallas, on either side of the ball. There are parts of the offense and defense they are holding onto.

A key point: Prosise is our de facto 3rd down back. How come we didn't try one pass to him, screen or otherwise? My opinion is they want to keep him under wraps as long as possible.

We saw a lot of bubble screens not because Bevell is an idiot again, but because a lot of pages of his playbook were closed.

I think the more vanilla we play in the preseason, the better to analyze what weaknesses we have and need to work on. Hence bubble screens and base running. Also Base Defense with minimal changes. Did see Sherman taking on a single WR on one game. Thought that was interesting. If the backups cant learn vanilla, then they cant learn neopolitan defenses.
 

MizzouHawkGal

New member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
0
Location
Kansas City, MO
Seahawkfan80":3pvwo6rt said:
FlyingGreg":3pvwo6rt said:
theENGLISHseahawk":3pvwo6rt said:
kearly":3pvwo6rt said:
This was the tuneup game, it's the game where every team gives a little bit of a preview of how they are going to run things in the real games to come. Hopefully Seattle learns from this game, but given Bevell's long obsession with ineffective horizontal passing, I doubt it's a fluke.

I watched bits and pieces of three games yesterday and every single offense was beyond vanilla. The only one that wasn't was Indianapolis and that's because they are in absolute disarray and look shambolic on both sides of the ball. Luck was getting killed out there.

It's a tune-up game, but no teams actually set out to offer a preview of their game plan. I'll happily come back on here and admit I was wrong if they throw 2-3 bubble screens to Baldwin in week one -- but Seattle basically played a thoroughly uncomplicated basic game plan. I don't think there's any reason to rag on Bevell for what we saw in this pre-season game.

Agreed. I think the "tune-up" game is mostly a fan perception. I don't think teams change the way they approach pre-season week 3 just because it has a "tune-up" game label attached to it. Players don't suddenly play harder or try more because of the perception that it is somehow more meaningful.

"But starters play into the 3rd quarter!" Our offense played into the 3rd quarter vs Minnesota also, right?

In that light, that was not a regular season game plan we saw vs Dallas, on either side of the ball. There are parts of the offense and defense they are holding onto.

A key point: Prosise is our de facto 3rd down back. How come we didn't try one pass to him, screen or otherwise? My opinion is they want to keep him under wraps as long as possible.

We saw a lot of bubble screens not because Bevell is an idiot again, but because a lot of pages of his playbook were closed.

I think the more vanilla we play in the preseason, the better to analyze what weaknesses we have and need to work on. Hence bubble screens and base running. Also Base Defense with minimal changes. Did see Sherman taking on a single WR on one game. Thought that was interesting. If the backups cant learn vanilla, then they cant learn neopolitan defenses.
Without vanilla there's no Neapolitan.... good observation actually.
 

MizzouHawkGal

New member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
0
Location
Kansas City, MO
WindCityHawk":1hk9uh3l said:
[quoteIf Wilson weren't able to consistently bail out broken plays, I'm fairly sure Bevell would have been fired a while ago.

Bevell is absolutely riding Wilson's coattails. Wilson wouldn't have to be known for making magic out of broken plays if so many of his plays weren't broken.

Exhibit B: While our defensive coordinators are a revolving door of promotions, no one comes calling for Bevell. Other teams know who the real hero is here.[/quote]
Give it a rest already. Wilson would do Wilson with Bevell or no Bevell. Just listen to what fans of other teams call him. Houdini to be exact in case you didn't know. That give you a clue about how he's actually perceived beyond the .Net alternate universe reality bubble?
 

sc85sis

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
7,483
Reaction score
91
Location
Houston Suburbs
I'm slightly concerned that we lack enough beef on the D line to compensate for teams with strong and fast O lines. Fortunately, lines like the one Dallas has aren't exactly common. I do think we could miss Bane at times this year.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
9,977
Reaction score
0
MizzouHawkGal":2t05o12z said:
Bevell is absolutely riding Wilson's coattails. Wilson wouldn't have to be known for making magic out of broken plays if so many of his plays weren't broken.

And people keep saying stuff like this, while totally ignoring the Head Coach constantly mentions (as he did again after this recent game against Dallas) that he wants his offense to be the best scrambling offense in the NFL.
 

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
11,876
Reaction score
133
And ....... there is also the constant reminder of the scramble drills they include "by design" in their weekly practices.

And ....... there is also the continuing interest in Trevone Boykin as the most recent QB addition that represents a preferred style "by design" at the quarterback position.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
9,977
Reaction score
0
Jville":1etzkgu7 said:
And ....... there is also the constant reminder of the scramble drills they include "by design" in their weekly practices.

And ....... there is also the continuing interest in Trevone Boykin as the most recent QB addition that represents a preferred style "by design" at the quarterback position.


NO IT IS BEVELL HE IZ RUINING EVERYTHING
 

hawksfansinceday1

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
24,628
Reaction score
0
Location
Vancouver, WA
theENGLISHseahawk":2cpya03m said:
kearly":2cpya03m said:
This was the tuneup game, it's the game where every team gives a little bit of a preview of how they are going to run things in the real games to come. Hopefully Seattle learns from this game, but given Bevell's long obsession with ineffective horizontal passing, I doubt it's a fluke.

I watched bits and pieces of three games yesterday and every single offense was beyond vanilla. The only one that wasn't was Indianapolis and that's because they are in absolute disarray and look shambolic on both sides of the ball. Luck was getting killed out there.

It's a tune-up game, but no teams actually set out to offer a preview of their game plan. I'll happily come back on here and admit I was wrong if they throw 2-3 bubble screens to Baldwin in week one -- but Seattle basically played a thoroughly uncomplicated basic game plan. I don't think there's any reason to rag on Bevell for what we saw in this pre-season game.
Hopefully no one has to hold you to that Rob.



Thanks for an excellent write-up (as always) Kip.
 

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
11,876
Reaction score
133
theENGLISHseahawk":8m5nn4vo said:
Jville":8m5nn4vo said:
And ....... there is also the constant reminder of the scramble drills they include "by design" in their weekly practices.

And ....... there is also the continuing interest in Trevone Boykin as the most recent QB addition that represents a preferred style "by design" at the quarterback position.


NO IT IS BEVELL HE IZ RUINING EVERYTHING
Of course he is...... selective listening and acknowledgement demands it! :229031_rolleyes:
 

WilsonMVP

New member
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
2,771
Reaction score
0
Jville":2awwst95 said:
I'm incline to think that bubble screens help Russell Wilson get into a timing and rhythm passing mode to go along with his moments of improvisation. Getting the ball out quickly helps create hesitation in the pass rush. Getting the ball out quickly also makes those plays easier for receivers and linemen to do their jobs without incurring as many penalties ..... just my 2 cents.


I actually dont mind the screens and short passes early in the game because for whatever reason Wilson always seems a bit off anyway. Most of the time though it seems they either result in 1-3 yards or a heavy loss. Rarely do they ever seem to payoff, but maybe thats not actually the truth and I just remember all the bad ones
 

mrt144

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
4,065
Reaction score
0
It's painful to see other teams run them better than we do when it's such a staple of our playbook.
 

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
11,876
Reaction score
133
WilsonMVP":180z05d7 said:
Jville":180z05d7 said:
I'm incline to think that bubble screens help Russell Wilson get into a timing and rhythm passing mode to go along with his moments of improvisation. Getting the ball out quickly helps create hesitation in the pass rush. Getting the ball out quickly also makes those plays easier for receivers and linemen to do their jobs without incurring as many penalties ..... just my 2 cents.


I actually dont mind the screens and short passes early in the game because for whatever reason Wilson always seems a bit off anyway. Most of the time though it seems they either result in 1-3 yards or a heavy loss. Rarely do they ever seem to payoff, but maybe thats not actually the truth and I just remember all the bad ones

Bevell and Russell, along with many analysts, talk about a play call that sets up a later play. None of the plays are called in isolation from one another. Getting quarterbacks into a rhythm is routinely mentioned. Some plays help in that regard by opening up later plays designed to attack other areas of the field. Play calling it a dynamic endeavor.

The opponent is going to win on some snaps. The goal is to win on the big plays. To push for and win the caustic differential.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
theENGLISHseahawk":igs7vwkf said:
kearly":igs7vwkf said:
This was the tuneup game, it's the game where every team gives a little bit of a preview of how they are going to run things in the real games to come. Hopefully Seattle learns from this game, but given Bevell's long obsession with ineffective horizontal passing, I doubt it's a fluke.

I watched bits and pieces of three games yesterday and every single offense was beyond vanilla. The only one that wasn't was Indianapolis and that's because they are in absolute disarray and look shambolic on both sides of the ball. Luck was getting killed out there.

It's a tune-up game, but no teams actually set out to offer a preview of their game plan. I'll happily come back on here and admit I was wrong if they throw 2-3 bubble screens to Baldwin in week one -- but Seattle basically played a thoroughly uncomplicated basic game plan. I don't think there's any reason to rag on Bevell for what we saw in this pre-season game.

Seattle went away from the spread and towards more 2 receivers sets which has continued a theme this preseason. Lots of I-formation stuff as well. It's vanilla, but it's also what Seattle has done a lot of the past 5 years, other than the second half of 2015 when Seattle really opened things up.

It's not an ideal style of offense for Wilson to be at his best, though obviously the running game is thriving. I just wish Bevell would rip the bubble screen out of his playbook completely, going back years, it's almost always a negative play.
 
Top