This place is toxic

[pittpnthrs]

Honest question...

Are you ok with getting another head coach as long as it means Pete Carroll is gone? To be honest I'm about there myself yet as after living through many jag coaches , it kinda scares me.

I keep thinking " this is the year" but looking at all the holes on both sides of the ball and the 10 years it took to get here . I'm pissed off. Very bad personell decisions, free agency and an unwillingness to adjust philosophy has me to a point of apathy .

Damn right we're toxic.

Yes, i'm ok with it. It might end up like Mora JR., but it might end up like McVay. I just know that it isn't working with what they have now.

 

[MORGULON]

Do you have any idea of how many scrub team owners that would give their left nut to have the W/L record that Seattle has enjoyed for the last 13 years or so?????
I know some of y'all don't G.A.F.
See, this is what pisses me off about the "Entitled Hawk Fans", it doesn't matter that the Seahawks are going through some sweeping changes in this Reload phase, they want their BINKY'S AND THEY WANT THEM NOW!!
Reloads aren't like opening a box of Instant Potato's.
I saw the REAL "Hard Times" back in the 70's, 80's & 90's where getting into the playoffs was a Pipe Dream.

Hahaha
I made a point and your post repeated it.
Do you know how long I've followed the Seahawks ? As long as you have so save the" Old timer" stuff .

I don't feel entitled. I want to win. Sorry this pisses you off.

 

[renofox]

Do you have any idea of how many scrub team owners that would give their left nut to have the W/L record that Seattle has enjoyed for the last 13 years or so?????
I know some of y'all don't G.A.F.
See, this is what pisses me off about the "Entitled Hawk Fans", it doesn't matter that the Seahawks are going through some sweeping changes in this Reload phase, they want their BINKY'S AND THEY WANT THEM NOW!!
Reloads aren't like opening a box of Instant Potato's.
I saw the REAL "Hard Times" back in the 70's, 80's & 90's where getting into the playoffs was a Pipe Dream.

We've been going through "reloads" for 9 frigging years and have yet to field a team that can compete in the playoffs.

How many more years shall we wait?

SERIOUSLY!!! How much longer. What about the fans calling for his head for the last 6+ years. If you say "Give PC 4 more years to field a competitive team", your telling these fans to wait a decade. Is that reasonable?

The product is now verging on the unwatchable. How long til we should be given some enjoyable entertainment?

HOW MUCH LONGER?!?!?

 

[renofox]

Yes, i'm ok with it. It might end up like Mora JR., but it might end up like McVay. I just know that it isn't working with what they have now.

Yes. But cycling through Mora to PC gave us a SB win 4 years later. I'm willing to cycle through however many shit coaches it takes to find one that actually puts a decent product on the field.

 

[NJlargent]

Yes, i'm ok with it. It might end up like Mora JR., but it might end up like McVay. I just know that it isn't working with what they have now.

What's interesting is we revert back to a SB win that is aging rapidly and then "general success" since that time as evidence that Carroll is not as bad as the anti-Carroll crowd makes him out to be and we will be sorry once he leaves.

However, since that SB and the Play the following year, we have won playoff games against 3 teams that had no business being in the payoffs and significant injuries. During that time, the Niners may not have had frequent playoff trips and stunk for several years, but they have appeared in a SB recently and a NFCC game and are probable favorites to win the Owl this year. We, on the other hand, have slowly regressed and have been pretenders for a long time. This year we aren't even pretending. So I would argue the "general success" of the Niners blows Carroll's general success out of the water.

You can point to fortunate draft picks and the luxury of many top 5 picks the Niners had over the years (although Carroll would have traded down anyway and botched those drafts up) but then look at the Eagles. They won the Owl in 2017. Then became irrelevant in 18,19 and 20 (lost wildcard game to us in 19 I think and wildcard game in 18 too I think). They sucked in 2020 but they didn't point to the 2017 trophy (after waiting over 50 years) and argue general success with 2 wildcard losses. Instead they fired Doug Pederson and guess what? They became immediately relevant again and should have won the Owl last year and have a legit shot this year. So the Eagles won an Owl, became irrelevant and are back to being legit contenders, all while we pointed at the "general success" of Carroll but have remained irrelevant and regressed while other teams have improved.

Carroll is going nowhere because of ownership. I suspect he's trying to get his kid situated to take over and then leave us in shambles like he did USC.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Carroll is going nowhere because of ownership. I suspect he's trying to get his kid situated to take over and then leave us in shambles like he did USC.

If this actually happens i'm going to have to take a step back and reevaluate my loyalty to this team.

 

[MORGULON]

Pete jr ? Hell no.

 

[LTH]

I suspect he's trying to get his kid situated to take over and then leave us in shambles like he did USC.

Why would you suspect that? Based off of what? LOL

 

[scutterhawk]

Scutter, I am so sorry for your loss. That's so much bigger than silly football. I have no words. Peace to you my friend.

Appreciated, Thank you.

 

[renofox]

If this actually happens i'm going to have to take a step back and reevaluate my loyalty to this team.

Please don't do that. The Seahawks are an organization above and beyond its current owner and management.

Someday they'll be gone, but the Seahawks will endure.

I view those currently in charge as enemies trying to destroy my Seahawks, but will stick with the Seahawks until the trash is taken out and the team comes back to life.

 

[scutterhawk]

We've been going through "reloads" for 9 frigging years and have yet to field a team that can compete in the playoffs.

How many more years shall we wait?

SERIOUSLY!!! How much longer. What about the fans calling for his head for the last 6+ years. If you say "Give PC 4 more years to field a competitive team", your telling these fans to wait a decade. Is that reasonable?

The product is now verging on the unwatchable. How long til we should be given some enjoyable entertainment?

HOW MUCH LONGER?!?!?

Until Pete decides to retire.
The League is Evolving, and then Devolving, rules are being written & rewritten, Referees are throwing flags, and then CHANGING THEIR MINDS & picking them up, THESE AREN'T ONE-OFF INCIDENTS.
How about we do away with Kickoffs?
Pete's biggest MISTAKE? = Doting & hanging on to Russell Wilson 5 years past his Pull Date.
It's going on TWO "Frigging Years" since parting ways with Russell 'the malcontent' Wilson, and changes of that magnitude don't show progression as fast as y'all want.
Again, Even if changes aren't happening as fast as you or I would like, I'm okay with Pete staying on until he retires or feels like he can no longer Coach players to the next level.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Please don't do that. The Seahawks are an organization above and beyond its current owner and management.

Someday they'll be gone, but the Seahawks will endure.

I view those currently in charge as enemies trying to destroy my Seahawks, but will stick with the Seahawks until the trash is taken out and the team comes back to life.

I don't even know what to say.

Firstly, the organization *is* mainly the owner and management. That's why the organization has endured, and it's largely why they did a 180 from being a pathetic franchise to one that is stable and solid in most every way.

Secondly, really? We've progressed from simply thinking that the current leadership is the right regime to move forward with to viewing them as enemies trying to destroy the Seahawks?

What exactly would their motive be? Why are they still winning half their games at their worst? Why are they doing such a bad job of destroying the Seahawks if they want to destroy the Seahawks?

I'm sorry. I don't want to be condescending, but what the hell? We're really calling this active sabotage now?

What happens when the next regime comes in and doesn't win 3 Super Bowls immediately? Are those deep-state false-flag losses to put us in a bad mood, or is it simply the reality of being in a league where 31 other teams also want to win?

Why can't we be reasonable anymore? 3 years of roughly .500 ball does this to us? If we had to endure the seasons 24 of the other teams in the league have recently, I'm convinced some of us would be terrorists at this point.

 

[Ozzy]

View attachment 62329
I don't even know what to say.

Firstly, the organization *is* mainly the owner and management. That's why the organization has endured, and it's largely why they did a 180 from being a pathetic franchise to one that is stable and solid in most every way.

Secondly, really? We've progressed from simply thinking that the current leadership is the right regime to move forward with to viewing them as enemies trying to destroy the Seahawks?

What exactly would their motive be? Why are they still winning half their games at their worst? Why are they doing such a bad job of destroying the Seahawks if they want to destroy the Seahawks?

I'm sorry. I don't want to be condescending, but what the hell? We're really calling this active sabotage now?

What happens when the next regime comes in and doesn't win 3 Super Bowls immediately? Are those deep-state false-flag losses to put us in a bad mood, or is it simply the reality of being in a league where 31 other teams also want to win?

Why can't we be reasonable anymore? 3 years of roughly .500 ball does this to us? If we had to endure the seasons 24 of the other teams in the league have recently, I'm convinced some of us would be terrorists at this point.

Again your last sentence is the only one I have a problem with. You frame it as "if anyone is ready for a change they're unreasonable" It's ok to think it might be time for a coaching change. that doesn't mean those people are crazy, stupid etc. I do agree that some of the extreme language is goofy and unreasonable but thinking a coaching change at this point might be the best alternative? Nah and its a strawman to broad brush people who think that against the backdrop that your stance is the only reasonable one.


I think it's time for a change but I also understand the other side of it and people being hesitant.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Again your last sentence is the only one I have a problem with. You frame it as "if anyone is ready for a change they're unreasonable" It's ok to think it might be time for a coaching change. that doesn't mean those people are crazy, stupid etc. I do agree that some of the extreme language is goofy and unreasonable but thinking a coaching change at this point might be the best alternative? Nah and its a strawman to broad brush people who think that against the backdrop that your stance is the only reasonable one.


I think it's time for a change but I also understand the other side of it and people being hesitant.

I don't think people ready for a change are eapecially unreasonable. I'm saying that this level of extremely mild failure does not warrant going off of the absolute deep end into conspiratorial war-like rhetoric that frames our own organization as enemy combatants.

And if it does warrant that response, then unfortunately, those individuals are likely going to be wanting to bomb their own team HQ in perpetuity.

 

[renofox]

Firstly, the organization *is* mainly the owner and management. That's why the organization has endured, and it's largely why they did a 180 from being a pathetic franchise to one that is stable and solid in most every way.

Is Disney more Bob Iger & Co. Than Walt Disney? Are Zorn, Kraig, Largent, Walt, Cortez, Easley, et al not a part of who the Seahawks are? Are not the fans part of the Seahawks no matter who the current ownership and management is? If you want to take a capitalist materialistic approach then you are technically correct. I prefer to look at factors above and beyond that approach.

I'll agree with you that the recent change of ownership has helped turn this team around. I think we only disagree in the direction.

Secondly, really? We've progressed from simply thinking that the current leadership is the right regime to move forward with to viewing them as enemies trying to destroy the Seahawks?

What exactly would their motive be? Why are they still winning half their games at their worst? Why are they doing such a bad job of destroying the Seahawks if they want to destroy the Seahawks?

I'm sorry. I don't want to be condescending, but what the hell? We're really calling this active sabotage now?

Destroying and sabotage are two different things.

PC's refusal to evolve and his constant trading away the future to win just enough games each year to deflect criticism and keep his job is part of destroying this team. His incompetence in assembling a decent coaching staff is another. There is more, but those two will suffice as expository.

Why? Keep the gravy train rolling, baby! Rack up enough wins each year to get that ego boost from the HOF induction and make sure his name is on the screen in future broadcasts. Pad the bank account. Again, there's more but those will suffice.

I could speculate about JA's motivations, but I won't. I will say that she appears to be making her decisions based on many of the same motivations that drive PC.

And an FYI; Condescending is when you're right. When you're not, it's arrogance. When it's an opinion, which is neither, arrogance is the default.

What happens when the next regime comes in and doesn't win 3 Super Bowls immediately? Are those deep-state false-flag losses to put us in a bad mood, or is it simply the reality of being in a league where 31 other teams also want to win?

Why can't we be reasonable anymore? 3 years of roughly .500 ball does this to us? If we had to endure the seasons 24 of the other teams in the league have recently, I'm convinced some of us would be terrorists at this point.

But it's not been 3 years. It's going on a decade of the same pattern.

That is enough time to see the pattern will not change. It's time to break the cycle of mediocrity and try something new.

If it doesn't work? Like Mora? Try again. It's not really all that complicated. Anything is better than being stuck with no realistic hope of getting better.

I'll ignore your multiple attempts to insert your political views except for this:

Those who equate opinions with physical violence tend to come from an ideological cult with which I strongly disagree. Especially because they then try to justify violence as free speech. Loathsome.

 

[Ozzy]

I don't think people ready for a change are eapecially unreasonable. I'm saying that this level of extremely mild failure does not warrant going off of the absolute deep end into conspiratorial war-like rhetoric that frames our own organization as enemy combatants.

And if it does warrant that response, then unfortunately, those individuals are likely going to be wanting to bomb their own team HQ in perpetuity.

Two playoff wins and both are when the opposing teams Quarerback got hurt isn’t all that mild though? Most teams have done better than that?

 

[ZagHawk]

Maybe it would be easier if one didn't expect the rest of the world to think exactly like oneself?

Mouthing "tolerance" while expecting uniformity of thought is a widespread mental disorder.

Accepting that other people differ in thought and expression and saying "whatever" has the advantage of removing a lot of stress from one's life.

Honestly, it's just about 3-4 posters who believe if you don't have blue/green glasses on at all times you're not a fan and then they do passive aggressive stuff like laugh emoji response if you have anything remotely critical/negative to write about the team.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Two playoff wins and both are when the opposing teams Quarerback got hurt isn’t all that mild though? Most teams have done better than that?

Only 9 teams have won more playoff games than Seattle since 2015. Most, in fact, have not done better than that.

Only 4 teams have won more games in general sense than Seattle since 2015.

I don't want to dissuade anyone who wants change despite those facts. I just want at least some of us to remain rational instead of reverting to tribalism.



Yes, the past seasons have been disappointing in an overall sense.

No, it doesn't mean that things can't change.

Yes, many others teams are better currently.

No, we are not worse off than most other franchises. Not even close.

Yes, the team is 6-6 and on a losing streak, and that hurts.

No, team management is not actively destroying the Seahawks out of malice.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Honestly, it's just about 3-4 posters who believe if you don't have blue/green glasses on at all times you're not a fan and then they do passive aggressive stuff like laugh emoji response if you have anything remotely critical/negative to write about the team.

They're just as annoying as the haters. This weird polarization where nobody is remotely in the middle is the issue. There is a lot of nuance to the position the franchise is in, and the largest camps are "Everything is fine!" vs. "I hope the front office and coaching staff gets thrown into a volcano." Neither are rational or correct.

It's hard to talk meat-and-potatoes football when there's so much outsized emotion dictating everything we think.

 

[Ozzy]

Only 9 teams have won more playoff games than Seattle since 2015. Most, in fact, have not done better than that.

Only 4 teams have won more games in general sense than Seattle since 2015.

I don't want to dissuade anyone who wants change despite those facts. I just want at least some of us to remain rational instead of reverting to tribalism.



Yes, the past seasons have been disappointing in an overall sense.

No, it doesn't mean that things can't change.

Yes, many others teams are better currently.

No, we are not worse off than most other franchises. Not even close.

Yes, the team is 6-6 and on a losing streak, and that hurts.

No, team management is not actively destroying the Seahawks out of malice.

That’s a third of the league and you’re using a part of the super team in that arbitrary year. Why not use 2017? It gets even worse. I don’t think Pete is trying to destroy the team out of malice so not sure why you said that. I think Pete is working his ass off to make this team better and doing the best he can. It just has been a mixed bag of results