This ain't your Holmgrens Seahawks

[seabowl]

One thing I remember when Holmgren was the coach of the Hawks was how few penalties the team was assessed. This year alone we have 3 players that rank in the top 9 in the league (okung 2, giacomini 4, Wilson 9). Pete has got to get this team under control if we are going to make a run. Too many times this year penalties have cost us and if it continues it will eventually cost us the season. A good first step was when he sat Giacomini. This kind of punishment needs to continue to right the ship. Anyone else feel this too?

 

[HawkFan72]

There has to be a balance. Holmgren's teams had very few penalties, but along with that came the "soft" label. Because the Seahawks weren't getting in guy's faces and punching them in the mouth.

If guys are being more intimidating physically, then there will be more penalties. It is just unavoidable. But we are past the line of what is acceptable and it needs to be reigned in a bit.

There has to be a balance.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

There has to be a balance. Holmgren's teams had very few penalties, but along with that came the "soft" label. Because the Seahawks weren't getting in guy's faces and punching them in the mouth.

If guys are being more intimidating physically, then there will be more penalties. It is just unavoidable. But we are past the line of what is acceptable and it needs to be reigned in a bit.

There has to be a balance.

Good post. Concur 100%.

 

[CANHawk]

There has to be a balance. Holmgren's teams had very few penalties, but along with that came the "soft" label. Because the Seahawks weren't getting in guy's faces and punching them in the mouth.

If guys are being more intimidating physically, then there will be more penalties. It is just unavoidable. But we are past the line of what is acceptable and it needs to be reigned in a bit.

There has to be a balance.

Absolutely this. To paraphrase an old racing adage; there's a fine line between fast and out of control. To use an old skiing adage; if you don't wipe out now and then, you aren't trying hard enough.

We play a very hard nosed, smash mouth style nowdays so penalties are going to be an unfortunate byproduct of that sometimes as we push the envelope. The key is to keep guys like Breno playing mean and just on the edge of out of control, but within the rules. Because if we let him continue carrying on like he has been, he could easily turn into another Richie Incognito (and that doesn't help anyone).

 

[VHawk]

Holmgren could have never drafted/acquired these players either.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's definitely a mirror of coaching style and player acquisition.

Holmgren was a rigid discipline fist kind of coach that liked to play more finesse on both sides of the ball, so that's how his team played. Carroll wanted a nasty physical defense, and a nasty physical offensive line. Carroll also runs a loose practice, so we're seeing the result of all these things.

With me, I can forgive the defense picking up a personal foul penalty for being too aggressive, because they've backed it up by being the #1 defense in the league. You can't say the same for the same stupid offensive penalties. This offense is not good enough to overcome personal foul penalties yet.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

There has to be a balance. Holmgren's teams had very few penalties, but along with that came the "soft" label.

Nobody was complaining about that in 2005.

 

[HawkFan72]

There has to be a balance. Holmgren's teams had very few penalties, but along with that came the "soft" label.

Nobody was complaining about that in 2005.

Nope, nobody here anyway. But it was said during that season regardless, and we saw the truth in it during the years before and after.

 

[chris98251]

We frequently had talked about wanting a more aggressive defense and about having a team that would punch you in the mouth. I remember several threads that came up about how we were perceived as the choir boys of the NFL and that you could kick our ass and we would take it and ask forgiveness on Monday for your soul.

Several times old farts would lament the days of Easley and our defense.

We could have whole multi page threads about Alexander and how he would fall down before contact etc and not show any tough running unless it was a touchdown inside the 10 yard line.

 

[drdiags]

Man I miss Easley. Ha ha ... He said farts.

 

[Hasselbeck]

"Soft" or not, Holmgren got them to a Super Bowl - of which they should have probably won.

I love the attitude of our defense, but the stupid penalties have got to stop.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Holmgren could have never drafted/acquired these players either.

Probably not.. but in 2005, we were 1st in offense and 7th on defense.

Compare that now to 28th on offense and 2nd on defense.

I'd say Holmgren did ok.

 

[Largent80]

Holmgren could have never drafted/acquired these players either.

Probably not.. but in 2005, we were 1st in offense and 7th on defense.

Compare that now to 28th on offense and 2nd on defense.

I'd say Holmgren did ok.

Who cares. That is in the past and we have a young offense, we are improving weekly and who is to say where we will end up this year?

 

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

And one thing that's happening is that the Hawks are picking up the label of "penalty-prone" and it's beginning to stick. The natural result is that refs will look just a little bit closer at whatever the Hawks do. Giacomini has already felt the effects of this and maybe Okung has as well. Once they're looking at you harder than they're looking at the other guy, they WILL find stuff.

 

[Navyhawkfan187]

Most of Okung's stuff was false starts playing against Arizona where he banged his knee a bit and was trying to over compensate and jumped.... a lot....

 

[scutterhawk]

There has to be a balance. Holmgren's teams had very few penalties, but along with that came the "soft" label.

Nobody was complaining about that in 2005.

The Stealers were'nt considered "Soft" they were perceived the better team because they were smashmouth on BOTH sides of the ball, and more than once, they were bestowed the Lombardi because of it
Our Defense is getting a lot fewer penalties than last Year, and now the Offense is sporting a Rook that will get better, and Cable will fine tune the O-line to strike that ballance we need to take us to the next level.
The 49rs Defense kept their Offense in contention, and we will get there when Wilson gets in sync,,,Smith didn't get IT for several years, let's just hope that Wilson finds his groove this Season.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And one thing that's happening is that the Hawks are picking up the label of "penalty-prone" and it's beginning to stick. The natural result is that refs will look just a little bit closer at whatever the Hawks do. Giacomini has already felt the effects of this and maybe Okung has as well. Once they're looking at you harder than they're looking at the other guy, they WILL find stuff.

I'm actually worried about the defensive penalties on Sunday. It's no secret that the league's golden child is Brady, and any hit that's even close to late is going to be called. That goes for holding his precious receivers.

It's gonna be a long day for us if the refs call a bunch of borderline defensive penalties on us that extend drives for the Pats.

 

[scutterhawk]

Holmgren could have never drafted/acquired these players either.

Probably not.. but in 2005, we were 1st in offense and 7th on defense.

Compare that now to 28th on offense and 2nd on defense.

I'd say Holmgren did ok.

1st in Offense, but not JUST because of Hasselbeck, Mack Strong, Alexanders 1,880 yards, O-linemen including future HOF Walter Jones+ Steve Hutchinson, Rob Tobeck, Grey and considered the ONLY weak link Locklear had a big hand in getting us that label.
Having the # 1 Offense didn't get us the Lombardi either,,The Stealers were considered the better Defense ,and as we've all parroted over the years, "Defense Wins Championships"

 

[CANHawk]

Holmgren could have never drafted/acquired these players either.

Probably not.. but in 2005, we were 1st in offense and 7th on defense.

Compare that now to 28th on offense and 2nd on defense.

I'd say Holmgren did ok.

1st in Offense, but not JUST because of Hasselbeck, Mack Strong, Alexanders 1,880 yards, O-linemen including future HOF Walter Jones+ Steve Hutchinson, Rob Tobeck, Grey and considered the ONLY weak link Locklear had a big hand in getting us that label.
Having the # 1 Offense didn't get us the Lombardi either,,The Stealers were considered the better Defense ,and as we've all parroted over the years, "Defense Wins Championships"

I don't think that 05 defense gets enough credit for what they did that year, but they also had the tremendous bennefit of having an offense that ate clock and kept their opponents offenses off the field (and you can't put up stats if you can't get in the game after all).

That's what is really impressive about our current #1 ranked defense; it feels like the O kicks out a half dozen 3 & outs a game, yet the D STILL puts up the numbers they do. That's super impressive.

 

[Starrman44]

Yep, the penalties are frustrating. I don't mind seeing aggressive penalties from time to time, but the stupid, mindless penalties are another thing.

When the play is on the other side, just be disciplined and don't bring it back on something stupid. Russell Wilson has just got to get to the point where there are no Delay of Game calls. I hate Delay of Game. If it's the coaches not getting the call in quick enough, it should be addressed. It should only take a week to fix it. Watching a 3rd and 1 turn into a 3rd and 6 due to Delay of Game is frustrating.

I agree with experience Russell Wilson will get past that. I didn't realize he had so many penalties, goodness!!

I honestly don't care about the stuff on Okung. He seems to have settled in. It also seems that they give certain D-Lineman and linebackers (DWare especially) a chance to get a jump. When you are playing a fast guy, that's got to get your internal clock twitching a little bit...