The younger generation doesn’t understand how good we had it…

[Parallax]

Fair enough, I was speaking more towards vulgarity as a whole rather than the aggression that can be associated with it.

For example, if a player ducks away from making a tackle, I'm going to say it was some pussy shit.

Simply calling it what it is, not an attack on the player as a person... If that makes sense.

EDIT: that passive aggressiveness is definitely a part of why people being so outspoken against vulgarity bothers me though, strong "beneath me" smug vibes

I hear ya. Like I said, I'm from New York so I like direct. Here in the PNW, people tend to be very nice at the surface but there can be a lot moving just beneath, and then a lot of distance. That's not my gig. I try to keep my language clean but I prefer it when people say what's on their mind and I try to be pretty transparent too. Which doesn't mean rude. I sometimes wonder if many Seattle folks don't understand that direct doesn't have to mean impolite. One can speak truthfully and politely at the same time. New Yorkers were good at being direct but not so skilled at polite. Seattle's the opposite.

 

[bigcc]

I hear ya. Like I said, I'm from New York so I like direct. Here in the PNW, people tend to be very nice at the surface but there can be a lot moving just beneath, and then a lot of distance. That's not my gig. I try to keep my language clean but I prefer it when people say what's on their mind and I try to be pretty transparent too. Which doesn't mean rude. I sometimes wonder if many Seattle folks don't understand that direct doesn't have to mean impolite. One can speak truthfully and politely at the same time. New Yorkers were good at being direct but not so skilled at polite. Seattle's the opposite.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not, but there's actually a term for what you're describing, so it's certainly not just you that sees it.

The Seattle freeze

Seattle Freeze - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A lot of parallel to your experience lol, enough to an entire Wikipedia entry

 

[Parallax]

I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not, but there's actually a term for what you're describing, so it's certainly not just you that sees it.

The Seattle freeze

Seattle Freeze - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A lot of parallel to your experience lol, enough to an entire Wikipedia entry

Yes, I've lived in Portland, Seattle and Bellingham. All share this feature. I've been in Bellingham now since 2010. I have a couple of good friends here but one moved up from Seattle and I've known her for more than 30 years. The other I made in the last few years.

It's a strange thing because I've met many people I like and my sense is that they like me too. I also sense that people's dance card tends to be full. The culture of the region doesn't encourage people to make new connections or even socialize much outside of work.

New York was different in that it could seem cold on the outside. But once you connected with people, they became much warmer and friendlier. It was also a more expressive culture. It was easier to tell when someone liked you or when they didn't.

Of course I've been out of New York for years now so many it's not like that anymore. Or maybe not as much. Our national culture seems to homogenize over time as, to an extent, world culture does too. The aspects of New York culture that I liked least -- especially the emphasis on money uber alles -- seems to have infected a lot of other places.

 

[bileever]

I hated everything about the Ken Behring era. I even followed the Chiefs (didn't become a fan but watched their games when it was on TV) one year when Dave Krieg went there in 1992 because I had had it with the Behring and his shenanigans. That 1992 team, which finished 2-14 was called the worst team in NFL history by Football Outsiders.

 

[Parallax]

I hated everything about the Ken Behring era. I even followed the Chiefs (didn't become a fan but watched their games when it was on TV) one year when Dave Krieg went there in 1992 because I had had it with the Behring and his shenanigans. That 1992 team, which finished 2-14 was called the worst team in NFL history by Football Outsiders.

Yeah, those were some miserable years. Talk about stuck in the dumps with no way out. Worse than our recent experience getting stuck in purgatory.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

For God's sake, let the dude have his opinion.

He can and he can get blasted for it.

 

[DirectMessage]

He can and he can get blasted for it.

The sad part is that some posters are disingenuous in going after me, tbh. Legitimately I found the brand of football in the 80's with Kreig and Larget fun to watch, no matter how many times the ball slipped out of Kreig's tiny hands. . I loved how bltizes and hitting the QB could alter the game. The Holmgren years with his verison of the west coast system was exciting and new for the hawks. Even during the 2-14 season we had Tez being double and tripled teamed, I believe. Which was amazing wataching. The legendary villains like Elway and Okoye shaped my memories of the Hawks. It's just my opinion that the hawks were more fun to watch in the olds days , based off foggy memories which can't be proven or disproven as factual, tbh. Which is why some posters have to get personal in the attacks. Whatever. When I say Peteball is boring, I didn't claim that Pete was unsuccessful as the Seahawks coach. That would be crazy. Some people love the game and watching it and the intricacies of the scheming like the Patriots during their run, no matter the record. It's crazy the aggressiveness some posters are to label "wrong think" or shape the conversations to only their narrative. So PNW...

 

[Maelstrom787]

The Seahawks were at least fun to watch in those days. Pete's 1920's brand of football is boring to watch, no matter how much success you have.

Which part of Seahawks football was more 1920s brand? The higher than average rate of passing or the massive prototype defensive backs?

 

[DirectMessage]

Which part of Seahawks football was more 1920s brand? The higher than average rate of passing or the massive prototype defensive backs?

Watch the Rams, 49ers, Pats, and the Cheifs to a lesser degree. Can anyone call the Seahawks a modern offense compared to these guys?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Watch the Rams, 49ers, Pats, and the Cheifs to a lesser degree. Can anyone call the Seahawks a modern offense compared to these guys?

The Pats? There is nothing overly modern about the Pats offense. Bill kinda wasn't known for the whole modern offense thing.

The Rams and 49ers are fair enough, but they're also running some throwback stuff. They both rush more frequently than expectation and the 49ers line up in a throwback 21 personnel formation like half of their snaps. Their snap motion% is higher than Seattle's, but Seattle was also about top 10 this past year in snap motion%.

The Chiefs are Reid-tree and not particularly modern in nature. They just line up and beat you. No real gimmicks, low motion usage.

The ancient throwback 1920's Peteball trope just isn't backed up with what had been occurring on the field for years. It was a holdover narrative from a decade ago that wouldn't die. They could've pinned peacock feathers on the asses of the uniforms, had a 100% snap motion rate, and lined up two quarterbacks. The popular narrative would still be "haha those old Seahawks and their run-the-ball mentality."

 

[DirectMessage]

The Pats? There is nothing overly modern about the Pats offense. Bill kinda wasn't known for the whole modern offense thing.

The Rams and 49ers are fair enough, but they're also running some throwback stuff. They both rush more frequently than expectation and the 49ers line up in a throwback 21 personnel formation like half of their snaps. Their snap motion% is higher than Seattle's, but Seattle was also about top 10 this past year in snap motion%.

The Chiefs are Reid-tree and not particularly modern in nature. They just line up and beat you. No real gimmicks, low motion usage.

The ancient throwback 1920's Peteball trope just isn't backed up with what had been occurring on the field for years. It was a holdover narrative from a decade ago that wouldn't die. They could've pinned peacock feathers on the asses of the uniforms, had a 100% snap motion rate, and lined up two quarterbacks. The popular narrative would still be "haha those old Seahawks and their run-the-ball mentality."

Fair enough. I really hope the Seahawks emulate the Patriots during their runs. With their system they could find these sneaky fast high motor guys the league called garbage and turn them into winning superstars. Most of the teams I mentioned are kind of a variation of that philosophy. I get that the 49ers brought in a superstar rb, and the Rams brought in a superstar qb, tbf. These garbage guys were cheap and fit the system. I don't think the combine monster that the Hawks have are necessarily the way forward for the Hawks, IMHO.

 

[Parallax]

The sad part is that some posters are disingenuous in going after me, tbh. Legitimately I found the brand of football in the 80's with Kreig and Larget fun to watch, no matter how many times the ball slipped out of Kreig's tiny hands. . I loved how bltizes and hitting the QB could alter the game. The Holmgren years with his verison of the west coast system was exciting and new for the hawks. Even during the 2-14 season we had Tez being double and tripled teamed, I believe. Which was amazing wataching. The legendary villains like Elway and Okoye shaped my memories of the Hawks. It's just my opinion that the hawks were more fun to watch in the olds days , based off foggy memories which can't be proven or disproven as factual, tbh. Which is why some posters have to get personal in the attacks. Whatever. When I say Peteball is boring, I didn't claim that Pete was unsuccessful as the Seahawks coach. That would be crazy. Some people love the game and watching it and the intricacies of the scheming like the Patriots during their run, no matter the record. It's crazy the aggressiveness some posters are to label "wrong think" or shape the conversations to only their narrative. So PNW...

You sum up my perspective well. A diversity of opinions is a good thing. There's a richness when we see things differently. Then we can learn from each other.

I don't know why some seem to feel threatened by opinions different from their own. I don't get the need to call others out as "wrong" or deficient. That sort of behavior detracts from the pleasant experience of conversing with other fans, all of us pulling for the same team. We've chosen to be part of this tribe so why not act like it. We can be brothers and sisters here or we act like jerks. It seems a silly waste of an opportunity to have a community when we call each other out needlessly.

So if anyone catches me calling others out, feel free to gently remind me of what I wrote here now. My goal is to approach differences of opinion with curiosity and openness rather than condemnation. Always.

 

[bigcc]

You sum up my perspective well. A diversity of opinions is a good thing. There's a richness when we see things differently. Then we can learn from each other.

I don't know why some seem to feel threatened by opinions different from their own. I don't get the need to call others out as "wrong" or deficient. That sort of behavior detracts from the pleasant experience of conversing with other fans, all of us pulling for the same team. We've chosen to be part of this tribe so why not act like it. We can be brothers and sisters here or we act like jerks. It seems a silly waste of an opportunity to have a community when we call each other out needlessly.

So if anyone catches me calling others out, feel free to gently remind me of what I wrote here now. My goal is to approach differences of opinion with curiosity and openness rather than condemnation. Always.

It's worth remembering that

It's a point in the offseason where there isn't much happening to discuss

And more importantly

We're shifting into an entirely new program across the board, after having pretty much the same one for just shy of 15 years. People are going to have strong opinions in moments of turmoil like this that we haven't experienced in either a long time like us, or ever for younger fans.

I expect hostility to die down significantly once we move on to reactions, opposed to speculation.... If that makes sense

 

[Parallax]

It's worth remembering that

It's a point in the offseason where there isn't much happening to discuss

And more importantly

We're shifting into an entirely new program across the board, after having pretty much the same one for just shy of 15 years. People are going to have strong opinions in moments of turmoil like this that we haven't experienced in either a long time like us, or ever for younger fans.

I expect hostility to die down significantly once we move on to reactions, opposed to speculation.... If that makes sense

I wouldn't be surprised. The underlying issue is that people react to their ideas being challenged as if they're being physically threatened. Which is what makes political discussions so fraught. The amygdala, a structure in the brain, reacts as though we're being threatened, as if there were a wild animal ready to lunge. We evolved in very different circumstances, so we react as if our lives were in danger even though we're 100% safe, sitting behind computer terminals with zero threat to our safety.

 

[bigcc]

I wouldn't be surprised. The underlying issue is that people react to their ideas being challenged as if they're being physically threatened. Which is what makes political discussions so fraught. The amygdala, a structure in the brain, reacts as though we're being threatened, as if there were a wild animal ready to lunge. We evolved in very different circumstances, so we react as if our lives were in danger even though we're 100% safe, sitting behind computer terminals with zero threat to our safety.

Part of the nature of online discussion.

Amygdala picks up heavily on verbal/visual tone and body language when speaking in person

The same doesn't exist in online discourse, which while some people are dicks because they don't fear physical response, I think not being able to pick up on those subtle cues that everyone does without thinking

Things like sarcasm and humor can be difficult to convey, it's a big reason people "lol" has nearly become a full punctuation

 

[Parallax]

Part of the nature of online discussion.

Amygdala picks up heavily on verbal/visual tone and body language when speaking in person

The same doesn't exist in online discourse, which while some people are dicks because they don't fear physical response, I think not being able to pick up on those subtle cues that everyone does without thinking

Things like sarcasm and humor can be difficult to convey, it's a big reason people "lol" has nearly become a full punctuation

I'm sure you're right. In addition, there's something to not seeing someone as a person with a face and a real name. In person, there's a sense of common humanity. We wouldn't typically insult someone. Doing online doesn't feel as real. It doesn't feel like there's a human being on the other side with legitimate needs and real feelings.

I used to think people were at their worst in cars. Relating to each other as if we were the machines we drive. But online discussions seem to have surpassed inter-vehicular behavior. Particularly here in the PNW, where car culture is unusually polite. The Seattle nice thing. Was funny, years ago, moving here from New York, a place where there must be a dozen different kinds of honks -- not all of them offensive. One was referred to as "love taps". Then I show up in Seattle, a callow young fellow, and the first time I fire my horn, people look at me as if I were a child molester. Took a little getting used to but now I like it. When I go back east, I get freaked out by the honking. Particularly in Manhattan. But then I start laughing and all the old instincts come back. They're honking and I'm honking, and it's no big deal.

 

[RiverDog]

The sad part is that some posters are disingenuous in going after me, tbh. Legitimately I found the brand of football in the 80's with Kreig and Larget fun to watch, no matter how many times the ball slipped out of Kreig's tiny hands. . I loved how bltizes and hitting the QB could alter the game. The Holmgren years with his verison of the west coast system was exciting and new for the hawks. Even during the 2-14 season we had Tez being double and tripled teamed, I believe. Which was amazing wataching. The legendary villains like Elway and Okoye shaped my memories of the Hawks. It's just my opinion that the hawks were more fun to watch in the olds days , based off foggy memories which can't be proven or disproven as factual, tbh. Which is why some posters have to get personal in the attacks. Whatever. When I say Peteball is boring, I didn't claim that Pete was unsuccessful as the Seahawks coach. That would be crazy. Some people love the game and watching it and the intricacies of the scheming like the Patriots during their run, no matter the record. It's crazy the aggressiveness some posters are to label "wrong think" or shape the conversations to only their narrative. So PNW...

I agree and disagree. Yes, the years in the 80's with Dave Kreig, as frustrating as they were (I once saw Kreig fumble nearly standing still without a defender within 5 yards of him) was a can't miss event. I planned my day around those games.

But Pete Ball at its height was incredible. The LOB defense was awesome, created a huge adrenaline rush when Kam would lay out a tight end. During that period of time, I used to go to a bar here in Kennewick, like a Buffalo Wild Wings, to watch a Seahawks game and the atmosphere was electric.

That's one of the reasons why I've lobbied for Pete's dismissal. I long for that period of time and am willing to risk everything to achieve it again before I die.

 

[Parallax]

I agree and disagree. Yes, the years in the 80's with Dave Kreig, as frustrating as they were (I once saw Kreig fumble nearly standing still without a defender within 5 yards of him) was a can't miss event. I planned my day around those games.

But Pete Ball at its height was incredible. The LOB defense was awesome, created a huge adrenaline rush when Kam would lay out a tight end. During that period of time, I used to go to a bar here in Kennewick, like a Buffalo Wild Wings, to watch a Seahawks game and the atmosphere was electric.

That's one of the reasons why I've lobbied for Pete's dismissal. I long for that period of time and am willing to risk everything to achieve it again before I die.

That defense was special. I really enjoyed it. Kam, Earl and Sherm were all so special. Put them together on the same team and the result was more than the sum of the parts, as each had a major persecution complex and they'd egg each other on. The result was dynamic and explosive and violent and amazing (if you were a Hawks fan). I don't expect to see anything like it again because what are the chances of that much talent, and that much paranoid insecurity, on the same field at the same time?

 

[bigcc]

I'm sure you're right. In addition, there's something to not seeing someone as a person with a face and a real name. In person, there's a sense of common humanity. We wouldn't typically insult someone. Doing online doesn't feel as real. It doesn't feel like there's a human being on the other side with legitimate needs and real feelings.

I used to think people were at their worst in cars. Relating to each other as if we were the machines we drive. But online discussions seem to have surpassed inter-vehicular behavior. Particularly here in the PNW, where car culture is unusually polite. The Seattle nice thing. Was funny, years ago, moving here from New York, a place where there must be a dozen different kinds of honks -- not all of them offensive. One was referred to as "love taps". Then I show up in Seattle, a callow young fellow, and the first time I fire my horn, people look at me as if I were a child molester. Took a little getting used to but now I like it. When I go back east, I get freaked out by the honking. Particularly in Manhattan. But then I start laughing and all the old instincts come back. They're honking and I'm honking, and it's no big deal.

I don't know if you've ever watched curb your enthusiasm, but larry David has a great bit about aggressive honking vs love taps

I'd never really made the connection, but I 100 percent see what you're saying with the parallels between talking to people online and between cars while driving.

Not as popular, but there's a term called drive by posting (not making this up) that kind of connects the two now that I think about it

 

[bigcc]

That defense was special. I really enjoyed it. Kam, Earl and Sherm were all so special. Put them together on the same team and the result was more than the sum of the parts, as each had a major persecution complex and they'd egg each other on. The result was dynamic and explosive and violent and amazing (if you were a Hawks fan). I don't expect to see anything like it again because what are the chances of that much talent, and that much paranoid insecurity, on the same field at the same time?

It's wild to think that those defenses were so deep/had so much personality, that nobody ever mentions us having an all pro first ballot HOF mlb calling the plays during the run lol.

Perhaps that will change once he retires, but even in the midst of it, Bobby has never been in the forefront of the discussion around those defenses.