The Seahawks are going to the playoffs in 2022!

TwistedHusky

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Disagree toffee.

You could make the case QB is arguably THE most important position IN ALL SPORTS. You could easily argue that QB impacts the success on his team as much if not more than any basketball player.

I can point to several basketball players that are great players even elite players, that do not have much success in either the regular season or playoffs. Great players in basketball on bad teams happen all the time, at all positions. MUCH harder to find great QBs on bad teams, at least in the past 5 years. (Maybe the Chargers? if you consider their QB an ascending star?) Maybe Watson, but that situation is so weird...not sure we can use it.
 

CalgaryHawkFan2005

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If we don't win at all in Sept and Oct., some folks will start missing those 'politics'. Heck, some already have on dot net.
Well, and if we go winless the entire season, we'll have a great draft next year and PC will get fired. And if it rains, I'll get wet too!

I don't really care about that. Nice to have the team back under at least a bit of control - however mis-guided occasionally and not entirely like 2013 it is.

To the original OP: Switch to crack-light.

I'm just looking forward to watching the show, now that the coach can run the team. There's absolutely no ******* way we're playoff bound. But, a development year is fun to watch too, and IIRC - isn't that the point?

Can't have a Faustian deal to 'get to the owl' every year. Ask Denver in 5 months!
 

CalgaryHawkFan2005

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You could make the case QB is arguably THE most important position IN ALL SPORTS. You could easily argue that QB impacts the success on his team as much if not more than any basketball player.

Twisted; respect, but;

"You could make the case QB has been MADE to be THE most important position IN ALL SPORTS."

There I fixed that for ya.

Time to rewatch Any Given Sunday. "Where's you're invisible juice now?!". It's a team sport. Everyone has forgotten that.
 

TwistedHusky

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Acknowledged Calgary.
The NFL did this on purpose. They made it easier for QBs at the expense of almost everyone else. Because QBs have a long shelf life, are easily marketable, and the idea that a bad team is one QB away from being a great team keeps fans engaged.
It was absolutely on purpose. Completely agree. But we are still stuck with it.

The ramifications for a team that doesn't have a great QB is that you have to wait until you get one.
 

Stud

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I don't know about playoffs but I think the team will start to be fun to watch again. I genuinely didn't enjoy watching 2/3 of most Seahawks games because of how awful all aspects of the team looked. It's remarkable they were able to remain competitive while looking like they had never played football before.

JS has a great eye for QB talent so there's clearly someone in the near future he likes to sign off on Russ trade. Pete completely revamped defensive coaching staff. Tons of picks in a LOADED, core building defensive class. Go get some angry, fast, violent dudes at LB, CB, and DL and start kicking the shit out of teams again.

That's because you Seahawks fans were spoiled having a hall of fame QB in Wilson. I'm weirded out by all the hate Wilson gets despite him basically being the reason you guys would win 10-12 games a year. You're going to find out the hard way what happens when you don't have a QB to be clutch at the end of games.

Welcome to what 80% of the rest of the NFL experiences by no longer having a top 5 QB.
 

John63

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That's because you Seahawks fans were spoiled having a hall of fame QB in Wilson. I'm weirded out by all the hate Wilson gets despite him basically being the reason you guys would win 10-12 games a year. You're going to find out the hard way what happens when you don't have a QB to be clutch at the end of games.

Welcome to what 80% of the rest of the NFL experiences by no longer having a top 5 QB.
Great post spot on.
 

keasley45

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That's because you Seahawks fans were spoiled having a hall of fame QB in Wilson. I'm weirded out by all the hate Wilson gets despite him basically being the reason you guys would win 10-12 games a year. You're going to find out the hard way what happens when you don't have a QB to be clutch at the end of games.

Welcome to what 80% of the rest of the NFL experiences by no longer having a top 5 QB.
Seahawks fans don't need to find out the 'Hard Way' what poor qb play is. We had a decade of it in the 90s.

It just might be that some criticism of Wilson is valid and warranted. Next man up might not possess the talent that Russ had, but the team had accomplished all it could with him at the position.
 

CalgaryHawkFan2005

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This fanbase has been spoiled for years, and that's putting it mildly.
If by 'spoiled' you mean: we hate when we lose, and love when we win - well, color me spoiled ;)

Still f'ing glad Wilson's gone and it's a development year (which isn't ANTI RW, just pro 'where we are'). THAT is fun. Watching prima donnas bitch about how 50MM a year isn't enough - not so fun. I wanna see the early days with PC/JS like 250 roster moves before September ;)

I still think mentally RW dragged the team down. Ask Marshawn who's b***k enough. It was a cancer for YEARS.

Anyways, that aside. OP, we're not going to the playoffs.
 

Smellyman

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Michael Jordan, the greatest BBall player of all time is now being compared to Russell Wilson who is not even a top 5 QB right now perhaps not even top 10. LOL
 

SoulfishHawk

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Glad Russ is gone and he dragged the team down? Boy, I'm so glad I don't talk about this subject these days. He literally carried the team for several years.

Doesn't matter, he's gone, and it's not worth even bringing up. An absolute waste of time and energy. On to 2022. And yes, this fanbase is spoiled. And that's fine, they had a lot of success the last decade.
 

TwistedHusky

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Pretty sure the comparison is between franchises.

The Bulls won for almost a decade because they had a single player that attracted other great players and also drove the franchise to consistent success at reaching the playoffs and succeeding in them.
When they decided to rebuild without Jordan, they haven't really won consistently since. Not even remotely much a playoff threat though they have made the playoffs a few times. It took almost a decade before they could win their division again.

The Seahawks also won for nearly a decade because of their great player. Without that great player, the Seahawks will find they aren't going to be any kind of relevant team in terms of better teams in the league, playoff threats, or almost any other measure of success.
Rebuilding teams rarely reach their former heights, when they are rebuilding from a consistently winning team.

Because that dominance is a function of the players on that team, and without those players - you don't get that success. Especially if that success hinges on key players.

As fans of a no longer winning franchise, we have to accept that expectations for success and failure have to change with it. Fans of almost every winning team face this when they lose a key player and try to replace with someone else. It rarely works. Usually, it fails spectacularly.

In time, people will realize that as annoying, smarmy, and maybe full of himself as Wilson is/was - he was the engine that drove those wins the past 5 years. That engine is gone. We are just shooting for .500 and MAYBE MAYBE a wildcard in a year or 3. (likely not even that)
 

keasley45

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Pretty sure the comparison is between franchises.

The Bulls won for almost a decade because they had a single player that attracted other great players and also drove the franchise to consistent success at reaching the playoffs and succeeding in them.
When they decided to rebuild without Jordan, they haven't really won consistently since. Not even remotely much a playoff threat though they have made the playoffs a few times. It took almost a decade before they could win their division again.

The Seahawks also won for nearly a decade because of their great player. Without that great player, the Seahawks will find they aren't going to be any kind of relevant team in terms of better teams in the league, playoff threats, or almost any other measure of success.
Rebuilding teams rarely reach their former heights, when they are rebuilding from a consistently winning team.

Because that dominance is a function of the players on that team, and without those players - you don't get that success. Especially if that success hinges on key players.

As fans of a no longer winning franchise, we have to accept that expectations for success and failure have to change with it. Fans of almost every winning team face this when they lose a key player and try to replace with someone else. It rarely works. Usually, it fails spectacularly.

In time, people will realize that as annoying, smarmy, and maybe full of himself as Wilson is/was - he was the engine that drove those wins the past 5 years. That engine is gone. We are just shooting for .500 and MAYBE MAYBE a wildcard in a year or 3. (likely not even that)

The element of the team that brought us ultimate success was the defense. Then Lynch. Then Russ and the passing game. After the defense was dismantled and Lynchs replacement couldn't be found, we had Russ, and Russ did what Russ did and we won games. But Russ as THE team... Russ as THE reason we were anything is revisionist history at its finest. There were questions going even into 2017 as to whether Russ could be more than a system QB. The narrative was never... what would the hawks be without #3? It was... what will the Hawks be without Lynch and the LOB. That's just fact. And what we were without them is pretty obvious.

Russ was THE offense in 2020 and 2021 because he made it so. 2016 to 2019 was a truthing process where the defense was average, but good enough, the running game ... also average, slightly better, and Russ assumed more control. He was THE offense in 2016 or 17 because he had NO running backs. His performance that year was absolutely a case of carrying the team.

But the indisputable fact is that we have rarely been great on the money down with the ball in Russ's hands and on his arm. Scrambling - yes, the numbers were better, but I posted a pretty objective analysis on this a while back that compared Russ through the air on 3rd down to every other top franchise qb in the league over multiple years. Russ only once cracked the top 10 and most often was lower than 20th. He's the only one of the 'elite' with such a black mark. That's no hate. It's fact.

It's also fact that that futility had impacted this team and the offense as much as the rainbow bombs that Russ tosses.

Myth - RussWilson is overrated
Myth - Russ was THE reason we were anything.

Truth - he was great and flawed, and unless he pulls out his RPO prowess to keep defenses off balance, OR willingly relies on the running game, he will suffer the same fate in Denver that he did here.

There are multiple articles documenting his struggles during our superbowl runs. Articles posted in 2020 documenting his inability to make consistent, chain moving plays. Brock Huard just talked about it on his last podcast - how Russ was great but all improv because he had to be to be able to see the field... and how ADB and Tate stated clearly during their time here that its great to be able to make spectacular plays, but and I'm paraphrasing , 'we have to do it within the called offense, not always improvised'..

So maybe that's all hate too and disillusionment. Either way, we won't have to argue about it anymore. It's all Denver's issue.
 

TwistedHusky

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Weirdly I agree with you Keasely.

Sort of.
The LOB and the Lynch were the heart and soul of this team. And we probably could have won with another QB if we bothered to act then.
But when we traded Unger and Tate, it was over. We were then all in on Wilson.
Getting Jimmy Graham, a guy the LOB used to mock for being soft, was a sign it was over.
That said, Wilson made a lot of key 3rd down plays that year and the RPO made it very difficult to defend him.
The right move would have been to have run it back with Lynch & the LOB, then maybe look at whether going all in on Wilson made sense or trading to the Jets for picks was a better call.

But once loaded up on Wilson, we made the mistake because Carroll kept trying to play a type of football that did not fit his roster, especially after the LOB left.
Carroll was an architect, a program builder not really a good gameday coach. And so he was never a good enough coach to go all in with offensive weapons and make it work.

Once you have a basically average roster and all you have is a great QB? Then you find a way to make it work. We didn't.



NOTE:
It should also be noted that Let Russ Cook came after some of the worst first half offenses in Seahawk history. THAT led to the 2020. 2021 offenses.
But that earlier football was so digustingly boring and bad that I (and many other Seahawk fans) didn't even bother to watch the 1st halves. I routinely skipped the 1st halves and I had tickets! Would still show up to games at halftime because why bother?
Russ forced his offense because what Carroll was doing was repulsive bad football. Field position, clock bleeding, and the occasional FG. Remember the Panthers game where Russ at 50 yd passing AT THE HALF? Remember how we would AVERAGE less than a TD in the 1st half for almost over a year?
Please don't pretend Russ didn't force things for no reason. It was awful barely watchable garbage football in the 1st halves for almost 2 years.

You seemed to imply that Russ was unreasonable for demanding control of the offense. The only thing unreasonable is that he didn't do it sooner.
 
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JayhawkMike

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Without reading the whole thread I only want to say anybody can buy tickets to a playoff game. Even Seahawks. That’s the only Way anyone on this team is going this year.
 

scutterhawk

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Seahawks fans don't need to find out the 'Hard Way' what poor qb play is. We had a decade of it in the 90s.

It just might be that some criticism of Wilson is valid and warranted. Next man up might not possess the talent that Russ had, but the team had accomplished all it could with him at the position.
The Quarterback might SUPPOSEDLY be the most important player in all of TEAM SPORTS, but hell, it's bloomin' obvious that even with a TOP 5 Quarterback, you're going need others on the team to HELP put you over the top (see Rodgers).
Super Bowls >have been won< with less than Super Star talented Quarterbacks (see Trent Dilfer?).
As far as the Quarterback being the most important piece in all of sports??? LOLOL try telling that to some of the World Champ Boxers out there.
 

scutterhawk

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Weirdly I agree with you Keasely.

Sort of.
The LOB and the Lynch were the heart and soul of this team. And we probably could have won with another QB if we bothered to act then.
But when we traded Unger and Tate, it was over. We were then all in on Wilson.
Getting Jimmy Graham, a guy the LOB used to mock for being soft, was a sign it was over.
That said, Wilson made a lot of key 3rd down plays that year and the RPO made it very difficult to defend him.
The right move would have been to have run it back with Lynch & the LOB, then maybe look at whether going all in on Wilson made sense or trading to the Jets for picks was a better call.

But once loaded up on Wilson, we made the mistake because Carroll kept trying to play a type of football that did not fit his roster, especially after the LOB left.
Carroll was an architect, a program builder not really a good gameday coach. And so he was never a good enough coach to go all in with offensive weapons and make it work.

Once you have a basically average roster and all you have is a great QB? Then you find a way to make it work. We didn't.



NOTE:
It should also be noted that Let Russ Cook came after some of the worst first half offenses in Seahawk history. THAT led to the 2020. 2021 offenses.
But that earlier football was so digustingly boring and bad that I (and many other Seahawk fans) didn't even bother to watch the 1st halves. I routinely skipped the 1st halves and I had tickets! Would still show up to games at halftime because why bother?
Russ forced his offense because what Carroll was doing was repulsive bad football. Field position, clock bleeding, and the occasional FG. Remember the Panthers game where Russ at 50 yd passing AT THE HALF? Remember how we would AVERAGE less than a TD in the 1st half for almost over a year?
Please don't pretend Russ didn't force things for no reason. It was awful barely watchable garbage football in the 1st halves for almost 2 years.

You seemed to imply that Russ was unreasonable for demanding control of the offense. The only thing unreasonable is that he didn't do it sooner.
You mean like Rodgers??
 

keasley45

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Weirdly I agree with you Keasely.

Sort of.
The LOB and the Lynch were the heart and soul of this team. And we probably could have won with another QB if we bothered to act then.
But when we traded Unger and Tate, it was over. We were then all in on Wilson.
Getting Jimmy Graham, a guy the LOB used to mock for being soft, was a sign it was over.
That said, Wilson made a lot of key 3rd down plays that year and the RPO made it very difficult to defend him.
The right move would have been to have run it back with Lynch & the LOB, then maybe look at whether going all in on Wilson made sense or trading to the Jets for picks was a better call.

But once loaded up on Wilson, we made the mistake because Carroll kept trying to play a type of football that did not fit his roster, especially after the LOB left.
Carroll was an architect, a program builder not really a good gameday coach. And so he was never a good enough coach to go all in with offensive weapons and make it work.

Once you have a basically average roster and all you have is a great QB? Then you find a way to make it work. We didn't.



NOTE:
It should also be noted that Let Russ Cook came after some of the worst first half offenses in Seahawk history. THAT led to the 2020. 2021 offenses.
But that earlier football was so digustingly boring and bad that I (and many other Seahawk fans) didn't even bother to watch the 1st halves. I routinely skipped the 1st halves and I had tickets! Would still show up to games at halftime because why bother?
Russ forced his offense because what Carroll was doing was repulsive bad football. Field position, clock bleeding, and the occasional FG. Remember the Panthers game where Russ at 50 yd passing AT THE HALF? Remember how we would AVERAGE less than a TD in the 1st half for almost over a year?
Please don't pretend Russ didn't force things for no reason. It was awful barely watchable garbage football in the 1st halves for almost 2 years.

You seemed to imply that Russ was unreasonable for demanding control of the offense. The only thing unreasonable is that he didn't do it sooner.

Solid post. I guess the point of divergence is what the cause of the poor offenses was, and what the appropriate solution was / is.

I agree that the early offense was often bland. But the question now in hindsight, given Russ's statistical performance on 3rd down, tendency to go off script for much of the game, and the struggles in getting defenses out of high 2 looks via a more diverse passing game, is whether the close games where we were maybe boring, but possessed the ball (helping the defense) were a correct, if not exciting adjustment, or whether it was just Pete being Pete - no creativity. Just run.

We saw the offense that we were clamoring for in the first halves you mentioned early on in Russ's tenure , in 2020, and 2021. Explosive for a bit, but then a liability when the defenses adjusted and our average drive duration plummeted to the dregs of the league. I think that result is what Pete was trying to avoid early on in his tenure and raging against last year and the year before. But the stubbornness was a bad on Russ

I think the correction was often overly simple, which was bad on Pete. But it was a correction. Our passing game has shown that it had none. Feast or famine. Big play or bust.

Pete, toward the end of last year shifted the offense to a slightly more varied run game that got us great results, and it seems his trust in Waldron amd commitment to creating a more dynamic (still run based) offense might be a sign that he's learned and is good with modernizing the approach.

You can certainly say that on defense.

So looking ahead, you can justifiably be frustrated at the strategy we shifted to to get the offense going, but history now shows it couldn't when Russ couldn't beat defenses from a pure xs and os, schematic perspective. At least now, the coaching staff seems to have adapted, and committed to building on a new approach.

The frustrating thing with Russ is that he drew a line, and even when he was given the reigns and showed the same flaws, doubled down and dug his feet in. His position that thr offense should hsvr been more " exciting' is maybe valid. But that 'excitement' required HIM to shift the passing game to one that coukd exploit defenses and spread the ball around to beat coverages - the one thing he has struggled to do. So he was complaining about not getting something only he could provide. But I honestly don't think he had a choice in playing his hand the way he did because even if he adopted a successful Waldron approach, the simple fact that it would rely on the run to keep it going, rather than that area of the pass game where he struggled, would ding his legacy. Best to pack up house and try to remake yourself elsewhere... different team, different coaches, and most importantly, IF it works, he will be recognized for having qb'd two winning franchises. Common denominator = #3. Free from Pete and the Hawks, Lynch and the LOB, regardless of whether he goes back to his RPO self. He'll secure his legacy.
 
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