The Santa Clara 49ers implosion is imminent!
- Thread starter seatownlowdown
- Start date
hawksfansinceday1
Active member
Whistling past the graveyard?NINEster":ovuq6fmo said:
RichNhansom
Active member
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 4,256
- Reaction score
- 5
NINEster":fdsw594y said:
Vegas isn't predicting anything but what they believe will get bettors to the window. Their predictions have nothing to do with what they believe will happen.
As for the Vikings win it was a combination of things I mentioned earlier but it also helped that the team at that point hadn't been demoralized multiple times so they were still playing with belief they were possibly a good team. I do believe though if you played them week two or at normal time even with travel they still win that game. Just my thoughts.
You guys are all pretty hard on coaching last year and rightfully so but one thing I didn't see from your players was them quitting the coach like we watched happen to Mora here his only year coaching. It was obvious pretty early on the year they were just going through the motions. Tomsula lacked in knowledge but it appeared to me that he still had the team trying and that is a big part of coaching. This is also something I have yet to see any 9er fan even mention. It was the main topic of conversation here while Mora had his one year.
The reason I bring up quitting is because there were rumors in Philly that his team quit him and IMO that is much worse than lacking the Knowledge to be great.
rideaducati
New member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2012
- Messages
- 5,414
- Reaction score
- 0
hawksfansinceday1":qlaemooq said:
Gotta laugh at him trying to make their only good win into a REALLY GOOD WIN. BEST EVAR...
Fair points Rich.
Tomsula, if he had anything going for him was his ability to motivate and lead. I think Tomsula could have led the 2015 49ers to a decent record if he had retained the previous coaching staffs, and perhaps had Aldon Smith.
But naturally he wasn't going to have the same coaching, and losing a lot of key players wasn't going to help any DC. The 49ers were running essentially the same offense, but Tomsula had zero ability to do anything about adjustments whereas Harbaugh could do something.
As for Kelly, his GMing more than anything led to last year's poor results. Numerous articles on the Eagles decline talk about their loss of quality guards as part of the run game issues, not just the loss of Desean Jackson as a deep threat and Lesean McCoy as a more natural fit for the offense. The popular narrative is to call Kelly's offense exposed, but I don't think that's it. Go watch Bill Belichick's football life for 2009 season openly admitting to his coaches that if teams take away Moss and Welker, "we've got nothing"......BILL BELICHICK!
I don't hold it against coaches that have their teams start to fold a bit after adversity.
Harbaugh himself did a great job of that but then in the last season it became a real problem.
Tomsula, if he had anything going for him was his ability to motivate and lead. I think Tomsula could have led the 2015 49ers to a decent record if he had retained the previous coaching staffs, and perhaps had Aldon Smith.
But naturally he wasn't going to have the same coaching, and losing a lot of key players wasn't going to help any DC. The 49ers were running essentially the same offense, but Tomsula had zero ability to do anything about adjustments whereas Harbaugh could do something.
As for Kelly, his GMing more than anything led to last year's poor results. Numerous articles on the Eagles decline talk about their loss of quality guards as part of the run game issues, not just the loss of Desean Jackson as a deep threat and Lesean McCoy as a more natural fit for the offense. The popular narrative is to call Kelly's offense exposed, but I don't think that's it. Go watch Bill Belichick's football life for 2009 season openly admitting to his coaches that if teams take away Moss and Welker, "we've got nothing"......BILL BELICHICK!
I don't hold it against coaches that have their teams start to fold a bit after adversity.
Harbaugh himself did a great job of that but then in the last season it became a real problem.
rideaducati":4ppj6zhl said:
I'd rather have that, than try to explain away how the Seahawks lucked out in numerous wins over the last few seasons...I'm sure that has to be daunting.
Green Bay 2012 & 2014, Detroit 2015, Minnesota 2015 wild card, etc. It's not just 49er fans who comment on this.
Seattle did have the largest lead of a Belichick/Brady team in the Super Bowl though......the Giants never had a 13 point lead at any time in their games against the Patriots. First time Brady ever threw two picks in a Super Bowl. :2thumbs:
Maulbert
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,229
- Reaction score
- 2,447
NINEster":1i8zbfww said:
A good leader? Tomsula? The human equivalent of a yawn? He couldn't lead a dog to a butt sniffing convention. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
rideaducati
New member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2012
- Messages
- 5,414
- Reaction score
- 0
NINEster":1rgt5t4s said:
Really? You would rather defend a meaningless win of a week one game vs a better team than playoff wins... Right. I believe you because you are a niner fan and that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Sports Hernia
Well-known member
:34853_doh: :177692:NINEster":106pjofs said:
How very "webzone" of you.
RichNhansom
Active member
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 4,256
- Reaction score
- 5
Maulbert":13eu1xho said:
Actually I believe he was and NINEster is right about many points. Tomsula was a bad hire for multiple reasons. Of those was he was set up to fail. After all the success that Harbaugh had and the departure of so many key players, it was inevitable he would fail and fail he did but his failure wasn't because the players didn't like or respect him. It was because he lacked the football knowledge to maximize limited talent and pressure was on him to succeed. It's a failure many coaches would suffer and have like Mora. The difference was Mora didn't just fail because of lack of talent. He failed to keep his players motivated and you could see it visibly towards the end of the season. Players just wanted to get it over with. Even their reputation couldn't keep them invested.
I will say this, if Tomsula agreed to come be our D-line coach I would be ecstatic. I think he is a good position coach and possibly could one day develop into a possible head coach candidate with the proper mentoring. He was given a raw deal by the Niners and really did the best he could given not just talent but the supporting coaching staff.
NINEster I also need to give you props in this thread and your recent postings. Your fighting the good fight without letting things get out of hand. I know that is tough on a rival board. Props. Keep it up and don't let the kidney punches take you out. I've enjoyed our recent transactions and your input.
Caveat: I still am guilty of trashing the 9ers org for the purpose of getting under some 9er fans skin but I try to keep it to the ones that deserve it. I apologize if you get caught in the crossfire sometimes. You've become a pretty good addition to .Net. I would definitely buy you a beer and watch a game with you.
Sterling Archer
New member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2010
- Messages
- 325
- Reaction score
- 0
NINEster":3ko9srtf said:
I'm actually really glad you brought this up. I do find it daunting having a top 5 defense and QB and it keeps me up at night imagining all the ways we're going to destroy the league this year.
MizzouHawkGal
Well-known member
You have kuptza (balls for our non-Jewish segment) My question to fellow Seahawk fans....I love bunny rabbits can I keep this one and call him George? I am saying this because you are figting fair but in the way wrong spot to do so. Hence be my bunny rabbit and at least know how to pick a fight or defend yourself from the obvious on every level. You're alright imy book in otherworsds. Totally wrong but alright.
HawkAroundTheClock
New member
NINEster":1nnkvzw6 said:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting this statement, but maintaining the integrity of the team in the face of adversity is EXACTLY what I expect of the coaches. After experiencing the juxtaposition of Holmgren's last year, then Mora, and finally Carroll, that characteristic is of the utmost importance.
The players are responsible as well, and you always want veteran leadership to help, but I understand if they get caught up in the emotions and feel the funk of a losing streak. I expect all the coaches, especially the head coach, to know better and to sense the players' vibe and keep the train on the tracks.
IMO, that trait can overcome talent deficiencies, salary cap problems, etc. It's the reason why after two 7-9 seasons, those of us who had been following the Seahawks knew the future was very bright – even before Russell Wilson. While outsiders and rival fans cranked out the memes and jokes, we knew Pete was building a team that would never ever quit.
RichNhansom
Active member
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 4,256
- Reaction score
- 5
HawkAroundTheClock":9j8wkjqd said:
This is an excellent point. Not only could you see the very visible quit from the players in Mora's one year you could see immediately that the players in Pete's first year here were working their asses off and would run through a wall for Pete. The difference was night and day and like Hawkaroundtheclock said, you knew something speacial was building. It was blatantly obvious to anyone who was paying attention.
Seahawkfan80
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 11,708
- Reaction score
- 925
5_Golden_Rings
New member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,199
- Reaction score
- 0
RichNhansom":31hbj9xy said:
The 49ers definitely quit on the coaching staff last year and it started in week 2, when due to Mangina's dumb scheme Navorro Bowman was covering Antonio Brown in man to man. From there it was all down hill, and you could see it clearly when teams started running down hill on the 49ers despite a pretty talented front seven. They were no worse than average in terms of talent on the defensive front, and I can say without bias they were above average with guys like Ian Williams, Quinton Dial, Bowman, Aaron Lynch and Armstead (who finished near the top in percentage of qb pressures for 3-4 ends). And yet by mid season you saw guys trying for arm tackles and moving out of the way of opponents.
Why? Because they found out after a few games they were dealing with NFL RECORD incompetence in their coaches. The quarterback coach was hosting a radio program before he got hired FFS. Tomsula was the blind leading the blind. These people were awful. The only decent coach on that team was Tom Rathman, who is still there.
Tomsula's only positive traits were that he was able to see the weaknesses of the previous coaching staff and that he knew his own limits. As a result he improved one aspect of the team- avoiding delay of game penalties. Unfortunately despite knowing his limitations he was unable to get more qualified people on his staff to overcome them. No one wanted to work for the York's AND under a guy who hadn't paid his dues (and who might have been Mike Singletary's notorious "rat.").
So yeah the players quit on the coaches and didn't start playing hard again until the coaches made roster changes all the players knew needed to be made for week prior (Andre Tiller, Gabbert, etc).
RichNhansom":28ewuclq said:
Rich, thanks for the nice words man. Would love to watch a game with you as well. :irishdrinkers:
Will keep fighting the good fight, hahaha. Eventually, 1 year or 10, the good fight will win. :mrgreen:
MizzouHawkGal":10xufyua said:
Isn't it chutzpah?
Good on you for educating the board....outside of NY where I grew up, most won't know what it is unless they're Jewish.
I'll be your bunny rabbit but just ask that you call me Bobby.
Popeyejones
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 5,525
- Reaction score
- 0
Chutzpah is kinda different than having big balls though, as it's as much about foolish overconfidence as it's about confidence. When saying someone has big balls sarcastically or disapprovingly you kinda have to signal that you're using it that way, whereas with chutzpah that connotation is already baked in a little bit.
Hard to put my finger on it, but I feel like the word, regardless of if it is being used negatively ("can you believe the chutzpah that would take?!?!?!") or positively ("have a little chutzpah, why don't you!") seems to always come with a bit of expasperation that having big balls doesn't (but can).
Kinda a neat word in that at the same time it's both about having big balls and sarcastically saying "look at the balls on that guy." Chutzpah basically = big balls + imprudence.
As for spelling, I don't know if it's hebrew or yiddish, but there's not really a "correct" way to spell it in english. There's just more common and less common ways. It's like Chanukah or Hanukkah, both of which are equally correct/incorrect.
Source: I'm Tribe (if that wasn't already clear from my love of arguing, know-it-all tendencies, and habit of turning from very serious to a joking, dismissive and sarcastic jerk at the drop of a dime in conversation :lol: )
Hard to put my finger on it, but I feel like the word, regardless of if it is being used negatively ("can you believe the chutzpah that would take?!?!?!") or positively ("have a little chutzpah, why don't you!") seems to always come with a bit of expasperation that having big balls doesn't (but can).
Kinda a neat word in that at the same time it's both about having big balls and sarcastically saying "look at the balls on that guy." Chutzpah basically = big balls + imprudence.
As for spelling, I don't know if it's hebrew or yiddish, but there's not really a "correct" way to spell it in english. There's just more common and less common ways. It's like Chanukah or Hanukkah, both of which are equally correct/incorrect.
Source: I'm Tribe (if that wasn't already clear from my love of arguing, know-it-all tendencies, and habit of turning from very serious to a joking, dismissive and sarcastic jerk at the drop of a dime in conversation :lol: )
RichNhansom
Active member
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 4,256
- Reaction score
- 5
5_Golden_Rings":1h3upfwz said:
You could be right but you are the first person I have seen mention of it and that is only due to being prompted and yes I have read and followed the webzone boards with no results. It could be something that was discussed in game day threads. I rarely read yours unless you guys are discussing a Seahawks game. Then it is pretty funny to read the comments.
In general though it does not appear to be a popular belief unlike here when Mora had taken over. It was constantly a main topic of discussion because it was so blatantly obvious.
I know you want to believe it because it gives you hope that the next coaching staff will be better and the players will play harder for them but that remains to be seen and if Philly is any indication, you should have reason to be cautious and yes I know Chip was the GM and coach.
It really is the million dollar question though. Do you really have average or good talent on defense? Did they just not play up to potential? Or is the talent part of the problem?
I will say from my point of view it likely won't be answered this next season. Chip is an offensive mind and Jim O'neil has not shown he is capable of getting good performance from his defense. Add to that Chip's system is believed to be a defense killer and you have a recipe for poor performance.
I will be watching and wondering though. Sometimes laughing a little at much of your fan base but anymore kind of just feeling sorry for the fans like yourself that deserve better. It's going to be interesting for sure.
Similar threads
