So What Do We Do About This Defense?

[Sgt. Largent]

So you think there is little to no chance that the young guys might get better? You think the Hawks just wasted their draft picks on poor DE's ? you dont believe that the season is a process of growth and development and that the D is just crap unless they sign some big name? REALLY?

I mean it very well might turn out that the young guys dont pan out and the Hawks need to make a FA signing but as to this point in the season the Hawks are 2-0 (it's not just because of Wilson and the O) Yes they need to get more production out of the D line and yes the D isn't as good as 2013... but dont ya think you should just let the Hawks coach these guys up and see where we are in the later weeks to come? Im willing to bet , barring major injury, that by the 4th quarter of the season the Hawks will have this thing sorted out at least good enough so that this team is competing for the Super Bowl..

LTH

I admire your optimism, but if past performance dictates future results, it's hard to blame people for being pessimistic on how our young DE's are going to play this year. Especially when the guy with the most promise is hurt.

Collier seems to be playing better, but still nowhere near the impact player we need him to be on this impact deficient D-line.

Unfortunately the cupboards are so bare, most of us have no time to be patient. We need playmakers, now.

 

[sdog1981]

No one mentioned that both Green and Robinson were healthy scratches last night? That made zero sense and lead to pridicable resutls in regards to the pass rush.

 

[Seanhawk]

Damn, Niners best us to Ziggy Ansah. John and Pete too slow again.

Yet Pete and John are still faster than Ziggy. Remember when Ziggy got outran by Josh McCown's carcass last year?

 

[gowazzu02]

I wasn't worried about the Atlanta game, a lot of those yards came during garbage time.

Last night, that wasn't great though.

Im going to go positive, I think Amadi did a decent job. So with Blair out he's going to get a bunch more PT.

 

[Chapow]

I'm not saying this defense isn't pretty bad, but I'm not so sure they're the worst, or even one of the worst, in the league. They might be, but I think that remains to be seen.

15 teams gave up at least as many points as the Seahawks did this week, and the Saints and Raiders have yet to play.

Matt Ryan and the Falcons managed to put up 18 points against us in the first 59 minutes of the game last week (congrats to Ryan on a ton of garbage time yardage, I guess). Those same Falcons just put up 39 on the Cowboys yesterday.

There are also tons of examples of teams, and units, improving throughout the course of the season. The Chiefs defense was pretty damn bad for the first 10 or so weeks of last season, but played much better down the stretch.

I'm not AT ALL trying to say the D isn't a problem, I'm just suggesting that maybe it's a wee bit early to be throwing in the towel and declaring that we can't win anything with this defense.

Side note, I wonder how Pats fans are feeling about their D today? They just watched their defense get shredded for 35 points and more passing TDs in 1 game than they gave up all of last season.

 

[cheese22]

I know he wouldn't be the answer but I'd sure like to have Jacob Martin back. Still need more than him obviously, but young, cheap and improving sounds pretty good.

 

[tersal]

Yes, Jamal has been a wonderful gift and has seemed to give life back to our defense that we haven't seen since Kam and Earl and Richard were in their heyday...Our DL is still a mess. Zero pass pressure. Anytime you give Cam Newton the opportunity to throw nearly 400 yards is a problem.

Irvin went out early with an injury so that probably had some effect, but other than that I just think we stink at DL. Talk me off the ledge here.

Stay calm it's still, early Pete always builds for a strong second-half run. read what i wrote below on another post.:

They are playing the run better part of that is Adams and part of that is the linebackers can play closer to the line of scrimmage. They no longer have to protect a weak secondary underneath. Last year they allowed 4.9 yards a rush this year so far just 3 yards a rush. Pass rush requires spme majpr improvement but it is still early.

 

[tersal]

Yes, Jamal has been a wonderful gift and has seemed to give life back to our defense that we haven't seen since Kam and Earl and Richard were in their heyday...Our DL is still a mess. Zero pass pressure. Anytime you give Cam Newton the opportunity to throw nearly 400 yards is a problem.

Irvin went out early with an injury so that probably had some effect, but other than that I just think we stink at DL. Talk me off the ledge here.

Stay calm it's still, early Pete always builds for a strong second-half run. read what i wrote below on another post.:

They are playing the run better part of that is Adams and part of that is the linebackers can play closer to the line of scrimmage. They no longer have to protect a weak secondary underneath. Last year they allowed 4.9 yards a rush this year so far just 3 yards a rush. Pass rush requires some major improvement but it is still early.

 

[Chapow]

To be fair, we are not the worst. But we are easily, easily bottom-five.

Just curious how you're coming to the conclusion that we are easily, easily bottom five?

9 teams have given up more points than we have in the first 2 weeks of the season, and the Packers have given up the same amount of points as us.

I think it's pretty fair to say that we've just squeaked into the bottom 10, but I don't think I can agree that we are worse than teams that are giving up more points than we are.

 

[Ad Hawk]

I'm not saying this defense isn't pretty bad, but I'm not so sure they're the worst, or even one of the worst, in the league. They might be, but I think that remains to be seen.

15 teams gave up at least as many points as the Seahawks did this week, and the Saints and Raiders have yet to play.

Matt Ryan and the Falcons managed to put up 18 points against us in the first 59 minutes of the game last week (congrats to Ryan on a ton of garbage time yardage, I guess). Those same Falcons just put up 39 on the Cowboys yesterday.

There are also tons of examples of teams, and units, improving throughout the course of the season. The Chiefs defense was pretty damn bad for the first 10 or so weeks of last season, but played much better down the stretch.

I'm not AT ALL trying to say the D isn't a problem, I'm just suggesting that maybe it's a wee bit early to be throwing in the towel and declaring that we can't win anything with this defense.

Side note, I wonder how Pats fans are feeling about their D today? They just watched their defense get shredded for 35 points and more passing TDs in 1 game than they gave up all of last season.

Reasonable thoughts, and great perspective.

It's very early, and we had a lead in both games playing prevent/conservative.

 

[AROS]

I agree it's far too early to hit the panic button but boy I need to see some legitimate improvement on that D line right quick. Norton doesn't instill confidence at this point either. LB coach? Sure. DC? Nope. Not seeing it.

 

[The Breh]

Means we'll see a whole lot more of Brooks, Amadi, Robinson and Green when the latter two are healthy.
A positive game and confidence booster for Collier.
Big J Reed may rekindle his past energy.
My glass is half full.

 

[OrangeGravy]

To be fair, we are not the worst. But we are easily, easily bottom-five.

If Dak does this to us, it only cements what we are seeing right now.

The interesting thing is this is after a win. What happens when Wilson scores 33 and we lose?

This place is going to go crazy.

I mean, given it's unlikely much will change between this week and next Dak will certainly put up some big numbers. They have 3 very solid WR's and a top 5 run game, Jamal will need to be everywhere next week. Dak only struggles when the defensive line flusters him, which as we've seen for 2 weeks against lesser OL's will not be the case. Will come down to what they do within the red zone, if they can limit them to FG's and not all TD's.

We somehow have gone full KC model with an awesome high flying offense and a defense that might still lose the game if the offense scores 35 points.

Isn't that what everyone wants? Score a lot, pass a lot, rack up tons FF points?

 

[OrangeGravy]

I didn't come into the game until mid way 3rd quarter. When did Diggs get tossed? Could that not have posed significant problems along with Irvin going down? Adams constantly matched up with Julian is certainly not how you draw it up pre-game. Defense isn't great or even above average, but as long as Diggs/Adams are healthy, I think it will be mostly good enough. Pass rush isn't gonna get fixed to any remarkable level this season.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

To be fair, we are not the worst. But we are easily, easily bottom-five.

If Dak does this to us, it only cements what we are seeing right now.

The interesting thing is this is after a win. What happens when Wilson scores 33 and we lose?

This place is going to go crazy.

I mean, given it's unlikely much will change between this week and next Dak will certainly put up some big numbers. They have 3 very solid WR's and a top 5 run game, Jamal will need to be everywhere next week. Dak only struggles when the defensive line flusters him, which as we've seen for 2 weeks against lesser OL's will not be the case. Will come down to what they do within the red zone, if they can limit them to FG's and not all TD's.

We somehow have gone full KC model with an awesome high flying offense and a defense that might still lose the game if the offense scores 35 points.

Isn't that what everyone wants? Score a lot, pass a lot, rack up tons FF points?

Bingo.

People pretend it's about rallying to a statistically optimal strategy. It's not.

 

[Smellyman]

need some juice off the edge.

Only feasible thing now is Shaquem Griffin, D'Andre Walker and Alton Robinson.

Unless some edge rusher fall magically from the sky.

 

[FlyingGreg]

People might be overrating Dan Quinn just a bit. If he is such a guru, how come he has never had a good defense in Atlanta?

In Seattle, the dude had a defense with Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Red Bryant, Chris Clemons, Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, Clinton McDonald, Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, KJ Wright, Malcolm Smith, Kam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner and Byron Maxwell. Many of those guys were young, in their prime, and hungry. He had great depth at every level of the defense. Two for sure Hall of Famers (bolded), and Earl might have a chance, too. Several others will be Seahawks Ring of Honor members, IMO (KJ and Kam).

Heck, I could have coordinated that defense.

I'm not sure Quinn could come in and fix whatever needs to be fixed with the same players we currently have. If it was that clear, Pete would fix it - it's HIS defense, after all. It's not as much scheme as it is talent. They are trying to be creative to mitigate the lack of push from the front four (I think Norton is a very "meh" coordinator, but I'll give him credit here) - but the creativity is mostly using Jamal Adams on blitzes.

It's not the recipe, per se; it's the ingredients.

They had the entire off-season to address the pass rush, and they screwed it up and went piecemeal and cheap. Instead of paying the likes of Greg Olsen, BJ Finney and Phillip Dorset (that's what, $13 million right there?) ... they could have and should have put the money towards Everson Griffen or traded for Yannick Ngakoue, or any number of other options across the board. Maybe they tried and it just didn't happen? I don't know.

The whole player management plan this off-season seemed weird.

Pass rush was the most glaring need after last season, and they responded by signing Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa (complimentary pieces); "hoping" LJ Collier would pop; and drafting Darrell Taylor in the 1st round, a guy we won't likely even see until halfway into the season who hasn't had ANY kind of off-season reps and who, just yesterday, Pete basically threw under the bus (in the nice manner in which Pete does it) for being lazy in his off-season workouts.

I also think they were hoping Reed would return to his 2018 form and be a penetrating presence in the middle, but more and more that season looks like a fluke and more about Frank Clark's presence than Reed himself.

Robinson will finally be active this week, so let's see what he can do. They need to give Shaqueem another shot, and add Cameron Wake or Clay Matthews or whomever. Contracts are not guaranteed, so why not? If it doesn't work out, cut bait.

They have to do SOMETHING.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Get Thor on this team, he can help. And I really didn't care either way about Matthews being here. Now, we flat out need to add him if we can.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

The whole player management plan this off-season seemed weird.

Pass rush was the most glaring need after last season, and they responded by signing Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa (complimentary pieces); "hoping" LJ Collier would pop; and drafting Darrell Taylor in the 1st round, a guy we won't likely even see until halfway into the season who hasn't had ANY kind of off-season reps and who, just yesterday, Pete basically threw under the bus (in the nice manner in which Pete does it) for being lazy in his off-season workouts.

I also think they were hoping Reed would return to his 2018 form and be a penetrating presence in the middle, but more and more that season looks like a fluke and more about Frank Clark's presence than Reed himself.

Robinson will finally be active this week, so let's see what he can do. They need to give Shaqueem another shot, and add Cameron Wake or Clay Matthews or whomever. Contracts are not guaranteed, so why not? If it doesn't work out, cut bait.

They have to do SOMETHING.

We have the same guy executing the same scheme. It's not just us now who are looking through newly minted FAs that their last team didn't want to retain and there will only be more of that. If it's down to not having serviceable guys then sure get Mathews or reach out to Kendricks, who's a present FA. Only thing I disagree with on the above is elevating Quem as a solution; both BK and esp Barton played the position more last year and have more development upside so I'd rather see more focus put on them.

But as someone earlier said, the time to make the big decisions on overall questions was more in March. It's kinda late for us to do anything other than go with the status quo and the goals that come with it, which have been to make the offense so dominant as a way to ameliorate the weaknesses on the d, that start with scheme, which largely has been baked in with the present coaching personnel.

 

[RockinHawks]

Matthews and/ or Wake would add much needed experience and fight with rushing the passer. 'Quem would add some juice and Alton Robinson will take some time, but has shown talent.

No matter what we do, we'll need to be patient. If we score a lot, the other team will throw a lot, that means refs ignoring holds and letting them play, we may get some pressure, we may not. We should probably need to figure out who will fill Amadi's role as backup, now that he's in the Blair role.

I say sign Matthews to fill the Irvin void and sign Miller from the PS to get some meaningful reps in with the backup DB role...as Hill will be getting a lot of time in with Amadi. The one thing I hate seeing is Neiko Thorpe playing defense. Woof...he was in on that last play, running around like he's supposed to be there. Yikes...

I for one am pretty stoked about the amount of points we are putting up and stopping our first two opponents in critical situations.