Seahawks, Niners still NFL's two best teams, all drama aside

[kidhawk]

[urltargetblank]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000360273/article/seahawks-niners-still-nfls-two-best-teams-all-drama-aside[/urltargetblank]

Nice write-up about how overblown things can be in the off season, and how even with all the drama aside, the Seahawks and Niners are still the teams to beat

Stop the overreaction. End the nonsense. Unless injuries befall the young star quarterbacks or the fantastic coaches suddenly go on permanent and unprecedented vacations, there's nothing to see here. There isn't a drip or drop of news in the wild world of sports that can take San Francisco and Seattle off their perch as the two most talented teams in the NFL.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They clearly are the best 2 teams in the league, no doubt.

 

[OkieHawk]

I caught that article just a bit ago, great read and spot on IMO.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Nice read. The rare look at reality.

The Niners and Hawks are just completely different teams than the rest. Carolina is a poor man's version and have a lot of questions in the passing game on both sides of the ball.

 

[seahawk12thman]

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

 

[Marvin49]

Nice read. The rare look at reality.

The Niners and Hawks are just completely different teams than the rest. Carolina is a poor man's version and have a lot of questions in the passing game on both sides of the ball.

Couldn't have said it better in regard to the Panthers.

 

[Marvin49]

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

Edited for language attacking a poster rather than a post by radish.

I really, really hope you are referring to 2012 and not 2013 and 2014. The 2014 players haven't even played yet and the Niners draft is considered one of the best (but you never really know till they play).

As for 2013....

Reid (Pro Bowl alt as a rookie)
Tank Carradine (would have been 1st rounder if not fir injury. Red-shirted)
Vance McDonald (raw but very athletic TE....looking good in minicamp this year, but was never going to start with Vernon ahead of him)
Corey Lemonier (backup OLB, played well when Aldon was out)
Quinton Patton (broke his foot so missed most of the year but looked good late and has looked good in minicamp)
Marcus Lattimore (was always going to redshirt)

I won't go into the later round guys...even though a few have looked pretty good.

Good teams don't usually have huge impacts from rookies. Their starters are already good.

Did the Seattle draft suck last year? By your rules it did since none of them started.

Come on man....have a clue.

 

[kidhawk]

Is it ironic that this thread is turning into overreaction?

 

[TriCHawk]

Is it ironic that this thread is turning into overreaction?

No, just par for the course.

 

[kearly]

I like the fact that people generally view Seattle and SF as the two best teams in the NFL. It's good for the rivalry, it's good for media attention, and it's good for fans of those franchises and it's good for the league.

That said, Seattle and SF are not the two best teams in the league.

Seattle is clearly #1. They ranked #1 with a comfortable margin in DVOA each of the last two seasons, and last season they also ranked #1 in Advanced NFL Stats team efficiency rankings as well.

SF... ranked #7 in DVOA last season, and ranked #6 by Advanced NFL stats. SF was close to being a top two team in 2012, but not so much in 2013.

I think if you want to argue SF as the #2 team in football in 2014, you'd have to put a lot of stock in the improvement at WR. SF did play significantly better after Crabtree returned, and Johnson is a good slot receiver. But their defense is getting older and their two best defensive players have issues to deal with this season (Smith, legal; Bowman, injury).

I think it is a much more accurate description to say they are two elite teams, but the two best teams seems like a stretch. I know Denver just got their asses kicked, but over the last two seasons overall they've been easily the NFL's second best team.

 

[seahawk12thman]

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

edited

I really, really hope you are referring to 2012 and not 2013 and 2014. The 2014 players haven't even played yet and the Niners draft is considered one of the best (but you never really know till they play).

As for 2013....

Reid (Pro Bowl alt as a rookie)
Tank Carradine (would have been 1st rounder if not fir injury. Red-shirted)
Vance McDonald (raw but very athletic TE....looking good in minicamp this year, but was never going to start with Vernon ahead of him)
Corey Lemonier (backup OLB, played well when Aldon was out)
Quinton Patton (broke his foot so missed most of the year but looked good late and has looked good in minicamp)
Marcus Lattimore (was always going to redshirt)

I won't go into the later round guys...even though a few have looked pretty good.

Good teams don't usually have huge impacts from rookies. Their starters are already good.

Did the Seattle draft suck last year? By your rules it did since none of them started.

Come on man....have a clue.

Already mentioned Reid (didn't mention his high number of concussions, hopefully that doesn't shorten his career)

1) McDonald is getting roasted by the Webzone for his drops (17% which is atrocious) and our own Willson (his brother at Rice) started and had better stats than McDonald who was a rookie and started LOL.

2) I am not referring to 2014's draft because that is all hype like ours. Everybody is an all pro if you read the tabloids so lets put this years crop aside
.
3) You have already conceded 2012 so by that admission alone I am 50% right LOL.

4) Tank Carradine and Marcus Lattimore didn't play, till they do, can't say they were good picks. Lattimore has had hamstring issues and Harbaugh himself has said they will not know about him till he is in full pads and playing at game speed. Carradine will keep his explosiveness but his strength maybe compromised. Apparently Joe Staley owned him in practice (albeit Staley is elite), nothing to report yet about Carradine.

5)Patton has done nothing and had been invisible. And yes he has been hurt but he hasn't been a factor.

6) Corey Lemonier 16 games, 12 tackles, 1 sack. ukeface: Best games were 3 tackles against Rams and Cardinals. KJ Wright had 50 tackles his rookie year playing outside linebacker.

Our rookies from 2012, 2013
2012
Bruce Irvin Starter and was 4th best rated linebacker
Bobby Wagner Starting linebacker and will be a pro bowler this year, should have been one last year.
Russell Wilson need I say more
Robert Turbin backup running back
Jay Howard rotational player for Chiefs even though he didn't make it here.
Korey Toomer Pete has said he has been the best player in camp.
Jeremy Lane Starting nickel this year
Winston Guy, ok our first scrub drafted didn't have enough room, is with Jacksonville.
JR Sweezy starting right guard
Greg Scruggs, has yet to play

2013

Christine Michael - Schneider said he and Harvin are the most explosive on the team and will be a significant contributor. Hard to supplant Beast Mode LOL
Jordan Hill played in rotation till he got hurt but got a sack and was disruptive till he was injured.
Jesse Williams, yet to produce
Therold Simon Yet to crack legion of Boom but will start this or next year.
Luke Willson Starting tight end with Miller
Ryan Seymour stolen by the Niners (Since their draft sucked why not steel ours LOL)
Ty Powell Gone
Jared Smith practice squad.
Michael Bowie (Starter for half our games including a playoff game).

With regard to the rest of your team what am I wrong about?
Gore 30+
Boldin 30+
Davis 30+ and holding out
Willis 29 but will turn 30 during playoffs.
Brooks 30+
J Smith 30+
Bowman is gone and nobody know when he will be back.
A Smith will be suspended but nobody know how long??

What exactly do I need to get a clue on?

 

[Jville]

I like the fact that people generally view Seattle and SF as the two best teams in the NFL. It's good for the rivalry, it's good for media attention, and it's good for fans of those franchises and it's good for the league.

That said, Seattle and SF are not the two best teams in the league.

Seattle is clearly #1. They ranked #1 with a comfortable margin in DVOA each of the last two seasons, and last season they also ranked #1 in Advanced NFL Stats team efficiency rankings as well.

SF... ranked #7 in DVOA last season, and ranked #6 by Advanced NFL stats. SF was close to being a top two team in 2012, but not so much in 2013.

I think if you want to argue SF as the #2 team in football in 2014, you'd have to put a lot of stock in the improvement at WR. SF did play significantly better after Crabtree returned, and Johnson is a good slot receiver. But their defense is getting older and their two best defensive players have issues to deal with this season (Smith, legal; Bowman, injury).

I think it is a much more accurate description to say they are two elite teams, but the two best teams seems like a stretch. I know Denver just got their asses kicked, but over the last two seasons overall they've been easily the NFL's second best team.

I'm looking forward to August 7th preseason game in Denver.

 

[NorCal]

snip

I'd put forth that judging either team's draft from the last 2 or 3 years is premature. Both teams have a large core of starters and both teams have been mostly drafting for replacements in the future, not necessarily starters today (with some certain exceptions, but not generally). Yes, some guys on the Niners are getting "older" but aren't really old. Only a couple may be considered "old" but the Niners have drafted guys who they envision will replace them. I think SEA has largely done the same thing. Thats how you keep teams good for the long haul.

 

[seahawk12thman]

snip

I'd put forth that judging either team's draft from the last 2 or 3 years is premature. Both teams have a large core of starters and both teams have been mostly drafting for replacements in the future, not necessarily starters today (with some certain exceptions, but not generally). Yes, some guys on the Niners are getting "older" but aren't really old. Only a couple may be considered "old" but the Niners have drafted guys who they envision will replace them. I think SEA has largely done the same thing. Thats how you keep teams good for the long haul.

Niners might be elite again, I just pointed out reason that I personally have doubts about. Keep something else in mind, your team has been to the NFC Championship three straight years, that is quite a pounding for a team that has 5 starters 30 and over and a 29 year old set to turn the big three zero. That is very hard to do so for that I solute the Niners. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[Marvin49]

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

edited

I really, really hope you are referring to 2012 and not 2013 and 2014. The 2014 players haven't even played yet and the Niners draft is considered one of the best (but you never really know till they play).

As for 2013....

Reid (Pro Bowl alt as a rookie)
Tank Carradine (would have been 1st rounder if not fir injury. Red-shirted)
Vance McDonald (raw but very athletic TE....looking good in minicamp this year, but was never going to start with Vernon ahead of him)
Corey Lemonier (backup OLB, played well when Aldon was out)
Quinton Patton (broke his foot so missed most of the year but looked good late and has looked good in minicamp)
Marcus Lattimore (was always going to redshirt)

I won't go into the later round guys...even though a few have looked pretty good.

Good teams don't usually have huge impacts from rookies. Their starters are already good.

Did the Seattle draft suck last year? By your rules it did since none of them started.

Come on man....have a clue.

Already mentioned Reid (didn't mention his high number of concussions, hopefully that doesn't shorten his career)

1) McDonald is getting roasted by the Webzone for his drops (17% which is atrocious) and our own Willson (his brother at Rice) started and had better stats than McDonald who was a rookie and started LOL.

2) I am not referring to 2014's draft because that is all hype like ours. Everybody is an all pro if you read the tabloids so lets put this years crop aside
.
3) You have already conceded 2012 so by that admission alone I am 50% right LOL.

4) Tank Carradine and Marcus Lattimore didn't play, till they do, can't say they were good picks. Lattimore has had hamstring issues and Harbaugh himself has said they will not know about him till he is in full pads and playing at game speed. Carradine will keep his explosiveness but his strength maybe compromised. Apparently Joe Staley owned him in practice (albeit Staley is elite), nothing to report yet about Carradine.

5)Patton has done nothing and had been invisible. And yes he has been hurt but he hasn't been a factor.

6) Corey Lemonier 16 games, 12 tackles, 1 sack. ukeface: Best games were 3 tackles against Rams and Cardinals. KJ Wright had 50 tackles his rookie year playing outside linebacker.

Our rookies from 2012, 2013
2012
Bruce Irvin Starter and was 4th best rated linebacker
Bobby Wagner Starting linebacker and will be a pro bowler this year, should have been one last year.
Russell Wilson need I say more
Robert Turbin backup running back
Jay Howard rotational player for Chiefs even though he didn't make it here.
Korey Toomer Pete has said he has been the best player in camp.
Jeremy Lane Starting nickel this year
Winston Guy, ok our first scrub drafted didn't have enough room, is with Jacksonville.
JR Sweezy starting right guard
Greg Scruggs, has yet to play

2013

Christine Michael - Schneider said he and Harvin are the most explosive on the team and will be a significant contributor. Hard to supplant Beast Mode LOL
Jordan Hill played in rotation till he got hurt but got a sack and was disruptive till he was injured.
Jesse Williams, yet to produce
Therold Simon Yet to crack legion of Boom but will start this or next year.
Luke Willson Starting tight end with Miller
Ryan Seymour stolen by the Niners (Since their draft sucked why not steel ours LOL)
Ty Powell Gone
Jared Smith practice squad.
Michael Bowie (Starter for half our games including a playoff game).

With regard to the rest of your team what am I wrong about?
Gore 30+
Boldin 30+
Davis 30+ and holding out
Willis 29 but will turn 30 during playoffs.
Brooks 30+
J Smith 30+
Bowman is gone and nobody know when he will be back.
A Smith will be suspended but nobody know how long??

What exactly do I need to get a clue on?

First off, I was responding the bolded...that's why I, you know, bolded it. I wasn't responding the age comment.

1) McDonald had 9 catches all year because he was largely a blocker and FB. He was also a rookie with Vernon Davis in front of him. He's not going to be a star TE when one of the best in the NFL is already on the team.

2) I'm glad.

3) 2012 is a big part of the 2013 draft since the Niners had so many picks in 2013 because they traded down and out of 2012.

4) No sh*t they didn't play. That doesn't mean they suck. That means they were drafted lower than they could have because they were injured. I guess the 2014 draft sucks already then because Brandon Thomas, Kieth Reaser, and Trey Millard won't play either. Man....sucks when your draft is a bust before the guys you knew wouldn't play in fact don't play. Wait...wha?

5) Patton looks good. Can't help a broken foot.

6) Lemonier didn't start, but there are people on this board who liked him and see his potential. Of course Wright had much better stats....HE'S A STARTER. LOL. Lemonier was a backup to possibly the best LB corps in the NFL.


Finally, I don't give 2 sh*ts about who the Seahawks drafted. It's not the point. I'm not the one suggesting they drafted poorly.

I don't have to show that every guy the 49ers picked was a pro bowler. All I have to show is that the statement that "their last two drafts have been colossal flops" is completely ludicrous...and it is.

Good teams don't have to start rookies. That's what is happening here. That's the same reason the Seahawks didn't draft a starter last year.

 

[Marvin49]

I like the fact that people generally view Seattle and SF as the two best teams in the NFL. It's good for the rivalry, it's good for media attention, and it's good for fans of those franchises and it's good for the league.

That said, Seattle and SF are not the two best teams in the league.

Seattle is clearly #1. They ranked #1 with a comfortable margin in DVOA each of the last two seasons, and last season they also ranked #1 in Advanced NFL Stats team efficiency rankings as well.

SF... ranked #7 in DVOA last season, and ranked #6 by Advanced NFL stats. SF was close to being a top two team in 2012, but not so much in 2013.

I think if you want to argue SF as the #2 team in football in 2014, you'd have to put a lot of stock in the improvement at WR. SF did play significantly better after Crabtree returned, and Johnson is a good slot receiver. But their defense is getting older and their two best defensive players have issues to deal with this season (Smith, legal; Bowman, injury).

I think it is a much more accurate description to say they are two elite teams, but the two best teams seems like a stretch. I know Denver just got their asses kicked, but over the last two seasons overall they've been easily the NFL's second best team.

I see how you get there. Can't argue too much.

From the moment Crabtree was hurt last year it felt like the 49ers were playing under a cloud. Just couldn't ever quite seem to get everything working on all cylinders

Crabtree getting hurt, Vernon getting hurt, Willis getting hurt, Aldon and his legal and personal problems...just always seemed to be something holding them back.

They turned a corner at the end and just lost in one of the best games I've ever seen.

They start off this year already under that cloud again with Aldon still in question and Bowman out for a significant amount of time. We'll just have to see if they can fight through it the way they did last year to have a shot there at the end.

 

[seahawk12thman]

Guess I touched a nerve. :thfight7:

One reliable starter in two years is a flop and a possible disaster in my book. Yes the book isn't closed but how can this not be a disappointment? You had positions of need despite your success. Wide receiver, opposite tight end (I know the Niners drafted McDonald for more than blocking), D tackle, Corner and until Reid you had needs at the safety position knowing you were probably going to lose Whitner and yet only 1 reliable starter?? As NorCal said, we will find out this year for 2013.

 

[RolandDeschain]

A refreshingly honest and well-written look at things by a member of the media. Not common. Everyone should read it, but for those that want a TL;DNR, it basically says there's no reason to go all chicken little over news in the off-season.

 

[Marvin49]

Guess I touched a nerve. :thfight7:

One reliable starter in two years is a flop and a possible disaster in my book. Yes the book isn't closed but how can this not be a disappointment? You had positions of need despite your success. Wide receiver, opposite tight end (I know the Niners drafted McDonald for more than blocking), D tackle, Corner and until Reid you had needs at the safety position knowing you were probably going to lose Whitner and yet only 1 reliable starter?? As NorCal said, we will find out this year for 2013.

I got no prob labeling 2012 as a disappointment. Saying that about 2013 is just homerism. If there is nobody from that draft in a few years....ok....THEN you can make that case. When players they KNEW wouldn't play don't play its really hollow to call that disappointment. How can you be disappointed when it's what you expected?

The only position where there was even a chance for a rookie to become a starter was at FS where their rookie player became a Pro Bowl alternate. What other position did they have such a huge need for that they ever would have started a rookie?

The only position I can think of is WR where Patton broke his hand in camp and then broke his foot in a game.