Seahawks at Niners 11/11...

[Popeyejones]

Agree. I think the decision was made by Kyle this season to stop the pass first - hence the wide 9.

They're running the wide 9 because they hired Kris Kocurek as the d-line coach, and that's what Kocurek does.

They hired Kocurek because after he was let go with the rest of Adam Gase's staff Saleh brought Kocurek's name to Shanahan and said that he wanted him.

From all of their offseason moves I think it's obvious that they recognized the pass rush as an issue, but the scheme change is a story about Saleh more than it's a story about Shanahan (who just went along with it).

 

[Marvin49]

Well that's just peachy. Sigh.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1192479108351037441[/tweet]

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

From NFL.com:

The 36-year-old Gould has struggled this season, connecting on just 13 of 20 field-goal attempts, putting him on pace for a career-low 65 percent. Gould has made all 26 of his extra-point tries.

Vinitieri is 71 percent for comparison.

Methinks that both teams are gonna try for more than usual 4 and 3s on MNF.

 

[Marvin49]

From NFL.com:

The 36-year-old Gould has struggled this season, connecting on just 13 of 20 field-goal attempts, putting him on pace for a career-low 65 percent. Gould has made all 26 of his extra-point tries.

Vinitieri is 71 percent for comparison.

Methinks that both teams are gonna try for more than usual 4 and 3s on MNF.

He has struggled a bit this year, but I think more than a little of that was replacement long snappers (they went through like 3) who were filling in for suspended regular long snapper and rookie holder (P Mitch Wichnowski).

Regular Longsnapper is back...just in time for kicker to be hurt. LOL.

 

[Giedi]

Agree. I think the decision was made by Kyle this season to stop the pass first - hence the wide 9.

They're running the wide 9 because they hired Kris Kocurek as the d-line coach, and that's what Kocurek does.

They hired Kocurek because after he was let go with the rest of Adam Gase's staff Saleh brought Kocurek's name to Shanahan and said that he wanted him.

From all of their offseason moves I think it's obvious that they recognized the pass rush as an issue, but the scheme change is a story about Saleh more than it's a story about Shanahan (who just went along with it).

My understanding about Kocurek was that he gave Kyle a whole bunch of problems with his offense when he played against a Kocurek coached defense -- with (I think) the Lions and possibly the Dolphins. Because of that he was a fan of Kocurek's philosophy which isn't that far removed from Monte Kiffen's attacking gap penetration style (a la Seifert/Carroll 4-3 under). So when Kocurek became available Kyle decided to upgrde the DLine position - specially when the DLine squad wasn't performing up to snuff. But what do I know, I'm just a fan. :mrgreen:

 

[Giedi]

From NFL.com:

The 36-year-old Gould has struggled this season, connecting on just 13 of 20 field-goal attempts, putting him on pace for a career-low 65 percent. Gould has made all 26 of his extra-point tries.

Vinitieri is 71 percent for comparison.

Methinks that both teams are gonna try for more than usual 4 and 3s on MNF.

He has struggled a bit this year, but I think more than a little of that was replacement long snappers (they went through like 3) who were filling in for suspended regular long snapper and rookie holder (P Mitch Wichnowski).

Regular Longsnapper is back...just in time for kicker to be hurt. LOL.

Well, from what I understand - it's not a season ending or career ending injury, thank god. He could be back in a week or possibly more, but hopefully he'll be ready and healthy if we make the playoffs.

 

[Uncle Si]

Anyone saying Seattle winning would be an upset is blind. There is no possible way to stop Wilson at this point. The Seahawks are good for approaching thirty points no matter what defense they play because of it. The only exception to that is if both teams successfully run the football.

If both do not, the advantage goes to the team whose qb is better at converting crucial downs. I’m not dissing Jimmy G, who has been plenty clutch, but come on... have you watched Wilson this year? Whatever advantage the 49ers have in overall roster is completely offset by Wilson.

The confidence level is not high for either fan base right now, apparently. Things are a little weird right now.

FiveThirtyEight model has this at about a 70% SF win. That seems right with the SF defense playing as well as it has been and the record and the home field.

I think that makes the most sense.

While the Seattle offense, specifically Wilson, is a level about the 9ers, their defense is several levels above the Hawks. It will take a monumental effort by Wilson, one we can all imagine. However, it will also take something unexpected from the defense.

I can see this looking a bit like the two Rams games last season, where the Hawks D makes enough plays to keep it close, but not like the game this year where they gave the Seahawks a better than 50-50 shot at winning

 

[Popeyejones]

Agree. I think the decision was made by Kyle this season to stop the pass first - hence the wide 9.

They're running the wide 9 because they hired Kris Kocurek as the d-line coach, and that's what Kocurek does.

They hired Kocurek because after he was let go with the rest of Adam Gase's staff Saleh brought Kocurek's name to Shanahan and said that he wanted him.

From all of their offseason moves I think it's obvious that they recognized the pass rush as an issue, but the scheme change is a story about Saleh more than it's a story about Shanahan (who just went along with it).

My understanding about Kocurek was that he gave Kyle a whole bunch of problems with his offense when he played against a Kocurek coached defense -- with (I think) the Lions and possibly the Dolphins. Because of that he was a fan of Kocurek's philosophy which isn't that far removed from Monte Kiffen's attacking gap penetration style (a la Seifert/Carroll 4-3 under). So when Kocurek became available Kyle decided to upgrde the DLine position - specially when the DLine squad wasn't performing up to snuff. But what do I know, I'm just a fan. :mrgreen:

We're both just fans.

In how it came about I was paraphrasing this, published ealier this week:

Adding Kris Kocurek. Niners DC Robert Saleh and Kocurek, who’d been Miami’s d-line coach in 2018) had a relationship through common friends Frank Bush, Tony Oden and Martin Mayhew. And Kocurek was available, after Adam Gase was fired as Dolphins coach. Saleh brought the idea to Kyle Shanahan. Shanahan hired him, and the rest is history.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/11/04/russe ... eek-9-mmqb

 

[Marvin49]

Boy, this day is a bundle of joy. LOL.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/hutchdiesel/status/1192540289212137475[/tweet]

 

[Maulbert]

Boy, this day is a bundle of joy. LOL.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/hutchdiesel/status/1192540289212137475[/tweet]

Kittle murdered us last year. I don't wish injury on anyone, but I wouldn't mind if it held him out.

 

[Popeyejones]

Kittle is the singleost important on the entire team. That includes QB. I'm not being hyperbolic.

 

[Fade]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/hawkblogger/status/1192117494669922305[/tweet]

Interesting chart for sure. Something has got to give. If our D is as good as we are boasting, going agaisnt a better offense like the Seahawks won't matter and we can shut them down like the others. We can only play who is on our schedule. We will see if a better O can handle our pass rush. How is your Oline? If not good then I doubt your offense will be too effective.

If not then you will be able to score effectively and the game will be super close with no advantage to one side or the other except the home field. If our pass rush does not get to Wilson then it could be a long night defensively and we can be exposed like the Pats.

Thanks for posting. Adds even more intrigue to this game.

Edit: Also, the Chargers completely shut down the Packers who are ranked 4th on your chart. So if they could do that I'd expect us to be able to shut them down as well. This would render this chart moot. We will see Monday.

Whut??????

Seattle has never had a good O-Line with Wilson under center. He has been the best QB ever when throwing under pressure. Both in his full body of work, and this season.

That is his game, it's kind of what he does.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/LordReebs/status/1191354954998525952[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Pat_Thorman/status/1183688509971935232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Jeff/status/1192464483161034757[/tweet]

Take note of the O-Line Ranking.

To beat Wilson you have to get him on the ground, pressuring him is not good enough, he kills defenses otherwise.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Kittle was a DNP today, he is day to day

https://www.ninersnation.com/2019/11/7/ ... kle-issues

 

[Marvin49]

Kittle was a DNP today, he is day to day

https://www.ninersnation.com/2019/11/7/ ... kle-issues

Yeah, if he's not a go on Monday that's a tall order. Not only is he their leading receiver, so much of their running game is wrapped up in him.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

That Arizona field, man. It's like there's a curse there for divisional rivals.

I really questioned them letting Kittle go back in after the hit. You could see even with the presumed Torodol on board that he was playing hurt--winced just watching him.

Anyway with Gould I wonder if something's going on other than a short-term injury.

Here are his 2019 stats: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... drob01.htm

Their LS came back for Carolina, I believe, but he's only been used for one FGA since then.

 

[Marvin49]

That Arizona field, man. It's like there's a curse there for divisional rivals.

I really questioned them letting Kittle go back in after the hit. You could see even with the presumed Torodol on board that he was playing hurt--winced just watching him.

I'd love to blame the turf, but had more to do with Chandler Jones helmet.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

On our side, looks like Josh Gordon might not be the insta-plug-and-play that Sanders has been:

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers ... rroll-says

But that target might not be ready to suit up for Seattle on Monday night against the 49ers. Wide receiver Josh Gordon's status still is up in the air, as of Thursday.

"Some teams would just throw him out there," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said Thursday in a phone conference with Bay Area reporters. "We're not doing that. We like our guys and all that. We'd love to see if he can complement and help us. We don't know [his status] yet."

 

[Popeyejones]

On our side, looks like Josh Gordon might not be the insta-plug-and-play that Sanders has been:

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers ... rroll-says

But that target might not be ready to suit up for Seattle on Monday night against the 49ers. Wide receiver Josh Gordon's status still is up in the air, as of Thursday.

"Some teams would just throw him out there," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said Thursday in a phone conference with Bay Area reporters. "We're not doing that. We like our guys and all that. We'd love to see if he can complement and help us. We don't know [his status] yet."

FWIW it is to the Seahawks advantage for the 49ers to not know if Gordon will play, just as it is to the 9ers advantage for the Hawks to not know if Kittle will play.

Who the heck knows but if I had to bet one combination I'd bet they both play and are both announced day of.

 

[knownone]

It's crazy to me how people in the media can give Wilson credit while also under selling his potential to win games on his own. No self respecting NFL fan would delve into absolutes about a teams chances against other great QB's like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or even Aaron Rodgers. So why do they under sell Wilson because of the Hawks defense?

I know, the Hawks had some nail biters against bad teams, but they won because of Wilson's ability to take over games at any time. Seattle's played 9 games, Russell's dominated 8 of them. In one of the losses Russell struggled. In the other loss, it took the defense and special teams giving up 24 points on fluky plays to keep Wilson from having a chance. But somehow he doesn't have a chance because the Niners pass rush is good and the Hawks defense sucks?

Consider this:

Seattle's played 3 teams in the top 5 in terms of pass rush: Wilson completed 71% of his passes for 1001 yards, 7 TDs, 0 Ints, with a QBR of 117. He was sacked 7 times.

They've played 4 teams in the top 15 of hurries and pass defense: Wilson completed 66% of his passes for 1215 yards, 10 TDs, 1 Ints, with a QBR of 110. He was sacked 6 times.

So... Why are people in the media acting like the Niners should absolutely win this game? Why am I seeing all of this non-sense about the Niners being a significantly better team than the Hawks? Look they might be, but it's only week 10, and a Niners loss leaves them with only a half game lead over the Hawks.

I don't get it... If you only listened to the media talk about this game, then you'd think the Hawks were a 5-4 team with a plucky play-maker at QB going up against the 85 Bears, instead of a 7-2 team with a potential MVP at QB.

 

[Marvin49]

It's crazy to me how people in the media can give Wilson credit while also under selling his potential to win games on his own. No self respecting NFL fan would delve into absolutes about a teams chances against other great QB's like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or even Aaron Rodgers. So why do they under sell Wilson because of the Hawks defense?

I know, the Hawks had some nail biters against bad teams, but they won because of Wilson's ability to take over games at any time. Seattle's played 9 games, Russell's dominated 8 of them. In one of the losses Russell struggled. In the other loss, it took the defense and special teams giving up 24 points on fluky plays to keep Wilson from having a chance. But somehow he doesn't have a chance because the Niners pass rush is good and the Hawks defense sucks?

Consider this:

Seattle's played 3 teams in the top 5 in terms of pass rush: Wilson completed 71% of his passes for 1001 yards, 7 TDs, 0 Ints, with a QBR of 117. He was sacked 7 times.

They've played 4 teams in the top 15 of hurries and pass defense: Wilson completed 66% of his passes for 1215 yards, 10 TDs, 1 Ints, with a QBR of 110. He was sacked 6 times.

So... Why are people in the media acting like the Niners should absolutely win this game? Why am I seeing all of this non-sense about the Niners being a significantly better team than the Hawks? Look they might be, but it's only week 10, and a Niners loss leaves them with only a half game lead over the Hawks.

I don't get it... If you only listened to the media talk about this game, then you'd think the Hawks were a 5-4 team with a plucky play-maker at QB going up against the 85 Bears, instead of a 7-2 team with a potential MVP at QB.

Again....perception is a funny thing.

All I hear is that the Saints are the best team in the NFC despite the fact that the 49ers are undefeated and have the best point differential (+133) in the NFC. The Saints are +39 and have a loss. Oh wait, they lost Brees so thats why they are the best...but they have one of the best backup QBs in the NFL. The Niners were playing their 4th and 5th tackles, neither of whom had played an NFL down, for over a month and kept winning handily.

All I hear is, "yeah, but they haven't played anyone". They played 2 5-3 teams and without playing the Niners they'd have been 5-2. Guess what? If they didn't lose to the Niners, the Steelers would have a winning record. Nobody takes into account that the records of those teams INCLUDES LOSSES TO THE 49ERS. This is why every single year people look at strength of schedule at the end of the year and are always like "well of course they played well, they had an easy schedule". Sigh. Sorry...pet peeve. Teams that win a lot will ALWAYS have a lower strength of schedule. Its math. LOL.

I see ESPN analysts saying the Seahawks will win because the 49ers haven't played anyone, yet if you look at common opponents with the Seahawks the margins of victory aren't even close. The Seahawks are 1-2 against teams with a winning record and the one win required a missed field goal. Why don't I hear "who have they played"? They played the Ravens and Saints...and lost. How is that somehow better than not having played them yet and why do the Panthers and Rams decisive wins (71-20 combined score) get glossed over?

This is not to make the argument that what you see and is bugging you isn't valid. I actually agree with you. The point is that its all relative and we are all ultra sensitive to it. There are no absolutes, but I think the "respect" argument is DRASTICALLY an issue of perspective.