Sam

[Dolomight12]

*Exotic deer zebra squirrel animal thingy munching popcorn.gif*

 

[SoulfishHawk]

28 PAGES!!!! Come on guys, we can hit 30 by tomorrow.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Here's more to munch on (@hgwellz12) with your popcorn.

It's difficult to deny that Sam can be one of the very best, as the first quarter against WA showed. But he can also throw a few head-scratchers. That's the problem with rankings, and confidence he'll be one of the best this next weekend.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, pressure Lame Dance Purdy and he ALSO can throw a few head-scratchers. The only reason they're even playing on Saturday is because the Eagles didn't take advantage of his TWO head scratchers.

 

[keasley45]

There is a reason no one agrees with you. He wasn't top 10 and isn't now.

I can't find a single thing in this paragraph I think is objective or right.

You're accusing everyone of the same thing almost everyone in this thread has accused you of. Is it possible you're partially wrong or is it more likely everyone else is wrong and youre the only one who's right?

I've been completely objective with Geno and Sam and if you want to go point by point to show me why I haven't then lets discuss it.

The idea no one called Geno elite is also false. I can name multiple people in here who called him elite. I'm not going to bring them back into this because everyone is tired of this debate but I can think of 3-4 right off the top of my head. Geno was borderline top 10 for half a season when he won the job. He hasn't been since then or the decade leading up to that. With that as your basis for someone being top 10 then what was Darnold to start the year? He would be too.

And you made the claime that the geno haters were russ lovers. I would make the same argument the other way. Almost every geno apologist hated Russ and its painfully obvious why that's the case.

Ozzy, I feel the exact same way about your stance as you do about mine.

The claim that one side 'hated player x' is entirely one sided. That was from the pro Russ crowd, the anti Geno crowd and now the pro Sam crowd. It's consistent.

The drumb beat was constant when Geno was here that nobody was saying he was elite. That wasn't good enough though. I can screenshot posts between us where I was saying he was squarely 12th (where he was a tualky paid by the FO) and you insisted that he was 17 to 20th. That's the reality. And it was constant. If you want to talk about 'hate', it was embarrassing how entirely anti-geno one side was before he even took a snap as a starter.

I was framed as hating Russ because I said his play was a hinderence to our future. That analysis really took root in 2019. Was I wrong?

I 'hated' Russ because I said he couldnt read the field. Was I wrong?

I was blasted and called a hater for saying that, contrary to every Russ supporter claiming coaching here was the problem, that if he ever landed on a team with a REAL, bonafied OC or HC who wanted a REAL offense run by a competent QB, his career would end quickly.
Was I wrong?

And when Geno came along and I thought he could do well and stated such, that 'hate' that I was accused of tossing at Russ was flipped to blind 'love' for Geno.

That's what you call projection. It's basic tribalism. Lines were drawn that I and others here didn't draw and didn't ask for and they still are.

Talking about QB play - I have asked you directly in a few threads in the past to answer basic, logical, questions about your stated position on our last QBs play that focused on the context in which he played and in which certain plays occured and you refused. Ironically that context that you didn't want to take into account you now use in defending Sam.

Bro, like who you like. Hate who you hate. But don't throw those labels on other people or distill their analysis to binary, baseless, emotional characterizations, because they think a player you don't like is pretty good, or see terminal flaws in a player who you loved.

I am beyond my days of investing in player jerseys and pulling for players because I like them. If the team isn't helped by a players performance - that's what matters.

If Sam lays an egg and looks like the dude he was last year or who has reared his head in 2026, I think we should keep looking for the franchise guy.

If Sam turns the corner and grows into the franchise guy we need, lock him up for the rest of his years and let's go win some championships.

 

[Hawknight]

Sam is going to play lights out this Saturday...I just hope by "lights out" he isn't playing with his eye's closed when throwing passes

 

[Ad Hawk]

Keasley, this is a good post overall; when posters make assumptions about your position on things, it becomes problematic.

But the Sam that "reared his head" this season also has had some of the best QB ratings of the decade at times, and he often made up for the failures, in that very same game with clutch performances. Your admitting these facts would probably go a long way toward lowering the temperature. As I read one of your posts that said we really have no deficiencies (yes, I read your stuff), I assume you mean the QB position as well.

The challenge is that sometimes we need to take the (exceptionally?) good with the (frustratingly or inopportune?) bad. As is always said with QB searches, you better have someone better proposed before throwing away what you have.

 

[glenwo2]

Here we are, and yes I'm part of it, arguing over a FORMER QB, who WANTED OUT. And we're 2 days away from the biggest game in a decade.

and people wonder why I don't get along with him... (and had to put him back on ignore again) sigh....

 

[glenwo2]

Sam is going to play lights out this Saturday...I just hope by "lights out" he isn't playing with his eye's closed when throwing passes

Meh.

Against this -EFENSE (without the D), he could throw TD passes with his eyes closed.

It's a matter of how the Running game is going.

If it's still rolling and dominating, there's no reason to air it out except for PA.

But if for some reason, Saleh is stupid enough to stack the box, then we're going to see fireworks.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

HUUUUUUUGE game Saturday.

 

[keasley45]

Sam is going to play lights out this Saturday...I just hope by "lights out" he isn't playing with his eye's closed when throwing passes

That's a pretty good one.

Hoping he turns the corner and channels Sam from the 4th qtr against the Rams.

I also hope Kubiak and MM take the training wheels off a bit and just let the chips fall where they may. As much as we might be limiting his mistakes by taking the ball out of his hands, at some point it MIGHT work against him and rather than building confidence through executing low risk plays, manifest in a self doubt that his coaches don't trust him.

Sam is so close to being really really good. He just needs to exorcise the demon that makes him forget his basic reads.

And agree. iNTs happen to every QB. It's the variety that occur for no other reason that the QB crapping the bed that are the issue.

The overthrow to JSN in the EndZone against the Panthers. The non TDs to Charbs and Barner against the 9ers.

It's the final 8. The mistakes are going to be harder to come back from.

 

[keasley45]

Truth though...

I think I'm about tired of all the forecasts, analysis, previews, rankings, rerankings, podcasts, interviews, etc.

Tired of hearing about how the 9ers lost 2weeks ago more than we won - and that they 'held us' to 13.

Tired of hearing what Sam can and can't do. And that he didn't do anything against the 9ers.

Tired about hearing others in the media wonder whether we can stop the 9ers and Shanahan's new game plan ( whatever that is ), or a 9ers team with T Williams back.

I just want the game to start.

I remember this feeling in the week before the SBs we have played.

Let's just FFd to kickoff

And for the 9ers...

Like DLaw said - Don't matter who we play. They line up, they get 'Fd up.

 

[Natethegreat]

Keasley, this is a good post overall; when posters make assumptions about your position on things, it becomes problematic.

But the Sam that "reared his head" this season also has had some of the best QB ratings of the decade at times, and he often made up for the failures, in that very same game with clutch performances. Your admitting these facts would probably go a long way toward lowering the temperature. As I read one of your posts that said we really have no deficiencies (yes, I read your stuff), I assume you mean the QB position as well.

The challenge is that sometimes we need to take the (exceptionally?) good with the (frustratingly or inopportune?) bad. As is always said with QB searches, you better have someone better proposed before throwing away what you have.

My main issue with Keasley is Geno would get every excuse in the book. He would twist himself in pretzels excusing nearly every int.
And despite his claims to the otherwise Keasley did in fact claim Geno was top ten if not top five or close to it. Which was always pure nonsense.
He also gives Darnold close to zero credit for our team getting 14 wins this year.
Keasley played the victim all off-season in these arguments all while calling people ignorant and he the ball knower.
He comes off as rather obnoxious and can never even remotely admit he is biased when he analyses these QB's.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And again, 2 days from the biggest game in several years........and it is somehow geNOT vs. Sam talk

 

[Hawknight]

And again, 2 days from the biggest game in several years........and it is somehow geNOT vs. Sam talk

I wonder how geNo is feeling right about now...think he's hanging out with Metcalf right now wondering what if?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The Cancun brothers. The Victim club.

All I care about is about 9pm on Saturday night, it's BANG BANG, CANCUN GANG.

 

[Runscott]

And again, 2 days from the biggest game in several years........and it is somehow geNOT vs. Sam talk

Yep - odd. Geno and Russ and Sam have been analyzed to death. Only one thing is certain - if Geno had been our QB this season, we wouldn't be where we are now.

Can't wait for Saturday!

 

[Ozzy]

Ozzy, I feel the exact same way about your stance as you do about mine.

The claim that one side 'hated player x' is entirely one sided. That was from the pro Russ crowd, the anti Geno crowd and now the pro Sam crowd. It's consistent.

The drumb beat was constant when Geno was here that nobody was saying he was elite. That wasn't good enough though. I can screenshot posts between us where I was saying he was squarely 12th (where he was a tualky paid by the FO) and you insisted that he was 17 to 20th. That's the reality. And it was constant. If you want to talk about 'hate', it was embarrassing how entirely anti-geno one side was before he even took a snap as a starter.

I was framed as hating Russ because I said his play was a hinderence to our future. That analysis really took root in 2019. Was I wrong?

I 'hated' Russ because I said he couldnt read the field. Was I wrong?

I was blasted and called a hater for saying that, contrary to every Russ supporter claiming coaching here was the problem, that if he ever landed on a team with a REAL, bonafied OC or HC who wanted a REAL offense run by a competent QB, his career would end quickly.
Was I wrong?

And when Geno came along and I thought he could do well and stated such, that 'hate' that I was accused of tossing at Russ was flipped to blind 'love' for Geno.

That's what you call projection. It's basic tribalism. Lines were drawn that I and others here didn't draw and didn't ask for and they still are.

Talking about QB play - I have asked you directly in a few threads in the past to answer basic, logical, questions about your stated position on our last QBs play that focused on the context in which he played and in which certain plays occured and you refused. Ironically that context that you didn't want to take into account you now use in defending Sam.

Bro, like who you like. Hate who you hate. But don't throw those labels on other people or distill their analysis to binary, baseless, emotional characterizations, because they think a player you don't like is pretty good, or see terminal flaws in a player who you loved.

I am beyond my days of investing in player jerseys and pulling for players because I like them. If the team isn't helped by a players performance - that's what matters.

If Sam lays an egg and looks like the dude he was last year or who has reared his head in 2026, I think we should keep looking for the franchise guy.

If Sam turns the corner and grows into the franchise guy we need, lock him up for the rest of his years and let's go win some championships.

Except you're wrong. I can list multiple guys who called Geno elite. I didn't say you said he was elite I said others did. I had Geno in the 17-20 range which is where the entire league had him viewed. They polled league exec's in Sando's exercise every year and he was below 20 if I'm not mistaken and I was called, and apparently called here, a Geno hater. If you view him 10+ spots higher than the NFL views him is it possible the criticism that you have him too high is valid? You were certainly an outlier if thats the case right?

In regards to Russ....It's really hard to have an all time passer rating in history and throw 30-40 touchdowns a year and not be able to read the field. How does someone have that much success and can't read the field? I think that's why people called you a hater because its overstated. Now if you want to say it wasn't his strength and he relied more on his athletic ability then I think that's fair. He didn't read the field like a Brees would or even a Darnold.


Final point man you say quit applying labels to you while you continue to give all those labels to everyone else. It's hypocritical man.

Geno is gone, was in my opinion not very good and then you add the fact that the dude got DUI's, pouted on the bench, was horrible in the red zone, blamed others etc I just wasn't a fan and that's ok. He was even worse in his new environment with a HOF coach in Pete and elite weapons around him.

I love Sam's attitude, he's not out there yelling in fans face "that's why they pay me the big bucks" and isn't doing interviews telling people he's elite and should be paid as such. His teammates love him and he's easy to root for. Geno wasn't that guy for me and many others and that's ok too. You liked Geno and thought he was a top 10-12 guy right? That's ok too I'm just not going to agree.


And I didn't refuse anything. I've stated dozens of times in specific detail about Geno's play you just didn't like it. You constantly blamed everyone else BUT Geno. You blamed a bad defense and I stated the second half of the year the defense was good and Geno was worse, you ignored it. You blamed Grubb, the line, the weather, receivers etc. I continued to say Geno plays a massive role in the failures as well as those things but you disagreed. I'll just say Geno going to Oakland and looking like the worst starter in the league doesn't help your case while having Bowers, Jeanty and an OC who has a history of being very good.....

I'll root for the current QB and the Seahawks and continue to be baffled that people tried to convince everyone Geno was elite or even in your case top 10-12 because I think it's crazy. You're also free to have a different opinion than me. I don't care.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

My main issue with Keasley is Geno would get every excuse in the book. He would twist himself in pretzels excusing nearly every int.
And despite his claims to the otherwise Keasley did in fact claim Geno was top ten if not top five or close to it. Which was always pure nonsense.
He also gives Darnold close to zero credit for our team getting 14 wins this year.
Keasley played the victim all off-season in these arguments all while calling people ignorant and he the ball knower.
He comes off as rather obnoxious and can never even remotely admit he is biased when he analyses these QB's.

And you conveniently ignore the contexts of the two teams, i.e. quality of the defense, quality of special teams, offensive coaching, all of which have dramatically improved from last year.

Correct that, and you can come in here and talk about the bias of others.

 

[Natethegreat]

And you conveniently ignore the contexts of the two teams, i.e. quality of the defense, quality of special teams, offensive coaching, all of which have dramatically improved from last year.

Correct that, and you can come in here and talk about the bias of others.

I was not a Darnold guy at all. I said he was a younger Geno when we signed him which I was fine with given the circumstances.
It's Darnolds play that has changed my mind. He didn't fold when we had two enormous games to win. In fact he came through big time.
You can talk circumstances all you want but both teams he played on in the last two years were significantly better when he was the QB.
I think he needs to cut down the turnovers but I no longer believe the he can't win in big spots narrative.