Russell Wilson ranked #5 QB age 25 and under at NFL.com

[gargantual]

Uhhh yeah. What is it with all their defensiveness on OUR site?
Doesn't it just SCREAM of fear?

Well of course it does.

 

[Bakergirl]

It said in there that his downside is he holds the ball too long. Maybe he does but it leads to explosive downfield plays like Ben Rothliesburger. Also to be rank behing Keap and Cam Newton? Pure silly.

Better to hold the ball and advance your field position with a completed pass than to throw an interception just because some idiot with a computer thinks you should let it go faster.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Usually it is the second year that gives the huge junp in what kind of player you actually have in the NFL. I will give Keap 21 more games before the book is correct on him. 32 games tell the tale Wilson is at 18 Keap is at 11.

 

[HansGruber]

Last time I saw Krapperneck, he was choking when it most counted. Hilarious that 49er fans are criticizing Russell Wilson for missing open receivers considering that last play in the SuperBowl. You know, where he failed to see Moss open and instead threw a fade out the back of the end zone that cost y'all a Lombardi.

All I know is, if my team is facing 4th and Goal with one last shot at a championship, I know who I'd pick to be my quarterback. And it ain't Krapperneck. He already proved he can't get it done.

 

[SouthSoundHawk]

I don't even need to bother wasting my time clicking that link. Seattle teams rarely get the credit they deserve for whatever reason (small market, too far away from anything to really get educated, etc).


Newton and Luck should be at the bottom of this list. The top 3, I don't really care about...show me trophies.

 

[kearly]

Kaepernick checks his second read with the same frequency and skill level that Jake Locker does. To me that makes him a one read quarterback, but the definition of the term is innately subjective.

Second, it is clear to me that the writer of that story is gauging potential far more than actual results, and in that contest, Wilson will always lose to the 4 guys ahead of him. He shouldn't, but he will.

I honestly think Wilson's upside is as high as any of those guys, and I thought that before he was drafted. Of that group, only RG3 is clearly faster and that may not stay true for long given RG3's injury history. Wilson runs very well and has proven remarkably durable though five seasons of college plus NFL. Arm strength wise, I think Wilson is comparable. Luck and Kaepernick have better arms but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Wilson loses anything from the difference. Wilson has a terrific arm. Wilson's height is his only detracting factor, and you might find 10-15 plays all season where it factored. I think Wilson's physical talent is under-rated.

I think a lot of the physical talent perception boils down to size bias. Kaepernick impresses a lot more running a 4.53 at 230 than Wilson did running a 4.55 at 206. But does that size difference really matter? For other positions sure. But for a quarterback? Not really, no.

Contrary to popular thought, not all mental talent is teachable. I could study music for a lifetime but I'd never be the next Mozart. Wilson's unique mental talent should not be brushed over when discussing upside. We saw plain as day what a mental ceiling looked like with T-Jack and Whitehurst. Wilson's mental ceiling might be the highest I have ever seen.

And when I saw mental I don't just mean X's and O's, expertise or technique, but improvisation. Wilson is an artist on the move.

Then you have leadership and all that other stuff. How often do you see a team down 20 in the fourth quarter in the playoffs on the road, that completely believes they are going to win the game?

 

[scutterhawk]

"Kaepernick is in the best position of any of them to win titles quickly because of the coaching staff and talent that surrounds him."

See, now that's exactly what everyone around here is pointing out as 'THE' fallacy statement, but posted by a 9r fan, what else can you expect?,,,,,, the truth?, nope.
Coaching staff?, again, nope.
Talent around him?, once more it's a no, especially if you're talking about receivers.
Kaepernick ahead of Wilson is a joke, and not a well thought out joke at that.

 

[themunn]

I think a lot of the physical talent perception boils down to size bias. Kaepernick impresses a lot more running a 4.53 at 230 than Wilson did running a 4.55 at 206. But does that size difference really matter? For other positions sure. But for a quarterback? Not really, no.

Those times hide the real difference between the two players though, it's evident once you look at their 10 and 20 yard splits, Wilson is a full tenth of a second faster over 10 yards, they're about equal at 20 yards (Wilson slightly ahead) and Kaepernick is faster over 40 yards. This is further evidenced in their 20 yard short shuttle and 3-cone drill, both of which Wilson is about a tenth of a second faster in.

His size is what gives Kaepernick the "home-run effect" that RGIII also has, once he breaks free of that initial 10 yards his long stride means he's difficult to catch (we've seen it with Browner's long returns or his amazing chase-down of Adrian Peterson from behind) - it's far more impressive to watch, but Wilson's quick acceleration over 10/20 yards is what allows him to make defenders look silly trying to bring him down before he slings the ball 10/20/30/40 yards through the air.

And I'd rather my QB uses his legs to avoid being hit then throw the ball to another player to get tackled than run through crowds of players and risk injury

 

[Happybelly]

Arm strength wise, I think Wilson is comparable. Luck and Kaepernick have better arms but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Wilson loses anything from the difference. Wilson has a terrific arm.

Luck's arm is stronger than Wilson's? I probably haven't watched Luck as much as you have, but I've always had the impression his arm strength wasn't that great. I've seen him float some passes that were either intercepted or incomplete that would have been completions with better zip on the ball.

 

[Scottemojo]

Kaepernick checks his second read with the same frequency and skill level that Jake Locker does. To me that makes him a one read quarterback, but the definition of the term is innately subjective.

Second, it is clear to me that the writer of that story is gauging potential far more than actual results, and in that contest, Wilson will always lose to the 4 guys ahead of him. He shouldn't, but he will.

I honestly think Wilson's upside is as high as any of those guys, and I thought that before he was drafted. Of that group, only RG3 is clearly faster and that may not stay true for long given RG3's injury history. Wilson runs very well and has proven remarkably durable though five seasons of college plus NFL. Arm strength wise, I think Wilson is comparable. Luck and Kaepernick have better arms but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Wilson loses anything from the difference. Wilson has a terrific arm. Wilson's height is his only detracting factor, and you might find 10-15 plays all season where it factored. I think Wilson's physical talent is under-rated.

I think a lot of the physical talent perception boils down to size bias. Kaepernick impresses a lot more running a 4.53 at 230 than Wilson did running a 4.55 at 206. But does that size difference really matter? For other positions sure. But for a quarterback? Not really, no.

Contrary to popular thought, not all mental talent is teachable. I could study music for a lifetime but I'd never be the next Mozart. Wilson's unique mental talent should not be brushed over when discussing upside. We saw plain as day what a mental ceiling looked like with T-Jack and Whitehurst. Wilson's mental ceiling might be the highest I have ever seen.

And when I saw mental I don't just mean X's and O's, expertise or technique, but improvisation. Wilson is an artist on the move.

Then you have leadership and all that other stuff. How often do you see a team down 20 in the fourth quarter in the playoffs on the road, that completely believes they are going to win the game?

Kip, it is height, and height only. In a league that will always be obsessed with size, and properly so, one or two outliers like Brees and Wilson will not change perception. So, when asked to rank players, that bias will always show up.

The only way to deal with it is to win. Fortunately, Wilson will soon be over 25 and permanantly off this list.

 

[kearly]

The only way to deal with it is to win. Fortunately, Wilson will soon be over 25 and permanently off this list.

I know it sounds a bit nutty, but I want Seattle to dominate to a championship next season more for Wilson's sake then mine as a fan. I am SICK of seeing him under-valued in the media. I figured the Falcons game would finally end it, but I guess not.

I'm almost jealous of those who can just flip the "who cares" switch. I've always been one of those people that lets stupid opinions get under their skin, whether it's about a TV show, movie, performer, or athlete. On the plus side, when everyone is licking Wilson's boots a few years from now it will be that much more gratifying. Which I firmly believe is destined. I'll just have to look forward to that time.

Those times hide the real difference between the two players though, it's evident once you look at their 10 and 20 yard splits, Wilson is a full tenth of a second faster over 10 yards, they're about equal at 20 yards (Wilson slightly ahead) and Kaepernick is faster over 40 yards. This is further evidenced in their 20 yard short shuttle and 3-cone drill, both of which Wilson is about a tenth of a second faster in.

His size is what gives Kaepernick the "home-run effect" that RGIII also has, once he breaks free of that initial 10 yards his long stride means he's difficult to catch (we've seen it with Browner's long returns or his amazing chase-down of Adrian Peterson from behind) - it's far more impressive to watch, but Wilson's quick acceleration over 10/20 yards is what allows him to make defenders look silly trying to bring him down before he slings the ball 10/20/30/40 yards through the air.

And I'd rather my QB uses his legs to avoid being hit then throw the ball to another player to get tackled than run through crowds of players and risk injury

Great post. I hadn't realized what you said about Browner, but it makes sense. Interesting.

Luck's arm is stronger than Wilson's? I probably haven't watched Luck as much as you have, but I've always had the impression his arm strength wasn't that great. I've seen him float some passes that were either intercepted or incomplete that would have been completions with better zip on the ball.

On the NFL forum I just started a thread calling Andrew Luck the NFL's most over-rated player. But if I made a list of things about Luck's legend that are not over-stated, the very first item I'd start with is how pretty his passes are. Prettiest deep ball in the league, IMO. Arrives with zip and yet seems soft enough to land without breaking eggshells. I don't think there is another QB who throws a more catchable ball, not even Wilson (and that's saying a lot). He has a lot of strength too, only Flacco can throw it farther, most likely. When we face Luck later this year, I will be nervous every time he goes deep. :twocents:

 

[Sarlacc83]

I might be the only one who's actually glad for this kind of thing.

And for one reason: Anything to feed Wilson's fire. I believe he has the Jordan syndrome where the tiniest slight makes him work that much harder (albeit, he doesn't turn into a grudge-holding jerk. I hope). So go ahead and tell him he's #5. Please.

 

[Hawknballs]

I might be the only one who's actually glad for this kind of thing.

And for one reason: Anything to feed Wilson's fire. I believe he has the Jordan syndrome where the tiniest slight makes him work that much harder (albeit, he doesn't turn into a grudge-holding jerk. I hope). So go ahead and tell him he's #5. Please.

I really don't think RW cares all that much about it enough to even be slightly 'motivated'. Pretty sure some random offseason article doesn't have much value next to wanting to achieve more this year than going home in atlanta.

 

[The Outfield]

Behind Kaepernick and Newton? ROTFLMFAO. What a joke.

 

[pehawk]

Even though he's a closeted 49er fan, and roots for their SB victories, kearly will FOREVER have street cred and the benefit of the doubt, because of his unabashed love for Wilson from the jump.

That's random, but, Kearly's revisiting those 2012 thoughts in this thread.

 

[Seahwkgal]

Those times hide the real difference between the two players though, it's evident once you look at their 10 and 20 yard splits, Wilson is a full tenth of a second faster over 10 yards, they're about equal at 20 yards (Wilson slightly ahead) and Kaepernick is faster over 40 yards. This is further evidenced in their 20 yard short shuttle and 3-cone drill, both of which Wilson is about a tenth of a second faster in.

His size is what gives Kaepernick the "home-run effect" that RGIII also has, once he breaks free of that initial 10 yards his long stride means he's difficult to catch (we've seen it with Browner's long returns or his amazing chase-down of Adrian Peterson from behind) - it's far more impressive to watch, but Wilson's quick acceleration over 10/20 yards is what allows him to make defenders look silly trying to bring him down before he slings the ball 10/20/30/40 yards through the air.

And I'd rather my QB uses his legs to avoid being hit then throw the ball to another player to get tackled than run through crowds of players and risk injury

Well said.
[youtube]v4AyYF_7gHQ[/youtube]

 

[formido]

Kaepernick just isn't in the same league as Wilson as a passer. Coming out of the draft, the knock on Kap was his accuracy. Mayock said he was "wildly inconsistent". Nothing much has changed, he's just been paired with a brilliant system coach, the same coach who make Alex Smith look like an MVP candidate. Here's a report from OTA's just this week:

"Colin Kaepernick. First, his passes were sailing all over the place this afternoon. He completed 7-of-15 passes by my count, and he missed four-of-his-first-five. When he missed, he was overthrowing receivers deep or firing short passes as hard as he could. Second, he did not throw it to Vernon Davis one time. With Crabtree out, you’d think Kaepernick would make it his business to develop chemistry between him and Davis. Finally, Kaepernick and the first-team offense went three-and-out against the second-team defense in a two-minute drill at the end of practice. Kaepernick threw two wild passes on that series."[1]

[source: http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2013/05/ ... ck-is-not/]

Kaep is a good open field runner, but he's at his ceiling there. There's only so much of an impact you can make as an open field runner. Wilson's superior physical gifts in hand size and elite lateral quickness means that he can keep passing plays alive far better than Kaepernick. As Wilson's passing improves, his physical advantages can be leveraged to a far greater degree.

And just how much better of a passer is Wilson? Well, during the same period Kap was playing significant minutes, with his highly acclaimed 98.7 passer rating, Wilson's passer rating was 120.3.

[source: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... i?id=AS3OI]

As a matter of fact, Wilson had the 6th highest passer rating ever for a QB over that stretch, not just rookies.

[source: http://pfref.com/tiny/Oi3Qb]

[1] Some other fun stuff:

"Ricardo Lockette. He caught four passes on five targets. Like A.J. Jenkins, Lockette is most comfortable running short routes – sticks and drags, in particular. Lockette has not shown the necessary body control to make more difficult catches down the field. For example, in the two-minute drill, Colt McCoy tried to throw him a back-shoulder pass, and Lockette couldn’t manage to turn his body around to catch the ball."

"A.J. Jenkins. He was targeted once and made one catch – a five yard gain on a stick route. Every other receiver was targeted at least twice. Jenkins is the favorite to win the open competition at split end, but he’s going to have to make some plays to actually win the job."

 

[pehawk]

I think Wilson was given special instruction to WEAR OUT the 49er defense that game. Some of the scrambles that game seemed purposefully extended for no other reason than to embarass AND exhaust the 49ers for their following game.

 

[formido]

Kap likes to impress. He likes girls to take body shots off him. He likes eye catching tats. He likes kissing his biceps after TDs. He likes to be the center of attention. He likes to show-off.

One area where he likes to show off is how hard he can throw the ball. He ate it up when Moss talked about breaking a finger on one of Kap's throws. He loves those articles. In contrast to past receivers talking about how catchable Wilson makes his throws, Kap refuses to put touch on the ball. Notice that quote again in my previous post about Kap throwing short passes as hard as he can in OTAs this week. He's not going to change that. Last year, Seattle had the third fewest drops in the league. SF was at twice the rate, I believe. Don't expect that to change this year, either.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

I had the same reaction as Kearly. At first, I felt defensive, or protective of Russell. Then I paused and thought about how all these list makers are going to freak out when DangeRuss goes berzerker all over the NFL in 2013. I could already see the headlines for this list next year, "Wilson Stands Tallest Among NFL's Young Guns." In my head I was doing this:



Fun Fact: Russell's first game after turning 25 is week 13, on MNF against the Saints.

Interesting note: At this point, according to NFL.com, our divisional-round rematch with ATL is not as good a game as Carolina at SF: