Rush Defense

[kearly]

It's pretty useless to guage run defense on a team level in the preseason. Tons of non-roster players out there on both sides. You can judge individuals fairly well, but it's not perfect.

Seattle has been near the middle of the pack in run defense for years and years now. So far the starting group looks like it's at the same level it's always been.

We are kind of thin when it comes to dedicated run stoppers. If Mebane got hurt we'd suffer a massive downgrade from whoever replaces him. Seriously, our 2nd best 1-tech right now is arguably Clinton McDonald, and I'm not sure he makes the roster. I'm really hoping McDaniel is a plus run defender because IMO we are short on them right now.

 

[13thMan]

@kearly.... Good post, if not a bit disheartening! Geeeez..... in that case, let's just hope we maintain status quo and don't take a step BACK.... I'm ok with an elite secondary and middle of the road run defense.... I think (I hope) it will balance out.....

 

[Perfundle]

Also, Manning was having his way with us. So, it's not like we really stopped them

Sure, if you don't count the two three-and-outs.

Thing is, they're a good running team. If we think our TE situation looks grim, their WR situation is easily twice as bad, and probably worse. They have no talent on the edge, no speed, and nothing to challenge us with. That makes them one dimensional. They're going to run right at us, and right now, I don't see us stopping them. It's possible that's an over reaction, but what I've seen through 2 preseason games worries me.

You don't think that if Seattle thinks SF is weak at WR they won't stack the box and make Kaepernick beat them through the air? When Wilson was at Wisconsin they had one of the best rushing attacks in the country and they would often still get stymied at the beginning of the game because the opponent put nearly everyone in the box. Only when Wilson aired it out and the opponent backed off did the running game get going. Right now Seattle is doing nothing of the sort on defense.

Besides, the best run defense is a dominating offense. SF got a healthy 4.3 yards per carry in the second game last year and they still only had 6 points until the final garbage touchdown, because they couldn't afford to run anymore when they got behind. And then, in the first game, they had an even better YPC of 5.5 and only scored 13 points there too.

 

[Scottemojo]

Go back and chart how effective they were running by formation.

I don't think the staff is that concerned about base D, but I think they are very concerned about stopping the run from the nickel.

 

[Perfundle]

I don't think the staff is that concerned about base D, but I think they are very concerned about stopping the run from the nickel.

If they choose to put out a nickel defense on likely running downs, then that's the sacrifice they're making. You can't put out nickel defenses more than the average team and then bemoan the poor run defense, because the flip side is better pass defense, which was the case last year. Of course the pass defense wasn't good against Manning, but that's the thing that should be talked about, not the run defense.

 

[Scottemojo]

I don't think the staff is that concerned about base D, but I think they are very concerned about stopping the run from the nickel.

If they choose to put out a nickel defense on likely running downs, then that's the sacrifice they're making. You can't put out nickel defenses more than the average team and then bemoan the poor run defense, because the flip side is better pass defense, which was the case last year. Of course the pass defense wasn't good against Manning, but that's the thing that should be talked about, not the run defense.

They are on record saying we may run nickel more than half the time. Agaisnt teams that pass very well, we may run nickel way more than half the time. That was why Red took reps at the 3 spot, he will kick inside every so often to give a breather to the regular 3 tech in games where they run the nickel for a ton of snaps. Like the Saints.

THe big reason Winfield was so attractive was he is a good nickel run stopper. It is the plan to run a lot of nickel, to treat 1st and 2nd down just like 3rd down against those few teams that throw all the time.

 

[Perfundle]

They are on record saying we may run nickel more than half the time. Agaisnt teams that pass very well, we may run nickel way more than half the time. That was why Red took reps at the 3 spot, he will kick inside every so often to give a breather to the regular 3 tech in games where they run the nickel for a ton of snaps. Like the Saints.

THe big reason Winfield was so attractive was he is a good nickel run stopper. It is the plan to run a lot of nickel, to treat 1st and 2nd down just like 3rd down against those few teams that throw all the time.

Then they're doing what Green Bay does. It worked fine for them in 2010, when they had an elite pass defense and an average run defense. It fell apart in 2011, when the pass defense crumbled because of injuries. Last year the pass defense was pretty good and the rush defense was around Seattle's level so their defense was somewhat above average, but they ran into the read-option and got killed.

But the point is that any team that does that is almost certainly not going to have a top-10 run defense. As long as the red-zone defense holds up, they'll be fine.

 

[Jville]

It's pretty useless to guage run defense on a team level in the preseason. Tons of non-roster players out there on both sides. You can judge individuals fairly well, but it's not perfect.

Seattle has been near the middle of the pack in run defense for years and years now. So far the starting group looks like it's at the same level it's always been.

We are kind of thin when it comes to dedicated run stoppers. If Mebane got hurt we'd suffer a massive downgrade from whoever replaces him. Seriously, our 2nd best 1-tech right now is arguably Clinton McDonald, and I'm not sure he makes the roster. I'm really hoping McDaniel is a plus run defender because IMO we are short on them right now.

The two big run stuffers added to the roster over the last 24 hours certainly recognizes those concerns.

 

[kearly]

THe big reason Winfield was so attractive was he is a good nickel run stopper. It is the plan to run a lot of nickel, to treat 1st and 2nd down just like 3rd down against those few teams that throw all the time.

I don't know about the Broncos game, but in the Chargers game our run defense was at its worst with Bryant-Williams-Mebane out there to start the game, and it was pretty much only because of Williams. So it wasn't a nickle thing in that game.

Against, Denver? Probably. Denver only looked good running it when Ball was out there, so it's tough to tell. It did seem like Seattle got punished when Hill was at the 1-tech, which I have to assume was a nickle defense thing.

You are spot on about Winfield, which is why I am starting to feel concern over his non-impact. If he gets burned in coverage occasionally then so what- he's here to be a DB/LB hybrid. But so far, I haven't seen him making any impact in the run game. Maybe it's because teams haven't been running outside that much?

 

[Scottemojo]

THe big reason Winfield was so attractive was he is a good nickel run stopper. It is the plan to run a lot of nickel, to treat 1st and 2nd down just like 3rd down against those few teams that throw all the time.

I don't know about the Broncos game, but in the Chargers game our run defense was at its worst with Bryant-Williams-Mebane out there to start the game, and it was pretty much only because of Williams. So it wasn't a nickle thing in that game.

Against, Denver? Probably. Denver only looked good running it when Ball was out there, so it's tough to tell. It did seem like Seattle got punished when Hill was at the 1-tech, which I have to assume was a nickle defense thing.

You are spot on about Winfield, which is why I am starting to feel concern over his non-impact. If he gets burned in coverage occasionally then so what- he's here to be a DB/LB hybrid. But so far, I haven't seen him making any impact in the run game. Maybe it's because teams haven't been running outside that much?

One thing I cannot explain, Winfield did not look nearly so tiny on the Vikings.

 

[bestfightstory]

One thing I cannot explain, Winfield did not look nearly so tiny on the Vikings.

He was not standing between browner and chancellor...

 

[Scottemojo]

One thing I cannot explain, Winfield did not look nearly so tiny on the Vikings.

He was not standing between browner and chancellor...

Just remember I grooved you a soft ball...

 

[Tical21]

LOL I was actually thinking Winfield looks bigger than he normally does. I was a huge fan of his for the Vikes. It is true that most of his highlight tackles come on swing passes and tosses. He flashes onto the screen and goes bowling ball style into the ballcarrier, sending him flying and tumbling like a pin. I'm not concerned in the slightest by Winfield. He's a player. But if we're expecting him to help our interior run defense against power running teams, I think we're going to run out of breath.

I am concerned about the run defense, but that was seemingly an island I was on alone last preseason. We had a middle of the road run defense last year, and we subtract Branch and Hill from that defense and replace those run stopper types with what at the beginning of the season expects to be C or D level starters. I fully expect to find guys that can play those spots well, but it may take a while to find the right guys and/or for them to gel into their roles.

The silver lining is that SJax is out of the division. Run D should really only be a problem against SF and Minnesota, maybe another game or two at most. Does it really matter anymore if your run defense is average at best? As long as you're not a complete sieve, most teams will pass so much that the conversation becomes moot.

There were some holes against Denver. Not too alarming, as you're always going to key the pass first and second against Peyton, but Jordan Hill got put on skates a couple times, which was a little disappointing. I don't remember KJ being around the ball much. Kam is going to have to bring his lunch pail. I find myself fully entrenched in the Allen Bradford camp. Tell him his job is to follow the RB wherever he goes and bring Mr. Norton his head.