Rush Defense

[EverydayImRusselin]

Why is everyone saying our rush defense looked crappy against Denver? I don't get it. I just went back and wrote down every rushing play they had (excluding sacks). Here it is.

5, -2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 5, 7, 1, 3 ,3 ,2 ,4 ,3 ,1, 1(Goalline fumble), 8, 2, 6, 0, -3, -4, 1, 1, 8, 2, 5, 14

That breaks down to

<3 yds (good rush defense I'd say) - 17 plays
4-8 yds (successful runs I'd say) - 10 plays
8+ - 1 Play (Osweiler scramble)

That adds up to 28 carries for 76 yds or a whopping 2.7 ypa. I would be thrilled if our run defense was this bad all season.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Because a lot of people need something to complain about, even in a 40-10 win.

 

[nsport]

Plus, people don't realize that the strategy is very simple right now. Sure guys are working on technique and some strategies, but more or less the staff are evaluating players. 2.8 ypa is very good - as a matter of fact, in 2012 if it was possible to sustain this for 16 games, that would be the #1 rushing defense in the league. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... fied=false

 

[Sarlacc83]

Because a lot of people need something to complain about, even in a 40-10 win.

I agree with this, and I also get the impression, sometimes, that there's an expectation that Seattle is perfect on every play from scrimmage. It's like people can't tolerate the thought the other team might have some good players, too.

 

[Perfundle]

<3 yds (good rush defense I'd say) - 17 plays
4-8 yds (successful runs I'd say) - 10 plays

It doesn't quite work like that, since the 4-yard pickup on third down is good rush defense, and the subsequent 3-yard pickup on fourth down on fourth down isn't, but yes, I am wondering the same thing.

 

[hawker84]

The run defense wasn't terrible, but let's not sit here and say it looked great either, because it did not... Neither did the coverage on the TE's... those were problems last year that need tightened up. see WASH/ATL games for example...

 

[TwistedHusky]

Because that is a fair amount of 5 and 7 yard chunks against your starters.

That isn't consistent and it isn't great for what is supposed to be a topline defense, especially considering all the upgrades.

You cannot just take the average of the game and call it 2.8 per carry. For one, because the 1s did not play all game, for two because the RB was not exactly elite in the first place.

Regardless, out of the first ten rushes we gave up 4 or more yards per carry almost 50% of the time. And for such a small sample size I am seeing a lot of 5s, 6s, and 7s in that pool.

Though we did not give up any long runs, which is a plus, we did give up quite a few large chunks. Using those stats it is also impossible to see context though, a 5 yard run is just fine if you are stopping them on 3rd and 7. But just watching the game some of those runs seemed to give up too much on 1st and 2nd down and we had a few shots to stop them on 3rd that we could not keep the back from getting.

Admittedly, when you have a QB that is completing pass after pass on you (and Manning was 11 for 16 for 160+) then yes, it is going to open up some doors for the run. But let's not pretend that was close to an evenly matched game until that fumble, and frankly I still think that injury took a lot of wind out of their sails as well. It appears what separated those teams was special teams and turnovers, until we got to the 2s and 3s where we busted the game open.

Still our rushing defense does not look as good, though we have some people out still.

What worries me is that last year we seemed pretty stout against the run, though we had some issues with consistently rushing the passer. This year we don't look as good against the run and I am not seeing much pressure on the QB (again with the starters) either. Denver is an elite offense, so maybe that is something to consider but San Diego is not and for 2 weeks we have not been consistent against the run against the 1s.

 

[Perfundle]

For one, because the 1s did not play all game

During the time they did play, they only gave up 3.27 yards per carry.

Admittedly, when you have a QB that is completing pass after pass on you (and Manning was 11 for 16 for 160+) then yes, it is going to open up some doors for the run. But let's not pretend that was close to an evenly matched game until that fumble

So you forgot that Seattle forced 2 three-and-outs against Manning in his five drives? And, evenly matched game? How can you even compare them when Denver had 4 drives while Seattle only had 2?

What worries me is that last year we seemed pretty stout against the run, though we had some issues with consistently rushing the passer.

This tells me you simply weren't playing attention at all. The second half of the season Seattle was quite bad against the run, giving up 5.24 yards per carry. And somehow, they were still 7-1 during that stretch. That tells me that a passable run defense is all that is required to go far in the playoffs (a passable run defense is what Seattle didn't have against Atlanta, because of Clemons' injury).

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

<3 yds (good rush defense I'd say) - 17 plays
4-8 yds (successful runs I'd say) - 10 plays

It doesn't quite work like that, since the 4-yard pickup on third down is good rush defense, and the subsequent 3-yard pickup on fourth down on fourth down isn't, but yes, I am wondering the same thing.

I thought I was making it fairly obvious that I picked arbitrary numbers for this.


Here is a more detailed breakdown (Yes I am bored at work)

DOWN (TO GO)
1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH
5 5 (&6) 4 (&5) 3 (&1)
-2 3 (&9) 14 (&10)
1 2 (&7)
4 1 (&GOAL, FUMBLE)
3 8 (&10)
7 2 (&11)
1 -3 (&10)
3 1 (&14)
1 8 (&9)
6 2 (&10)
0 5 (&14)
-4
1


As you can see they only gave up 2 first downs, one on the 4th down try and one on Osweiler's scramble.

As I said, I'll be thrilled if this happens during the regular season.

Edit: It looks nice and chart like on my screen until I hit enter.

 

[Jville]

The concern that some of us are addressing centers specifically around the number of 2 gap linemen currently on the roster. There are a lot of 1 gap types on the roster so it is the composition of defense linemen that is being addressed. It's a legitimate concern for fans whose confidence is limited to Bryant and Mebane as 2 gap linemen.

 

[nsport]

Wait a second - the Manning influence exacerbates the issue. HOF QB's know exactly where to go with the ball and leads to lots of other issues, the run defense included. If someone can break down the Rush YPA during the sustained drives by Denver along with the play selection and Passing YPA, I think the story will unfold.

My non-statistic'd eye tells me that the Broncos were fairly successful running on drives where Manning's passing YPA was high. I would put this game in it's own little box, because I don't think it is typical for any "sky is falling" run defense analysis.

 

[mikeak]

I go back and look at the first drive that San Diego put together and it concerns me. I add to this the last game of the season last year and it really concerns me.

I think we won't know until sometimes very late on September 15th how good our run defense is.......

 

[formido]

<3 yds (good rush defense I'd say) - 17 plays
4-8 yds (successful runs I'd say) - 10 plays

It doesn't quite work like that, since the 4-yard pickup on third down is good rush defense, and the subsequent 3-yard pickup on fourth down on fourth down isn't, but yes, I am wondering the same thing.

I thought I was making it fairly obvious that I picked arbitrary numbers for this.


Here is a more detailed breakdown (Yes I am bored at work)

DOWN (TO GO)
1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH
5 5 (&6) 4 (&5) 3 (&1)
-2 3 (&9) 14 (&10)
1 2 (&7)
4 1 (&GOAL, FUMBLE)
3 8 (&10)
7 2 (&11)
1 -3 (&10)
3 1 (&14)
1 8 (&9)
6 2 (&10)
0 5 (&14)
-4
1


As you can see they only gave up 2 first downs, one on the 4th down try and one on Osweiler's scramble.

As I said, I'll be thrilled if this happens during the regular season.

Edit: It looks nice and chart like on my screen until I hit enter.

If you want to bother, you can apparently format tables with bbcode:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7118

...although I haven't tried this myself.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Wait a second - the Manning influence exacerbates the issue. HOF QB's know exactly where to go with the ball and leads to lots of other issues, the run defense included. If someone can break down the Rush YPA during the sustained drives by Denver along with the play selection and Passing YPA, I think the story will unfold.

My non-statistic'd eye tells me that the Broncos were fairly successful running on drives where Manning's passing YPA was high. I would put this game in it's own little box, because I don't think it is typical for any "sky is falling" run defense analysis.

Here are the runs in order while Manning was in the game.

5, -2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 5, 7, 1, 3 ,3 ,2 ,4 ,3 ,1, 1(Goalline fumble), 8

 

[13thMan]

I go back and look at the first drive that San Diego put together and it concerns me. I add to this the last game of the season last year and it really concerns me.

I think we won't know until sometimes very late on September 15th how good our run defense is.......

Granted, but Carolina can tote the rock too.... and they have a mobile QB to boot.... we may have a pretty good idea about a week sooner....

 

[FlyingGreg]

I go back and look at the first drive that San Diego put together and it concerns me. I add to this the last game of the season last year and it really concerns me.

I think we won't know until sometimes very late on September 15th how good our run defense is.......

Granted, but Carolina can tote the rock too.... and they have a mobile QB to boot.... we may have a pretty good idea about a week sooner....

A running game and mobile QB our defense shut down last season.

 

[Blitzer88]

Interesting, still would like to see more though from the run D as it did seem like there were pretty big holes for the Denver RBs, they just missed them on occasions.

 

[Hawks46]

Well, I didn't chart every single run. I watch the line of scrimmage, and what I saw was tons of holes, guys getting pushed back with regularity, and then a few really good effort plays where a DLman lunged or a linebacker filled and made the play. You aren't always going to be successful on those effort plays. There was tons of room to run, and better RBs would've gashed us worse.

Also, Manning was having his way with us. So, it's not like we really stopped them, we just got some timely turnovers that turned the tide. Those are also things you can't always rely on. This worries me because:

SF is our biggest rival in division. Assuming we take care of business against the Rams and Cardinals, we need both games from the Niners, as they're the biggest obstacle in our quest for home field advantage (and I don't need to say how important that is to this team), and they have a much easier away schedule than we do, so we really need to hang 2 losses on them.

Thing is, they're a good running team. If we think our TE situation looks grim, their WR situation is easily twice as bad, and probably worse. They have no talent on the edge, no speed, and nothing to challenge us with. That makes them one dimensional. They're going to run right at us, and right now, I don't see us stopping them. It's possible that's an over reaction, but what I've seen through 2 preseason games worries me.

 

[13thMan]

@Hawks46 - I am going to rewatch both games again based on your post and another in this forum with an eye on these things... By no means should we be hitting the panic button at this point, but if what you say is true.... there could be very big concerns, even starting just in the first couple weeks no less.....

And yes, I would agree that we have the unfortunate benefit of playing a team twice with arguably one of the best (certainly most innovative?) running games in all of football.... If the Niners can hang their hat on that, plus their very favorable schedule.....

Ugh.... is it September yet????

 

[Happypuppy]

Note as well the defense sets we were using as well. A extra DB was in much of the time. It seems the Hawks are experimenting a bit