Report: Geno told he will be retained in 2024

WarHawks

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
1,948
Reaction score
1,528
So, I see this is kind of the first post in a multi-post outburst, but I'm going to try and respond anyway: Are you saying that "dump every player you have who makes any kind of money and tank for a high draft choice" is what you want them to do that has worked for the "Rams and 49ers" many times?

Because that's not quite true. For one, the Rams didn't 'tank into a high draft pick' for Goff. They traded up for him after having a 7-9 season. They were crappy his first year and didn't even benefit from it because they traded away their first round draft pick to get him.

And even though they went to a Super Bowl with Mr. Goff, the Rams were so happy with him that they traded him away a mere 2 seasons later for a guy who is older than (and has played worse over the last 2 seasons) than Geno Smith, whom you seem to hate. And the Rams literally only won 1 extra game than the Seahawks this year. (If Puka Nacua didn't get a phantom PI for tripping over his own feet, we go 10-7 and go to the playoffs instead of them.)

If you're referring to the 49ers, I think you are forgetting how many years straight they were terrible after 2013. By the time they drafted Trey Lance (which ended up being a mistake, anyway) they had been terrible for most of a decade. Is this what you want the Seahawks to do? Suck for 7 years?
Reminder: Niners still haven't won a Super Bowl and they've gone all-in on this current roster.


Obviously, there are exceptions to these rules, but MOST teams that full-on stink just keep stinking. Teams with 6 or less wins don't actually turn it around just by virtue of having a good draft pick. Yes, the Niners did have that rare turnaround, but most crappy teams are much more like the Jets, Giants, Jaguars, and Panthers. Each of those guys are on like, what? Their 3rd or 4th rebuild now in just the last 5 or 6 years?
And so...being in perpetual Purgatory for years is somehow better? At least those crappy teams are swinging for the fences, and have real chances to get better, instead of always settling for mid to late round picks under the guise of "success."
 

pittpnthrs

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
5,438
Reaction score
1,979
Why does everybody have their panties in a wad over this? This was expected and the obvious thing to do. The team is going through a change. It's going to take a few seasons so why not keep the experienced guy while other areas are being addressed?

Patience my friends
 

DarkVictory23

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
1,814
And so...being in perpetual Purgatory for years is somehow better? At least those crappy teams are swinging for the fences, and have real chances to get better, instead of always settling for mid to late round picks under the guise of "success."
Yes, it is. First being in your 'purgatory' (I.E. being a decent team but not quite getting over the hump) does give you a better chance at, well, being better. Again, in the past decade teams that were making their first non-consecutive appearance to the Super Bowl had an average of 9 wins the previous season.

In other words, teams that are 8-9/9-8 type teams actually do have a real chance to get better and it's far more common than teams that stink turning it around. Your assumption that being worse gives you a better chance to improve is just factually inaccurate. Teams that have 6 wins or less are FAR more likely (2.5 times as likely) to just be bad again the next year than they are to have a winning season.


Second, I would much rather watch a team that is good year after year, even if they eventually don't make the playoffs, go to the Conference Championship, or win the Super Bowl than a team that is bad year after year chasing the mythical savior first round draft pick. Because BAD teams don't make the playoffs, go to the Conference Championship, or win the Super Bowl either and on top of that you have to watch them LOSE a whole lot more.


To take another track, let's look at the other side: Since our last appearance in the Super Bowl, only 6 teams have won it--Chiefs, Rams, Buccaneers, Patriots, Eagles, and Broncos. In that time, nearly a decade ago, these teams that have won it all, have only drafted 20 players ahead of where we drafted (or could have drafted if we didn't trade our spot).

Are/were some of these players good? Yeah, definitely. Jared Goff, Todd Gurley, Vita Vea, and Bradley Chubb are in this group.

Is one of the players Patrick Mahomes? Yup.

But are some of these guys high profile misses? Do Jameis Winston and Carson Wentz ring any bells?

Are some of these guys who I barely know their names (if I know them at all)? Feel free to hop on pro-football-reference to look up OJ Howard, Derek Barnett, Shane Ray, and Jerry Jeudy if you have the time.


But the biggest point here is that in a decade, the 6 Super Bowl winning teams have only come away with TWENTY players in the draft who we couldn't have had if we wanted them. That is it.

This isn't the NBA. Teams rarely are just one player away from being great (even a QB). If you are just one player away from being great, your record usually isn't 4-13.

Being able to draft slightly higher in the first round (of 7!) is no sort of magic ticket to being a winning team. It doesn't give you a 'real chance' to get better. It gives you a slightly improved chance to pick your preferred player in the first round of the draft. That's all.
 
OP
OP
Maelstrom787

Maelstrom787

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
12,031
Reaction score
10,036
Location
Delaware
Geno wasn't the issue with our team. Poor tackling was. If Macdonald can fix that, we can make a run with Geno.
If Jared Goff can get to a Super Bowl if his defense doesn't drop gift-wrapped Purdy interceptions, Geno Smith can with a similar level of assistance. That's my contention and I think it's a fair one.
 
OP
OP
Maelstrom787

Maelstrom787

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
12,031
Reaction score
10,036
Location
Delaware
Why does everybody have their panties in a wad over this? This was expected and the obvious thing to do. The team is going through a change. It's going to take a few seasons so why not keep the experienced guy while other areas are being addressed?

Patience my friends

Huh.

Maybe we'll be more aligned post-Carroll.
 

Hawkamaniac

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Messages
45
Reaction score
84
Failure to escape purgatory ends with a descent into hell. And because of this consequence you sit, until you’re all but certain the savior has arrived.

John knows what he’s doing. He was in on Mahomes and in on Allen. He found Russ late.

Geno is the guy right now not because he’s the best, but because he’s the best option.
 
OP
OP
Maelstrom787

Maelstrom787

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
12,031
Reaction score
10,036
Location
Delaware
Failure to escape purgatory ends with a descent into hell. And because of this consequence you sit, until you’re all but certain the savior has arrived.

John knows what he’s doing. He was in on Mahomes and in on Allen. He found Russ late.

Geno is the guy right now not because he’s the best, but because he’s the best option.
I agree with the overall premise, but I do want to caution against completely giving up hope on Geno having any upside remaining.

I mean, 2022 was a big surprise. 2023 was a bit worse, yes. But we haven't seen Geno yet with an effective rushing attack, a good offensive line, or a defense that has been anything other than bottom-3 in the NFL.

When I watch him, I see fundamentally sound quarterback play. He does make reads, he does make the right one usually, he does throw the ball accurately, and he developed his biggest initial weakness here (pocket navigation) into a strength in 2023.

I think if we clean up the defense into a unit that can get us more competitive on time of possession, we get the offensive rushing attack into a rhythm where it can start keeping the offense on schedule, and we get the pass protection into a more average range, we'll see upside most didn't know existed with the guy. Just like 2022.

A similar thing happened for Russell Wilson in 2018. We gave him a great rushing attack that we used to great effect, and we tightened up the defense a bit. He responded with incredible efficiency and proceeded to have his best years. I can't imagine Geno DOESN'T have some untapped upside if we make his job easier by making the rest of the team more... functional. I think that'd be true of any quarterback in the league. Mahomes and the Chiefs got absolutely embarrassed when his supporting cast failed him in the Super Bowl like Geno's did... well, most weeks.

Pete Carroll is my guy. I will always *love* that man. But he handed the keys off to the wrong dudes, and his damned loyalty didn't let him waver from them. He wasn't up to the task of molding them into great coaches (AS COORDINATORS, that is. I think Waldron and Hurtt ARE good coaches. I just don't think they're sufficient coordinators yet to be provided as much autonomy as Pete gave them). We might not have that problem going forward here.
 
Last edited:

WarHawks

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
1,948
Reaction score
1,528
If Jared Goff can get to a Super Bowl if his defense doesn't drop gift-wrapped Purdy interceptions, Geno Smith can with a similar level of assistance. That's my contention and I think it's a fair one.
Good lord. It never ends.
 

pittpnthrs

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
5,438
Reaction score
1,979
Huh.

Maybe we'll be more aligned post-Carroll.

Are you more surprised by my attitude or the comment?

Regardless buddy, don't you worry about it. We'll be at each others throats again soon enough. Lol.
 
OP
OP
Maelstrom787

Maelstrom787

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
12,031
Reaction score
10,036
Location
Delaware
Good lord. It never ends.
You're right, it never does end.

Geno in 2022 put up a nearly IDENTICAL year in production to Goff's 2023.

Unlike Goff, however, Geno did not have a fantastic offensive line and top-5 rushing offense to lean on.

Please, enlighten me as to why what I stated is beyond a rebuttal other than your performative incredulity. Unless the reason is really that you've backed yourself into a corner and can't argue against this with anything that doesn't have obvious logical holes in it, of course.

It can happen. It can obviously happen. Will it? Probably not, as it's not really an easy ask to just suddenly have a great OL and run game overnight.
 
Top