Refereeing complaint

[jammerhawk]

Has anyone noticed how many penalties are being called by these refereeing crews, this includes the flags they picked up?

I'm hopeful this isn't a new trend b/c it really sloooooows the game down and destroys any offensive rhythm. Some of the calls are pretty ticky tack fouls too. I know the first 2 preseason games have had referees in training working so they sort of look like replacement referees but I genuinely hope the calls slow down league wide and the players are allowed to play ball. JMO but the referee on Saturday seemed to be trying but not getting really good support from the rest of his crew.

 

[kidhawk]

It's pretty common in pre season games, to see penalties called at a higher rate than regular season. A lot of times, officials are trying to emphasize certain types of rules that may have altered slightly or been given emphasis during the off season. Other times, it's due to having more players out there who just aren't vets and who make sloppy mistakes.

Denver had 4 penalties just for illegal procedure Saturday. That's a season's worth for most teams and they were all called properly by the officials IMO.

if the trend continues long into the season I could see it becoming an issue, but for pre season games, it's just par for the course

 

[drcool]

I have never seen that ref from this last game against the Broncos before. It seemed like he was out there for his first time as a trial or something. He was very hesitant to make the calls, got stage fright when explaining the calls, and looked timid. Not sure if they use the preseason to test new guys or what. I did see Pete Carroll talking to another ref on the sideline who I recognize (kind of looks like Joe Torre) and thought he could be there overseeing the new guy.

In the preseason it also seems refs call everything tighter to set the tone for the season.

 

[kinesmajor]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

 

[Basis4day]

I have never seen that ref from this last game against the Broncos before. It seemed like he was out there for his first time as a trial or something. He was very hesitant to make the calls, got stage fright when explaining the calls, and looked timid. Not sure if they use the preseason to test new guys or what. I did see Pete Carroll talking to another ref on the sideline who I recognize (kind of looks like Joe Torre) and thought he could be there overseeing the new guy.

In the preseason it also seems refs call everything tighter to set the tone for the season.

http://www.footballzebras.com/2013/08/14/7505/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/o ... rbRo0r.htm

His name is Ronald Torbert. He was a side judge and a back judge the past 3 seasons. He's being evaluated this pre-season as a head referee.

 

[Largent80]

Weren't there 21 total penalties?

This could end up being huge during the season.

 

[chawx]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

Not yet.

But that seems like one of those rules (like holding) where they'll call it in the 3rd quarter of a game, when a team that "they" don't want to win busts out a nice 60-yard run or something. They'll say the running back lead with his helmet at the line of scrimmage before he broke though and negate the whole play. But you won't remember it because it happened in the 3rd quarter and people can still say, "it wasn't the refs, you had the whole rest of the game to do this, that, etc. etc."

Just another way they can control that Vegas line. :snack:

 

[LawlessHawk]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

Don't remember which of our backs it was but I remember one of them broke off a nice little gain through a hole and finished by lowering his helmet and sticking the defender square in the chest pretty hard and knocking him back. I looked around for a flag fully expecting that call since they were throwing one on every other play but nothing. Maybe it didn't apply on that particular run? :229031_shrug:

 

[Cartire]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

Not yet.

But that seems like one of those rules (like holding) where they'll call it in the 3rd quarter of a game, when a team that "they" don't want to win busts out a nice 60-yard run or something. They'll say the running back lead with his helmet at the line of scrimmage before he broke though and negate the whole play. But you won't remember it because it happened in the 3rd quarter and people can still say, "it wasn't the refs, you had the whole rest of the game to do this, that, etc. etc."

Just another way they can control that Vegas line. :snack:

Except they cant call it inbetween the tackles

 

[Largent80]

Wow, on goal line running situations, there is no avoiding going in head first. That fumble that Browner got could have been called leading with the helmet.

The refs have way too much control and their flubs cost championships to be lost and sadly, won.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There's always a lot of penalties called in pre-season. Especially after the first quarter or so when the 2nd and 3rd stringers are in trying to make plays. Make plays = hold, fight, jump offsides, hold some more, fight some more, etc.

Besides Okung's holding penalty, most of our penalties were by backups. So I'm not too worried about it.

 

[The Radish]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

Don't remember which of our backs it was but I remember one of them broke off a nice little gain through a hole and finished by lowering his helmet and sticking the defender square in the chest pretty hard and knocking him back. I looked around for a flag fully expecting that call since they were throwing one on every other play but nothing. Maybe it didn't apply on that particular run? :229031_shrug:

Was that the play the defender came over, got set right in front of Turbin and got knocked backwards on his ass? lol

I remember and figured they wouldn't call it there because the guy had doubled way over to set up for the tackle.

Great play by the way and the defender was the last one up.

:les:

 

[LawlessHawk]

Yeah, I think you're right that it was Turbin on that play.

 

[Cartire]

Wow, on goal line running situations, there is no avoiding going in head first. That fumble that Browner got could have been called leading with the helmet.

The refs have way too much control and their flubs cost championships to be lost and sadly, won.

And thus the rule doesnt apply. It cant be called between the tackles. Its an open field penalty.

This situation does not apply.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Wow, on goal line running situations, there is no avoiding going in head first. That fumble that Browner got could have been called leading with the helmet.

The refs have way too much control and their flubs cost championships to be lost and sadly, won.

And thus the rule doesnt apply. It cant be called between the tackles AND WITHIN 3 YARDS OF THE LOS. Its an open field penalty.

This situation does not apply.

Clarified for completeness.

 

[jammerhawk]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

Don't remember which of our backs it was but I remember one of them broke off a nice little gain through a hole and finished by lowering his helmet and sticking the defender square in the chest pretty hard and knocking him back. I looked around for a flag fully expecting that call since they were throwing one on every other play but nothing. Maybe it didn't apply on that particular run? :229031_shrug:

It was Spencer Ware, and I wondered why he wasn't called as the refs were calling everything else. I guess I need to watch that play again and see if it happened close enough to the LOS to excuse it.

 

[jammerhawk]

I have never seen that ref from this last game against the Broncos before. It seemed like he was out there for his first time as a trial or something. He was very hesitant to make the calls, got stage fright when explaining the calls, and looked timid. Not sure if they use the preseason to test new guys or what. I did see Pete Carroll talking to another ref on the sideline who I recognize (kind of looks like Joe Torre) and thought he could be there overseeing the new guy.

In the preseason it also seems refs call everything tighter to set the tone for the season.

http://www.footballzebras.com/2013/08/14/7505/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/o ... rbRo0r.htm

His name is Ronald Torbert. He was a side judge and a back judge the past 3 seasons. He's being evaluated this pre-season as a head referee.

In fact although he was wearing the referees hat he had a side-judge's uniform on during the game.

 

[sc85sis]

Have we seen the new rule enforced about running backs leading with their helmet?

Don't remember which of our backs it was but I remember one of them broke off a nice little gain through a hole and finished by lowering his helmet and sticking the defender square in the chest pretty hard and knocking him back. I looked around for a flag fully expecting that call since they were throwing one on every other play but nothing. Maybe it didn't apply on that particular run? :229031_shrug:

It was Spencer Ware, and I wondered why he wasn't called as the refs were calling everything else. I guess I need to watch that play again and see if it happened close enough to the LOS to excuse it.

Yeah it was Ware. I think he actually hit with his shoulder but he definitely did lower his head too.

 

[Basis4day]

I need to see the Ware play in question, but the requirements for the new rule are very specific. Below is the official video describing the scenarios. It is not simply "lowering the head" which i fear many are assuming.

http://www.nflevolution.com/article/vid ... 0000229934

"It is a foul if a runner or tackler initiates forcible contact by delivering a blow with the top/crown of his helmet against an opponent when both players are clearly outside the tackle box (an area extending from tackle to tackle and from three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team’s end line). Incidental contact by the helmet of a runner or tackler against an opponent shall not be a foul."

In the video distributed by the NFL, three elements must all be present for a flag to be thrown. The player must a.) line up his opponent, b.) lower his head and c.) deliver a forcible blow with the crown of his helmet.

 

[The Radish]

In another string talking about that the defender had gotten position and squated down so his face was about waist level planning on stopping the run cold.

What happened was he got knocked back on his ass. So under those conditions I don't see how they could have called that particular penalty.

tho they didn't seem to have any problems calling others.

:les: