Prisco asks if Wilson is much more than a game manager

[RolandDeschain]

Here's the thing that I think people forget: Brady won 3 Super Bowl rings running the same kind of safe offense that avoided turnovers and helped the defense. As he matured, he started throwing more, and they haven't won another ring. (I know, Spygate). Now, I know the reason you say this is that you want Wilson to set records and be a superstar. But if Bevell and Pete's system leads to multiple Super Bowls and Wilson continues to have 100+ QB ratings, will anybody keep him out of the HoF? Especially when you include his charity work, which the voters love to see.

Ultimately winning championships is more important to the team than statistics. (Except Richard Sherman )

Brady threw a hell of a lot more passes in his first three years starting than Wilson has in his first two.

Patriots rushing attempts and average, passing attempts & average:
2001: 473 & 3.8 YPC, 482 attempts, 6.9 yard avg
2002: 395 & 3.8 YPC, 605 attempts, 6.2 yard avg
2003: 473 & 3.4 YPC, 537 attempts, 6.8 yard avg

Seahawks rushing attempts and average, passing attempts & average:
2011: 444 & 4.0 YPC, 509 attempts, 6.8 yard avg (T-Jack's year)
2012: 536 & 4.8 YPC, 405 attempts, 8.0 yard avg
2013: 509 & 4.3 YPC, 420 attempts, 8.4 yard avg

 

[themunn]

Here's the thing that I think people forget: Brady won 3 Super Bowl rings running the same kind of safe offense that avoided turnovers and helped the defense. As he matured, he started throwing more, and they haven't won another ring. (I know, Spygate). Now, I know the reason you say this is that you want Wilson to set records and be a superstar. But if Bevell and Pete's system leads to multiple Super Bowls and Wilson continues to have 100+ QB ratings, will anybody keep him out of the HoF? Especially when you include his charity work, which the voters love to see.

Ultimately winning championships is more important to the team than statistics. (Except Richard Sherman )

Brady threw a hell of a lot more passes in his first three years starting than Wilson has in his first two.

Patriots rushing attempts and average, passing attempts & average:
2001: 473 & 3.8 YPC, 482 attempts, 6.9 yard avg
2002: 395 & 3.8 YPC, 605 attempts, 6.2 yard avg
2003: 473 & 3.4 YPC, 537 attempts, 6.8 yard avg

Seahawks rushing attempts and average, passing attempts & average:
2011: 444 & 4.0 YPC, 509 attempts, 6.8 yard avg (T-Jack's year)
2012: 536 & 4.8 YPC, 405 attempts, 8.0 yard avg
2013: 509 & 4.3 YPC, 420 attempts, 8.4 yard avg

All that does is prove his point. NE had absolutely no running game, so of course they attempted more passes.
But unless you're running a west coast offense, under 7 YPA means either you're a bad QB or a game manager.
We know it's not the former.

 

[DavidSeven]

Here's the thing that I think people forget: Brady won 3 Super Bowl rings running the same kind of safe offense that avoided turnovers and helped the defense. As he matured, he started throwing more, and they haven't won another ring. (I know, Spygate). Now, I know the reason you say this is that you want Wilson to set records and be a superstar. But if Bevell and Pete's system leads to multiple Super Bowls and Wilson continues to have 100+ QB ratings, will anybody keep him out of the HoF? Especially when you include his charity work, which the voters love to see.

Ultimately winning championships is more important to the team than statistics. (Except Richard Sherman )

Brady threw a hell of a lot more passes in his first three years starting than Wilson has in his first two.

Patriots rushing attempts and average, passing attempts & average:
2001: 473 & 3.8 YPC, 482 attempts, 6.9 yard avg
2002: 395 & 3.8 YPC, 605 attempts, 6.2 yard avg
2003: 473 & 3.4 YPC, 537 attempts, 6.8 yard avg

Seahawks rushing attempts and average, passing attempts & average:
2011: 444 & 4.0 YPC, 509 attempts, 6.8 yard avg (T-Jack's year)
2012: 536 & 4.8 YPC, 405 attempts, 8.0 yard avg
2013: 509 & 4.3 YPC, 420 attempts, 8.4 yard avg

Beyond what themunn stated above, those numbers are also skewed by the different rushing abilities of the QBs. Brady and T-Jack are not threats as runners. Russell runs over twice as much as them, many of which are on plays that are designed passes. Factor that in, and the numbers are way closer. The number of drop backs is probably nearly identical. The fact that T-Jack and Brady had similar numbers is the best example of this.

 

[Anthony!]

I don't know why this is so contentious. Our passing game has seriously struggled late this year. Some ofit goes to the OC and the wrs/line but a big chunk of that has to go on Wilson. Even Pete at his half time interview Sunday stated that Russell has got to get the ball out quicker. I don't know why this forum is so dead set on everything ALWAYS being everyone else's fault but Wilson's.

Because we see what is going on, the number of times there is no one to throw to, or he does not have time, PC also mentioned the Wr need to get space. Hard to get the ball out when there is no one to throw to. Because we have seen Rw when he has time and when there is some place to throw be very very successful, so logic dictates that there are other reason, outside of Rw for the issue. You have 2 straight years of qb ratings well over 100, completion # well over 60, that shows what he can do, so when he does less then the first thing you think of is injury, then protection, then wr separation, then play calling , and then Rw, since there is a recognized issues with protection, wr separation and play calling there is no need to go to the issue being Rw as when those 3 things are doing even ok he has shown he more than gets the job done. Its simple logic, based on performance history.

 

[kearly]

My support for Bevell is on hiatus until he proves he can run a safe, conservative offense that is more expansive than "run or play action." Even the 49ers players were joking about how limited Bevell is. And they were 110% correct.

The biggest shame is that I am completely certain that Wilson can handle a much more sophisticated offense. It just seems like such a waste of all that talent to have an OC who makes us so 1-dimensional.

In fairness to Bevell, a lot of the sins he's committed as OC were under marching orders from Pete. Until Pete relaxes just a little on the turnover issue, I don't think we'll ever have the offense that Wilson is capable of leading.

Here's the thing that I think people forget: Brady won 3 Super Bowl rings running the same kind of safe offense that avoided turnovers and helped the defense. As he matured, he started throwing more, and they haven't won another ring. (I know, Spygate). Now, I know the reason you say this is that you want Wilson to set records and be a superstar. But if Bevell and Pete's system leads to multiple Super Bowls and Wilson continues to have 100+ QB ratings, will anybody keep him out of the HoF? Especially when you include his charity work, which the voters love to see.

Ultimately winning championships is more important to the team than statistics. (Except Richard Sherman )

I think you are missing the point. I'm okay with a simple offense. This same simple offense was #1 in DVOA last season. What I am not okay with an offense that is extremely easy to game plan. Unfortunately, it's not 2012 any more and defensive coordinators have figured us out.

Tom Brady has nothing to do with my my point. I could care less if Russell Wilson were a game manager QB if the offense were #1 in DVOA every year. This isn't about being greedy, it's about adressing a major problem, apparently one that many Seahawks fans are still unable to see.

We run too much play action, but that's not the real problem. The problem is that when teams attack play action, WE HAVE NO ANSWER. There are no throws from the vacated area, there is no contingency plan. You know what happens? RW mutters "ah shit, not this again" and then runs around a little before either taking a sack or throwing out of bounds (and almost always taking a big hit, too). Maybe 1/20 times he'll make some miracle play but defenses have us by the short ones right now on play action and despite there being simple fixes available, Seattle REFUSES to do them. It's maddening. And as a result, the former #1 offense in DVOA is now #8, and near the end of the season it was probably in the lower half of the league.

Even if the Seahawks correct this next season, I'll be disappointed that it took a full season to fix something any other OC would have probably corrected in a week or two. The next time DCs outsmart Bevell, will it take him another year to adjust to the next issue? This is why I'm not his biggest fan right now. He was super-slow at adjusting to mindless auto-blitzing in the early months of this season too, lets not forget that.

 

[RolandDeschain]

And as a result, the former #1 offense in DVOA is now #8, and near the end of the season it was probably in the lower half of the league.

Football Outsiders was actually quite forgiving to our offense because of the string of defenses played.

Where the Seahawks offense ranked in DVOA for the season at this week in the season (not the ranking for that specific week, I'm talking about season-to-date):
1: 10th
2: 13th
3: 5th
4: 9th
5: 9th
6: 10th
7: 12th
8: 14th
9: 13th
10: 8th
11: 7th
12: Bye
13: 5th
14: 6th
15: 7th
16: 8th
17: 7th