Prisco asks if Wilson is much more than a game manager

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 2m
Seahawks' offense ranks 30th in 3rd-down conversion rate since Week 14.


^ "Everybody's fault but Bevell's."

You'll have to remind me where the blame has been pinned for this.

People love to complain about Bevell, but never EVER give him any credit.

It's embarrassing how many negative Bevell threads there are on game day.

A grip needs to be regained on this subject. We have an exceptional team with exceptional coaches. And we should be damn proud of the job lot, without exception.

 

[RolandDeschain]

So you're accusing the other side of doing what you yourself have been doing; that is, assigning all blame to one side of the aisle? (If I've missed you bashing Bevell, feel free to link me.)

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

Point guard must be the same as game manager? With a run first team, it's got to be difficult to put up the passing stats that a pass first offense does. This is true especially if you consider that most, if not all,
QB's need to establish a "passing rhythm" to be very successful.

IMO, the run game is intended to burn the clock and keep the other team's offense on the bench, while at the same time allowing our defense some extra rest beyond the normal. On numerous occasions, we have all seen RW pass VERY effectively with many come back wins. If RW is needed to be a pure passer, I'm confident he can meet all expectations. The bottom line seems to be run while ahead or close in score, pass when behind and always, of course, win the game any way possible. RW can and will do that.

 

[FargoHawk]

So you're accusing the other side of doing what you yourself have been doing; that is, assigning all blame to one side of the aisle? (If I've missed you bashing Bevell, feel free to link me.)

**waving a stopwatch** We are in the Super Bowl, We are in the Super Bowl

You are relentless with your Bevell bashing. Just freakin enjoy the season and appreciate where we are.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

So you're accusing the other side of doing what you yourself have been doing; that is, assigning all blame to one side of the aisle? (If I've missed you bashing Bevell, feel free to link me.)

Eh?

I haven't apportioned any blame to anyone.

The only point I've ever made on this is -- people have made Bevell a scapegoat. It's always his fault.

Time and time again people blame ONE guy for any issue on offense. Bevell.

This is a collective effort. PC and Cable have a lot of influence on the offense along with Bevell. Sometimes the players don't execute. Sometimes a defense plays great. Sometimes Bevell is at fault.

Your tweet to Prisco was a classic example of the scape goating silliness we get on here all the time.

How can any fan base criticise the offensive coordinator when the team has a top-10 unit and is in the Super Bowl?

 

[RolandDeschain]

Just freakin enjoy the season and appreciate where we are.

I am, and I do.

You are relentless with your Bevell bashing.

I haven't even participated in half the threads that have discussed Bevell in the past month or two. Good luck with your future attempts at getting me to not discuss something on a message board, though. I'm sure it'll shut me up.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I haven't apportioned any blame to anyone.

I take it you still don't see my point, lol.

 

[hawk45]

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 2m
Seahawks' offense ranks 30th in 3rd-down conversion rate since Week 14.


^ "Everybody's fault but Bevell's."

You'll have to remind me where the blame has been pinned for this.

People love to complain about Bevell, but never EVER give him any credit.

It's embarrassing how many negative Bevell threads there are on game day.

A grip needs to be regained on this subject. We have an exceptional team with exceptional coaches. And we should be damn proud of the job lot, without exception.

Untrue that people never give him credit. There are some who definitely criticize Bevell first, but there are just as many (such as yourself) who just say look at the offense, the argument must be over. Would that be similar to Bradley being responsible for the defensive success last year?

We can't really isolate the different contributors, so I think it makes sense there are different viewpoints.

FWIW I have had no problem with Bevell the last 2 weeks other than the occasional empty backfield set where it doesn't belong. Last week in particular he caught me off guard a couple of times such as passing on 2nd and long after a pass on 1st. I don't have an issue with run-run-pass during a few offensive series because if you're not doing that you're being predictable in a different direction. In fact I want to say there was a drive he went run-run-run and it worked really well. That's because, I think, he had been doing a good job of varying that sort of thing within the same drive, something I don't feel he has always done.

 

[mikeak]

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 2m
Seahawks' offense ranks 30th in 3rd-down conversion rate since Week 14.


^ "Everybody's fault but Bevell's."

Checked that guys twitter out.
These were interesting stats

When Russell Wilson gets pressured on 3rd down, he's converted 12-of-64 plays (18.8%).

Manning converts under pressure on 3rd down 7-of-33 plays (21.2%).

Very similar conversion rates, but Wilson gets pressured twice as much on only around 2/3s as many dropbacks.
I looked at our total 3rd down conversion rate for the season, and on plays where Wilson ISN'T pressured (unfortunately I couldn't separate rushing plays), we converted 74/168 3rd downs (44.0%).

For all Wilson's escapability under pressure, it doesn't seem to have brought tangible results

One point on this. Denver may be able to create some pressure but no way they keep RW in check like SF, Arizona and ST Louis did........ His ability to move around will most definately be followed by 1st down runs against the Denver defense.

Secondly - he has been passing lately even when 1st down is available. Interesting to see if that changes in the Superbowl where moving the chains is going to be priority number 1 every time

Not worried about 3rd down, moving the ball etc. My only worry is about Seahawks scoring in the redzone. If we open that playbook up for the first time this year we win the game.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 2m
Seahawks' offense ranks 30th in 3rd-down conversion rate since Week 14.


^ "Everybody's fault but Bevell's."

You'll have to remind me where the blame has been pinned for this.

People love to complain about Bevell, but never EVER give him any credit.

It's embarrassing how many negative Bevell threads there are on game day.

A grip needs to be regained on this subject. We have an exceptional team with exceptional coaches. And we should be damn proud of the job lot, without exception.

Untrue that people never give him credit. There are some who definitely criticize Bevell first, but there are just as many (such as yourself) who just say look at the offense, the argument must be over. Would that be similar to Bradley being responsible for the defensive success last year?

We can't really isolate the different contributors, so I think it makes sense there are different viewpoints.

FWIW I have had no problem with Bevell the last 2 weeks other than the occasional empty backfield set where it doesn't belong. Last week in particular he caught me off guard a couple of times such as passing on 2nd and long after a pass on 1st. I don't have an issue with run-run-pass during a few offensive series because if you're not doing that you're being predictable in a different direction. In fact I want to say there was a drive he went run-run-run and it worked really well. That's because, I think, he had been doing a good job of varying that sort of thing within the same drive, something I don't feel he has always done.

I don't see Bevell getting much credit. There's a difference between trying to grasp some perspective amid all the pitchfork waving and giving a guy praise.

I don't really get the Bradley point. I think Gus did an excellent job. Give him Avril and Bennett last year and I think we'd be #1 just like 2013. Essentially in 2012 we worked with one pass rusher (Clemons) and a nickel specialist (Irvin). That's not enough and a big reason why we lost a few close ones with late drives. Even this year we've seen in our three losses the defeats were pretty much the same -- late drives we couldn't stop and didn't finish.

Overall I think Bevell has done a terrific job for the last two years. Outstanding.

We're not a Peyton Manning team who is going to put up massive yards and points. We do what we do. And what we did in 2013 was still good enough to field a top-10 offense. DESPITE losing Okung and Giacomini for weeks -- and not having Harvin or Rice. That would cripple most passing games completely.

We've also played some frightening defenses this year -- all three NFC West opponents field exceptional defenses. We've had Carolina and New Orleans. Houston's defense was still emphatic in week four.

I'm not sure why we ever complain to be honest. Unless we expect perfection, we have the #7 offense, #1 defense and #5 special teams. We're in the Super Bowl. According to DVOA we have one of the best teams in the history of the NFL. And in just over a week we might have our first title.

If there's ever a time to say -- there's nothing to moan about -- this is it.

 

[hawk45]

One thing we can say for certainty about Bradley is he was utterly replaceable and losing him didn't hurt us at all. I also think he would have looked better with a pass rush. But we seem to agree that the magic didn't come from Bradley or Quinn necessarily.

Similarly, most passing offenses would be crippled on offense without Russell Wilson. Bevell isn't the sole provider of the magic there. I have a larger list of criticisms during that stretch of time but won't go into them.

A dude called Russell a game manager, and the counterpoint to that was to suggest Bevell as a contributing factor. The point was as much to suggest Russell is not Alex Smith as it was to complain.

You completely ruling out Bevell for any struggles, or saying it's unknowable, might appear just as knee-jerk as complaining about Bevell appears to you. If it's not provable that Bevell is responsible for any struggles, how is it provable that Bevell is untouchable if one just points to overall (good) offensive performance? That's trying to have it both ways and Roland's point on that score is legit.

I agree that the general mood should be a happy one, but you do understand that leaping in to white-knight Bevell accomplishes the opposite of what you intend. I dislike using a broad-based term like white-knight because it's lazy and I feel insulting, but that door opened with the scorn that was leveled at a broad base of Bevell bashers, and at the gameday forum.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

It is cartoonish and silly to blame one thing for something like this. Bevell's playcalling, Wilson's conservative nature, Pete Carroll's conservative nature, and the schematic limits to our offensive talent (O-line and WR both) are all factors.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Oh, I get it. Prisco is an idiot, yet somehow agreeing with you dignifies his response.

Haha! Definitely not an idiot, but why would he base the 'game manager' conclusion on 'watching him for the last week?' Not a large enough sample.

 

[jblaze]

I thought Bevell came out in the SF game and was very aggressive. Everyone knows we want to run first, play it safe, etc and here we come with a playaction in the first play of the game that could have been a huge play and set the tone. Second play? Another pass. They set the precedent all season that we're ultra conservative and we always play it safe and I thought Bevell did a good job of being more aggressive.

It gives me hope that he'll pull out all the stops again with the Bronco's. I think we're more than capable of it but it's not how we're constructed and when you can just line up and run down people's throats, why wouldn't you? We did that against most teams this year and it sets the physicality tone that we need to be successful.

I think Bevell will pull out the aggressiveness when appropriate in the SB. SF's secondary was suseptible and so is Denver's so I would expect something similar. Less 6 offensive linemen though, more TE's in routes would be wise imo also. It worked in the last game but Denver doesn't have the defensive line so it's not necessary.

He'll pull out some flashy play calls, you'll see. Leave it all on the field!

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

You completely ruling out Bevell for any struggles, or saying it's unknowable, might appear just as knee-jerk as complaining about Bevell appears to you.

It would be if I had ever completely ruled Bevell out for any of the issues.

I have not.

I've questioned Bevell plenty of times. He is not flawless.

But neither is he the sole reason why anything ever goes wrong on offense. That's the point I keep trying to make.

Considering we fielded the #7 offense and are looking forward to the Super Bowl -- there is WAY too much complaining about the offensive coordinator on this forum.

 

[plyka]

All the credit goes to the OC for what offense we've had, but none of the blame, eh? Alright.

I don't like Bevell very much, but I did see a huge difference in the playcalls against the niners. He finally added in some surprise. Less predictability is good. He still needs to add in some complexity to the passing attack. For goodness sakes, how hard is it to watch some film of Denver and attempt to steal a few plays here or there?

 

[TJH]

I don't know why this is so contentious. Our passing game has seriously struggled late this year. Some ofit goes to the OC and the wrs/line but a big chunk of that has to go on Wilson. Even Pete at his half time interview Sunday stated that Russell has got to get the ball out quicker. I don't know why this forum is so dead set on everything ALWAYS being everyone else's fault but Wilson's.

 

[kearly]

My support for Bevell is on hiatus until he proves he can run a safe, conservative offense that is more expansive than "run or play action." Even the 49ers players were joking about how limited Bevell is. And they were 110% correct.

The biggest shame is that I am completely certain that Wilson can handle a much more sophisticated offense. It just seems like such a waste of all that talent to have an OC who makes us so 1-dimensional.

In fairness to Bevell, a lot of the sins he's committed as OC were under marching orders from Pete. Until Pete relaxes just a little on the turnover issue, I don't think we'll ever have the offense that Wilson is capable of leading.

 

[Sarlacc83]

My support for Bevell is on hiatus until he proves he can run a safe, conservative offense that is more expansive than "run or play action." Even the 49ers players were joking about how limited Bevell is. And they were 110% correct.

The biggest shame is that I am completely certain that Wilson can handle a much more sophisticated offense. It just seems like such a waste of all that talent to have an OC who makes us so 1-dimensional.

In fairness to Bevell, a lot of the sins he's committed as OC were under marching orders from Pete. Until Pete relaxes just a little on the turnover issue, I don't think we'll ever have the offense that Wilson is capable of leading.

Here's the thing that I think people forget: Brady won 3 Super Bowl rings running the same kind of safe offense that avoided turnovers and helped the defense. As he matured, he started throwing more, and they haven't won another ring. (I know, Spygate). Now, I know the reason you say this is that you want Wilson to set records and be a superstar. But if Bevell and Pete's system leads to multiple Super Bowls and Wilson continues to have 100+ QB ratings, will anybody keep him out of the HoF? Especially when you include his charity work, which the voters love to see.

Ultimately winning championships is more important to the team than statistics. (Except Richard Sherman )

 

[DavidSeven]

Here's the thing that I think people forget: Brady won 3 Super Bowl rings running the same kind of safe offense that avoided turnovers and helped the defense. As he matured, he started throwing more, and they haven't won another ring. (I know, Spygate). Now, I know the reason you say this is that you want Wilson to set records and be a superstar. But if Bevell and Pete's system leads to multiple Super Bowls and Wilson continues to have 100+ QB ratings, will anybody keep him out of the HoF? Especially when you include his charity work, which the voters love to see.

Ultimately winning championships is more important to the team than statistics. (Except Richard Sherman )

This is a fantastic point. Brady was the very definition of a game manager in his first season as a starter. From 2002-2004, he continued to play in a quite conservative offense. Never even sniffed 4,000 yards passing and obviously wasn't doing anything with his legs. They leaned on a really good defense and came out with three rings by the end of it. Statistically, Russell actually has a chance to blow Brady out of the water (though he may never eclipse that 2007/Moss season). If his team consistently contends on top of it? He'll be talked about in the same light as Brady.