Pick #35 Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State

[Hawks46]

I can't theorize as to the practice stuff. It's troubling, but McDowell had a line where he said "look, I'm not getting paid to play. When I get paid to play, watch out" ...paraphrased a bit. Sure, people don't want to see that, but it is a factor.

I see in games where you have a 6'6" athletic freak being stuck inside in the A gap and constantly getting double and triple teamed. This can hurt a lot of athlete's motivation and get you pissed off at your coaching staff. He had some statements before the draft that he knew he was misused and played out of position. These talented kids know it's hurting their draft stock and costing them money to be utilized incorrectly. It wouldn't surprised me if a 20 year old went "screw it, I'm not going go all out for these guys because they just keep sticking me in the middle with no chance"

And even then at 6'6" you see him blowing up double teams. You see his pad level get low. That's not easy for a guy his height battling inside, and it wears on you and tires you out.

I like the potential. I'll save judgement for after he gets here, works with our DL leaders and our coaches and we'll see where he's at.

 

[chris98251]

I can't theorize as to the practice stuff. It's troubling, but McDowell had a line where he said "look, I'm not getting paid to play. When I get paid to play, watch out" ...paraphrased a bit. Sure, people don't want to see that, but it is a factor.

I see in games where you have a 6'6" athletic freak being stuck inside in the A gap and constantly getting double and triple teamed. This can hurt a lot of athlete's motivation and get you pissed off at your coaching staff. He had some statements before the draft that he knew he was misused and played out of position. These talented kids know it's hurting their draft stock and costing them money to be utilized incorrectly. It wouldn't surprised me if a 20 year old went "screw it, I'm not going go all out for these guys because they just keep sticking me in the middle with no chance"

And even then at 6'6" you see him blowing up double teams. You see his pad level get low. That's not easy for a guy his height battling inside, and it wears on you and tires you out.

I like the potential. I'll save judgement for after he gets here, works with our DL leaders and our coaches and we'll see where he's at.

I want him lined up across from our meanest baddest O Lineman and see what kind of head he really has on his shoulders.

 

[ivotuk]

He's going to surprise a lot of people. I listened to the 710 podcast when they were talking to a writer from Michigan, and he said a lot of the players were mailing it in. He thinks Malik is going to be very good.

I think he'll be in the Defensive Rookie of the Year discussion.

In case you want to hear it for yourself:

May 3, 2017 - Brock and Salk Hour 2

Potpourri? Brock and Salk cover a few different topics to kick off this hour. What should you expect from a sports TV station? What will be Cishek's role be when he comes back? Finally, are the Hawks in better shape today to make a Super Bowl then they were at the end of last season?

David DeMarco from 730 The Game joins the show to give us a little insight on just who is Malik McDowell.


Good News, Bad News, No News: M's send down Vogelbach, Isaiah Thomas scores 53 on his sister's birthday, and Saban signs extension.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/ ... 07&n=Brock and Salk

 

[West TX Hawk]

I see a lot of people are attempting to rationalize McDowell's effort, laziness or attitude. You can theorize countless excuses but ultimately he and no one else is responsible. There were all kinds of prospects who suffered through losing seasons and other worse scenarios, yet continually gave it their all. Just accept that fact and stop rationalizing...BUT...

He starts now with an absolute clean slate and the ultimate opportunity. He has a new enthusiastic DL coach and outstanding veteran DL teammates who will all be willing to work with him, help him and mold him into the pro bowl player he's capable of becoming. It's not going to come overnight-he has much to learn technique wise for the pro level, but with his size, arm length, speed off the line, tremendous power and all around freakish, God-given talent, the world could be his. It's up to him.

So I am very excited about this young man's future here. Don't expect him to be in there every series. There will be a learning curve and they'll ease him in like Clark, but when he gets going and we have our 4 warriors in sub packages it's going to be a treat to watch!

 

[ivotuk]

I see a lot of people are attempting to rationalize McDowell's effort, laziness or attitude. You can theorize countless excuses but ultimately he and no one else is responsible. There were all kinds of prospects who suffered through losing seasons and other worse scenarios, yet continually gave it their all. Just accept that fact and stop rationalizing...BUT...

He starts now with an absolute clean slate and the ultimate opportunity. He has a new enthusiastic DL coach and outstanding veteran DL teammates who will all be willing to work with him, help him and mold him into the pro bowl player he's capable of becoming. It's not going to come overnight-he has much to learn technique wise for the pro level, but with his size, arm length, speed off the line, tremendous power and all around freakish, God-given talent, the world could be his. It's up to him.

So I am very excited about this young man's future here. Don't expect him to be in there every series. There will be a learning curve and they'll ease him in like Clark, but when he gets going and we have our 4 warriors in sub packages it's going to be a treat to watch!

How do you know he's lazy?

Did you listen to the podcast? He was asked to play NT, where he was double and triple teamed. And he had some injuries that slowed him down, and he was the only talent on the Dline.

It's not "Rationalizing" as you say. Rationalizing requires one to ignore the facts. I am merely stating them. I have no idea how he will work out here, but I see him as being an elite prospect.

 

[ivotuk]

"When you assess the talent of the player in a vacuum, it’s hard to see him as anything other than a superstar waiting to happen."

"In a season halted three games early by injuries, McDowell only managed to rack up 34 tackles, seven tackles-for-loss and one-and-a-half sacks. McDowell received all the attention up front, being double and triple teamed at times. While the stats don’t show much, the planning to slow him down certainly did."

"In 2016, McDowell was put in a position to fail as much as he was put into a position to succeed. Michigan State used him as a nose tackle for portions of the season, a role that he’s woefully undersized for. Frustration at how he was utilized might explain some of the perceived body language and effort concerns that some onlookers have with the player."


http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/0 ... ng-report/

 

[chris98251]

If he could tie up three guys or two guys then I would say he was doing fine, making the plays in addition is phenomenal, NT's primarily are to eat space and get attention and not get moved, everything else is a bonus.

 

[West TX Hawk]

I see a lot of people are attempting to rationalize McDowell's effort, laziness or attitude. You can theorize countless excuses but ultimately he and no one else is responsible. There were all kinds of prospects who suffered through losing seasons and other worse scenarios, yet continually gave it their all. Just accept that fact and stop rationalizing...BUT...

He starts now with an absolute clean slate and the ultimate opportunity. He has a new enthusiastic DL coach and outstanding veteran DL teammates who will all be willing to work with him, help him and mold him into the pro bowl player he's capable of becoming. It's not going to come overnight-he has much to learn technique wise for the pro level, but with his size, arm length, speed off the line, tremendous power and all around freakish, God-given talent, the world could be his. It's up to him.

So I am very excited about this young man's future here. Don't expect him to be in there every series. There will be a learning curve and they'll ease him in like Clark, but when he gets going and we have our 4 warriors in sub packages it's going to be a treat to watch!

How do you know he's lazy?

Did you listen to the podcast? He was asked to play NT, where he was double and triple teamed. And he had some injuries that slowed him down, and he was the only talent on the Dline.

It's not "Rationalizing" as you say. Rationalizing requires one to ignore the facts. I am merely stating them. I have no idea how he will work out here, but I see him as being an elite prospect.

I certainly find him an elite prospect also as my post later dictated and as I expressed a few times in this thread. But JS himself addressed the effort and "motor" issues with him and the talks they had with him about this specifically. When I see the tape of him more than once just completely stopping and making no attempt to tackle the RB this equates to laziness in my book. When I read about him taking himself out of games for no apparent reason, I interpret this is as a form of resignation or laziness-a refusal to give full effort. Citing a report that others "mailed it in also" sure as hell doesn't make it ok for him to.

I've seen the tape of him where is he is continually double or triple teamed. Undoubtedly this had to be frustrating for him and he lacked any real support along the line, but you still have to give the appearance you're always trying out there. It was reported he later had regret about this also.

We also must have different interpretations as to "rationalization." I've found that this is not ignoring facts but rather attempting to justify or explain the reason for facts. The facts appear to be that he did not always give full effort. Many have attempted to make excuses or "rationalize" the reasons for this fact.

From a physical and pure talent perspective, I actually find him the most exciting and intriguing draft pick since Lockett. I expect big things from him, but Carroll and his teammates will demand full effort all the time. There's no taking off plays in the NFL because he's sad, frustrated, losing or double teamed. Carroll will not tolerate that at all.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I see a lot of people are attempting to rationalize McDowell's effort, laziness or attitude.

It was bound to happen. We're in the post-draft honeymoon period now and no mistake. I agree with you - call it laziness or frustration or whatever, his attitude was not optimal, and his fall was deserved. He could have done better.

I personally worry about what the seeds of his personality might grow into years later if PC doesn't keep the defensive line and its coaching stocked with talent. Right now, Malik is walking into an ideal situation. Years later, once Pete's gone and whatever goober (God forbid) takes over this team and butchers the defense, will he morph into another Sherman? Or perhaps worse, a Harvin or T.O.? The question is worth asking. Let's not overinflate the guy because we want to feel good about the draft.

BUT...I also want to believe in the guy. 20 is young. His situation was legitimately tough. Pete and John seem to have confidence in his readiness.

Perhaps the sullen senior year of his will be the lesson that grows him. The Air Force was that for me. If you'd have seen me in my final year of service, you wouldn't have expected me to amount to much. I let the adversity of the system get to me and turn me into a self-pitying minimalist. But when the time came for my next life mission - teaching for three years on an isolated reservation - I applied the lessons I'd learned. I knew I was doomed otherwise. I let myself laugh at adversity (M*A*S*H style - keeps you sane). I chose to react to hard situations by lowering my head and walking straight into them, remembering how good I had it in many ways. My Air Force crash-and-burn did not repeat itself.

 

[Hawks46]

It makes sense people will try to justify the pick and the attitude. Pete and John typically don't draft unmotivated guys, so people will try to get into the pick and figure out what PC/JS saw in him.

People will either try to justify the pick, or tear it apart. There's not goinig to be much ambivalence over our 1st pick, especially with passionate fans.

Reports were that other players on that squad also mailed it in. McDowell is only 20 years old. You definitely have a herd mentality at 20 and can be really influenced by your peers. I'll reserve judgement for when I see him on the field next to guys like Bennett and Avril and see what Richard and company can do with him. One thing's for sure; we won't play him at NT, and there hasn't been a lot of reps (that I can find, granted it's all youtube stuff) where he slacks off in the 3T or 5T.

 

[Jimjones0384]

I see a lot of people are attempting to rationalize McDowell's effort, laziness or attitude. You can theorize countless excuses but ultimately he and no one else is responsible. There were all kinds of prospects who suffered through losing seasons and other worse scenarios, yet continually gave it their all. Just accept that fact and stop rationalizing...BUT...

He starts now with an absolute clean slate and the ultimate opportunity. He has a new enthusiastic DL coach and outstanding veteran DL teammates who will all be willing to work with him, help him and mold him into the pro bowl player he's capable of becoming. It's not going to come overnight-he has much to learn technique wise for the pro level, but with his size, arm length, speed off the line, tremendous power and all around freakish, God-given talent, the world could be his. It's up to him.

So I am very excited about this young man's future here. Don't expect him to be in there every series. There will be a learning curve and they'll ease him in like Clark, but when he gets going and we have our 4 warriors in sub packages it's going to be a treat to watch!

How do you know he's lazy?

Did you listen to the podcast? He was asked to play NT, where he was double and triple teamed. And he had some injuries that slowed him down, and he was the only talent on the Dline.

It's not "Rationalizing" as you say. Rationalizing requires one to ignore the facts. I am merely stating them. I have no idea how he will work out here, but I see him as being an elite prospect.

I certainly find him an elite prospect also as my post later dictated and as I expressed a few times in this thread. But JS himself addressed the effort and "motor" issues with him and the talks they had with him about this specifically. When I see the tape of him more than once just completely stopping and making no attempt to tackle the RB this equates to laziness in my book. When I read about him taking himself out of games for no apparent reason, I interpret this is as a form of resignation or laziness-a refusal to give full effort. Citing a report that others "mailed it in also" sure as hell doesn't make it ok for him to.

I've seen the tape of him where is he is continually double or triple teamed. Undoubtedly this had to be frustrating for him and he lacked any real support along the line, but you still have to give the appearance you're always trying out there. It was reported he later had regret about this also.

We also must have different interpretations as to "rationalization." I've found that this is not ignoring facts but rather attempting to justify or explain the reason for facts. The facts appear to be that he did not always give full effort. Many have attempted to make excuses or "rationalize" the reasons for this fact.

From a physical and pure talent perspective, I actually find him the most exciting and intriguing draft pick since Lockett. I expect big things from him, but Carroll and his teammates will demand full effort all the time. There's no taking off plays in the NFL because he's sad, frustrated, losing or double teamed. Carroll will not tolerate that at all.

He also brought up the high ankle sprain he battled through the whole season. Imagine having to generate that power on a high ankle sprain. PC went on to say that his sophomore film when he is healthy is better, and probably more indicative of his effort and skill level.

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2017/05/04 ... pn-seattle

 

[xgeoff]

My big problem here is that people seem to have amnesia when it comes to these dl picks. Clark and Reed were steals who were supposed to give us a dominant dl. Remember that? Anybody remember that? And don't get me wrong, they are good players, but they are not dominating from what I can see. Seriously how much draft capital do we have to throw at the dl?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

lol Frank Clark is still a puppy. 13 sacks and 3 FF from #58 overall pick in 2015. I think every team in the league would take that production with that pick. He's already well on his way to being one of the leagues top sack artists and Reed had a more than fine rookie campaign. You expect these guys to be knocking on Cantons door the first day they put on a Seahawks jersey?

I think there is a misunderstanding about what I said about Reed and Clark. I never said these guys were busts. I never said they weren't good. What I said was that they were supposed to be so great, and that people just gushed over those picks, and yet here we are again spending top draft capital on that position.

Now, some have made the argument that Clark IS all that. And frankly, looking at 10 sacks last year, maybe you guys are right. Maybe Clark IS all that and Reed is doing exactly what he's supposed to do and has had an excellent Rookie campaign.

My point is that, if these guys are doing their job (which it looks like they are) and our D is ranked highly and playing well (I think they were ranked 5th in the league last year). AND one could argue that the only reason we weren't #1 is because of the injury to Earl Thomas.

If all that is true, then wouldn't it make sense to more fully address what is holding us back, which is our OLine, rather than continue to address a position which looks like it's in good shape?

So in terms of McDowell, the kid looks terrific. I'd just rather have Forrest Lamp because I think he would have made a bigger impact on the success of the team.

 

[scutterhawk]

Anyone who says that defensive line wasn't a position of need hasn't been paying attention.

Is the offensive line a position of need also? Of course. But say you have the top guy at one position of need rated a 90 and the top guy at another position of need a 70. If you ever take the 70 instead of the 90, you are making a colossal mistake, regardless of whether or not the 70 might play at a position of greater need.

We let 3 of the top 4 Olineman on the board go (our biggest and most crucial need) and drafted a guy that was ranked by most as a low 2nd to mid 3rd round pick.

Just figured out your problem nash....you're statement "Ranked By Most" tells me and everyone else, that you believe in someone else's ranking system, because "THEY" most match YOUR desired picks better than JS & the Seahawks scouting EXPERTS do.
"THEY" aren't experts on the players of need, or fit for the Seahawks.
"THEY" can get it WRONG, and often do.

 

[TransGenderHawkFan]

My big problem here is that people seem to have amnesia when it comes to these dl picks. Clark and Reed were steals who were supposed to give us a dominant dl. Remember that? Anybody remember that? And don't get me wrong, they are good players, but they are not dominating from what I can see. Seriously how much draft capital do we have to throw at the dl?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

lol Frank Clark is still a puppy. 13 sacks and 3 FF from #58 overall pick in 2015. I think every team in the league would take that production with that pick. He's already well on his way to being one of the leagues top sack artists and Reed had a more than fine rookie campaign. You expect these guys to be knocking on Cantons door the first day they put on a Seahawks jersey?

I think there is a misunderstanding about what I said about Reed and Clark. I never said these guys were busts. I never said they weren't good. What I said was that they were supposed to be so great, and that people just gushed over those picks, and yet here we are again spending top draft capital on that position.

Now, some have made the argument that Clark IS all that. And frankly, looking at 10 sacks last year, maybe you guys are right. Maybe Clark IS all that and Reed is doing exactly what he's supposed to do and has had an excellent Rookie campaign.

My point is that, if these guys are doing their job (which it looks like they are) and our D is ranked highly and playing well (I think they were ranked 5th in the league last year). AND one could argue that the only reason we weren't #1 is because of the injury to Earl Thomas.

If all that is true, then wouldn't it make sense to more fully address what is holding us back, which is our OLine, rather than continue to address a position which looks like it's in good shape?

So in terms of McDowell, the kid looks terrific. I'd just rather have Forrest Lamp because I think he would have made a bigger impact on the success of the team.

Avril and Bennett are both over 30 and one of our strengths has been depth which we lacked last year. We addressed it and became younger as well.

Look, we get it, you love lamp as much as Ron Burgundy

 

[titan3131]

If you believe that Pete isnt LYING to us then Malik played all year on a HIGH ANKLE SPRAIN- a broken leg.

sounds lazy to me /rollseyes

 

[titan3131]

If you believe that Pete isnt LYING to us then Malik played all year on a HIGH ANKLE SPRAIN- a broken leg.

sounds lazy to me /rollseyes

Where are you getting broken leg?

The term High ankle sprain is the new terminology for the older term of a "broken Leg" According to Dave wyman.

 

[Steve2222]

My big problem here is that people seem to have amnesia when it comes to these dl picks. Clark and Reed were steals who were supposed to give us a dominant dl. Remember that? Anybody remember that? And don't get me wrong, they are good players, but they are not dominating from what I can see. Seriously how much draft capital do we have to throw at the dl?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

lol Frank Clark is still a puppy. 13 sacks and 3 FF from #58 overall pick in 2015. I think every team in the league would take that production with that pick. He's already well on his way to being one of the leagues top sack artists and Reed had a more than fine rookie campaign. You expect these guys to be knocking on Cantons door the first day they put on a Seahawks jersey?

I think there is a misunderstanding about what I said about Reed and Clark. I never said these guys were busts. I never said they weren't good. What I said was that they were supposed to be so great, and that people just gushed over those picks, and yet here we are again spending top draft capital on that position.

Now, some have made the argument that Clark IS all that. And frankly, looking at 10 sacks last year, maybe you guys are right. Maybe Clark IS all that and Reed is doing exactly what he's supposed to do and has had an excellent Rookie campaign.

My point is that, if these guys are doing their job (which it looks like they are) and our D is ranked highly and playing well (I think they were ranked 5th in the league last year). AND one could argue that the only reason we weren't #1 is because of the injury to Earl Thomas.

If all that is true, then wouldn't it make sense to more fully address what is holding us back, which is our OLine, rather than continue to address a position which looks like it's in good shape?

So in terms of McDowell, the kid looks terrific. I'd just rather have Forrest Lamp because I think he would have made a bigger impact on the success of the team.

I don't know about you put the thought of Avril, Bennett, McDowell, and Clark DL on 3rd and 8 sounds extremely enticing to me.

 

[sdog1981]

Pete today stated that they are going to start him off as a 5 tech like they did with Red Bryant.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

My point is that, if these guys are doing their job (which it looks like they are) and our D is ranked highly and playing well (I think they were ranked 5th in the league last year). AND one could argue that the only reason we weren't #1 is because of the injury to Earl Thomas.

If all that is true, then wouldn't it make sense to more fully address what is holding us back, which is our OLine, rather than continue to address a position which looks like it's in good shape?

Not really, for a few reasons.

First, while Bennett and Avril are certainly still raising Cain on the field, there is the sense that they're going to stop doing so any day. They're on the wrong side of 28. Bennett looked to be losing his influence even late last year, and most of Avril's production came before December as well.

Second, we did address the OL. They weren't the flashy picks that NFL Network was shoving down everyone's throats, but they did address the OL.

Third, two of Seattle's five postseason exits under Pete Carroll have arguably resulted from a lack of pass rush. 2015 and 2016 were bad luck against quality teams; in 2010 against the Bears, we were just awful in general.

 

[Steve2222]

My point is that, if these guys are doing their job (which it looks like they are) and our D is ranked highly and playing well (I think they were ranked 5th in the league last year). AND one could argue that the only reason we weren't #1 is because of the injury to Earl Thomas.

If all that is true, then wouldn't it make sense to more fully address what is holding us back, which is our OLine, rather than continue to address a position which looks like it's in good shape?

Not really, for a few reasons.

First, while Bennett and Avril are certainly still raising Cain on the field, there is the sense that they're going to stop doing so any day. They're on the wrong side of 28. Bennett looked to be losing his influence even late last year, and most of Avril's production came before December as well.

Second, we did address the OL. They weren't the flashy picks that NFL Network was shoving down everyone's throats, but they did address the OL.

Third, two of Seattle's five postseason exits under Pete Carroll have arguably resulted from a lack of pass rush. 2015 and 2016 were bad luck against quality teams; in 2010 against the Bears, we were just awful in general.

Wtf? I did not write that post you quoted