Pick 29, 1st Round - LJ Collier, DE, Texas Christian

[Tical21]

After McDowell, I'd highly doubt that Sweat was on their board. Just can't risk wasting another high pick on a medical.
Listening to Schneider though, it's a certainty that someone between 21-28 was their target. Someone went that they didn't see and it pissed them off. Tillery perhaps? Maybe even Savage at 21? I guess it could have been Sweat.

 

[DomeHawk]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

2nd round:
Wagner
Christine Michael
Paul Richardson
Britt
Clark
Reed
McDowell
Pocic

Outside of our very first draft - where both Thomas and Okung were not derided as reaches like later years - we are still waiting for a first round player to be worth a second contract.

From the second round, Clark and Reed seem like home runs to me in any round, with Britt a 3-bagger and Richardson a solid double.

Comparing rounds one and two it's quite obvious to me why accusations of reaching stick and puzzling why anyone would pretend it's just casual fans bespelled by the Kiper big board who are complaining. Heck, maybe Kiper could have found a guy worth a second contract in the first round across the last 8 years.

Funny, everyone talks about how GOOD we are with middle to late-round picks but that is only because we are so BAD at 1st-round picks, lol.

 

[Tical21]

Pete confirmed last night that they expect LJ to play 5 technique which means they don’t view him as Clark’s replacement on the depth chart.

He's definitely not a LEO. The only one that really has any kind of skillset as of now to match that is Martin, mayyyybe Kendricks.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

My only beef is making poor acquisitions and then compensating later in the form of always trading down to grab more picks. For every incredible late round pick that we've made, we have our fair share of "busts"..

Every team has busts, and not too many coach/GM's have had more success in the mid to later rounds of drafts than Pete and John, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

So either we think WE know better, or we trust Pete and John to build another SB contender. Not sure about you, but I'll trust the two dudes who have already built a SB roster, far more than the "experts" or knuckleheads who are criticizing one pick so far on here.

 

[ivotuk]

The thing that amazes me about L.J. Collier's Pressure Stats, he wasn't even a starter. That, and unlike Bruce Irvin who the Atlanta Falcons ran right at, L.J. can play the run.


RED FLAGS - None

Collier is a hard-nosed end who played some anchor, stood up as a force defender, dropped into coverage and even saw the occasional inside pass rush rep for Texas Christian. He did it all as a rotational player, yet still managed 11.5 TFL and six sacks this season


But then there are the biased articles who want to say something negative, so leave out the part about him being a rotational player.

He doesn't really have production to make his case, either, as his senior season at TCU saw him total six sacks and 11.5 tackles for loss in what was by far his most productive season.

 

[DomeHawk]

The thing that amazes me about L.J. Collier's Pressure Stats, he wasn't even a starter. That, and unlike Bruce Irvin who the Atlanta Falcons ran right at, L.J. can play the run.


RED FLAGS - None

Collier is a hard-nosed end who played some anchor, stood up as a force defender, dropped into coverage and even saw the occasional inside pass rush rep for Texas Christian. He did it all as a rotational player, yet still managed 11.5 TFL and six sacks this season


But then there are the biased articles who want to say something negative, so leave out the part about him being a rotational player.

He doesn't really have production to make his case, either, as his senior season at TCU saw him total six sacks and 11.5 tackles for loss in what was by far his most productive season.

Red Flags none?

His combine profile, which is not a biased article, states:

Weaknesses

Only one season as full-time starter
Slow reaction time to the snap
Not a natural knee-bender
Lacks change-of-direction quickness to mirror movement and tackle
Upfield burst is dull whether standing or with a hand in the ground
Easy to find and punch when attempting to bend the corner as rusher
Inconsistent sack finisher against pocket-mobile quarterbacks
Struggle to sustain motor for secondary rush production


https://www.nfl.com/prospects/l.j.-coll ... fb95d63f5e

 

[jammerhawk]

Listen to the clip and watch the Brian Baldinger clip @ www.seahawksdraftblog.com relating to Collier and those dubious about this pick will see exactly why the team picked this player.

I'm very pleased with this pick! Listen to his interview with Brock and Salk this morning as well and you will like what you hear.
Long arms, wide wingspan, relentless physicality w/o being light in the shorts along with a desire to be a "nasty baller" every play. Lots to like!

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I guess in the big picture it's going to come down to what the team gets with the picks obtained. If the drop off, if any, from one of the defensive ends they could have had early to Collier isn't much compared to what they did with the other teams, then overall the team is better off.

I love in the video of the phone call, Collier didn't seem to realize till about the 15 second mark what was going on lol. He almost seemed irritated at the start of the call and then he did a total switch.

 

[LTH]

The thing that amazes me about L.J. Collier's Pressure Stats, he wasn't even a starter. That, and unlike Bruce Irvin who the Atlanta Falcons ran right at, L.J. can play the run.


RED FLAGS - None

Collier is a hard-nosed end who played some anchor, stood up as a force defender, dropped into coverage and even saw the occasional inside pass rush rep for Texas Christian. He did it all as a rotational player, yet still managed 11.5 TFL and six sacks this season


But then there are the biased articles who want to say something negative, so leave out the part about him being a rotational player.

He doesn't really have production to make his case, either, as his senior season at TCU saw him total six sacks and 11.5 tackles for loss in what was by far his most productive season.

The one thing that bothers me about Collier is, from what i can see, his success came from teams like Kansas state etc... but really that doesn't mean much other than will his success transfer to the NFL... It just creates that question... i like the pick because I think attitude is important and he has the desire to rip... well see!

LTH

 

[hawk45]

Of course there are different structures to 1st vs. 2nd round contracts, but I prefer to look at # of the pick, rather than round (which by-and-large is just a construct for pick-process, not a definition of player quality or success predictor). We have often taken lower 1st round picks because of trading down, and some higher 2nd round picks, so they are fairly close in value. Overstating the round picked can make seem like round is the problem.

Second, the sample size is quite small here. If we had 50 players in 1st and 2nd round to compare, we might have better data. At this point, we have a weak trend, at most, it seems to me. Our onboard statisticians can perhaps clarify or correct this assessment.

If players like Irvin get paid more by other teams than we're willing to shell out for 2nd contracts, that means they played well for us. I would call that a successful pick.

I expect Collier to be a solid contributor, and expect him to get a 2nd contract here because of the position's importance to today's league.

So AdHawk, quite right that the first rounders are a small sample size, but would you agree that over the past 8 years our ceiling for first round head-scratcher picks has been "solid starter?" Again, I exclude Okung/Earl because those picks were not thought of as reaches.

And would you agree that our ceiling for 2nd round picks Clark/Reed/Britt has been pro-bowl to near-elite in Clark? For that matter, our ceiling in lower rounds down to UDFA (Baldwin) has been higher than our ceiling for first rounders.

I think maybe they themselves feel that they struggle to get first round value and that's why they get out of the round so often. Last year and this year they stayed in because of dire need at RB and DL respectively, and so the team circumstances were why they didn't trade out and try to find their RB or DL later. I'm not certain sacrificing draft value in the cap era is a winning strategy, but it's also true that the Penny and Collier may prove to be impact players.

In particular, if Penny doesn't end up a solid RB1 who can come in and completely replace Carson's output in a game if need be, we lit that pick on fire. With Collier, all teams struggle to identify the magic bean on the DL and it was pick 29, so if he's a 5-10 sack guy to throw in with Reed adding 10 sacks and FA, I won't moan.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

People keep bringing up Penny as an example of a bad pick..........but that's hindsight dishonesty.

At the time of the draft last year Carson was coming off a major leg injury, and we had just hired Schotty to come in and revamp the entire offensive scheme into what Pete wanted, which was what we saw last year, nasty ball control run heavy offense.

THAT'S why we drafted Penny, at the time of the draft we had no #1 RB that was healthy and able to carry the load. So I can't fault the Penny pick. If that's your scheme and philosophy, you have to get your RB, and Penny fit what we were trying to do well.

Just so happened Carson got healthy and balled out during camp and took the #1 RB job. But to continue to harp on the Penny pick is being completely hindsight dishonest with the discussion.

 

[knownone]

Pete confirmed last night that they expect LJ to play 5 technique which means they don’t view him as Clark’s replacement on the depth chart.

He's definitely not a LEO. The only one that really has any kind of skillset as of now to match that is Martin, mayyyybe Kendricks.

Clark wasn't a LEO he played more of a traditional 43 end. So if we're talking about replacing him the best fit on the roster is Rasheem Green.

 

[pmedic920]

Blah Blah Blah.

GoFrogs
GoHawks.

 

[chrispy]

They should make him wear tiny shoulder pads for rookie hazing. Then everyone would stop comparing to Clark....

 

[ivotuk]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

All but Penny and Ifedi got a 2nd contract (because they are still on their 1st).

Carpenter and Irvin (probably the foundation of your concern) had options declined but were solid starters in their time with the team before signing bigger contracts elsewhere.

everyone of those players is still under contract with an NFL team, consistent starters for most of their careers. Nothing wrong with any of those picks (Penny TBD)

And if Chris Carson would have gotten hurt last year, we'd probably be singing a completely different song about Penny.

People want to compare Rashad to other first round backs, but those other backs didn't have a Chris Carson pounding the hell out of opposing defenses. Apples to Oranges

Those Reverse Runs Rashad Penny made are just a hint at what he is capable of. It's the Rare Running Back that can do that and not lose yards.

 

[toffee]

People keep bringing up Penny as an example of a bad pick..........but that's hindsight dishonesty.

At the time of the draft last year Carson was coming off a major leg injury, and we had just hired Schotty to come in and revamp the entire offensive scheme into what Pete wanted, which was what we saw last year, nasty ball control run heavy offense.

THAT'S why we drafted Penny, at the time of the draft we had no #1 RB that was healthy and able to carry the load. So I can't fault the Penny pick. If that's your scheme and philosophy, you have to get your RB, and Penny fit what we were trying to do well.

Just so happened Carson got healthy and balled out during camp and took the #1 RB job. But to continue to harp on the Penny pick is being completely hindsight dishonest with the discussion.

Penny didn't rock as we expected, but Penny also didn't embarrass. I felt like it's mental, he allowed himself to gain lots of weight, and he didn't have the punish whoever try to stop me mentality when going straight up the middle of defense. Hoping that he will report to camp in top shape and learn from Carson.

 

[AgentDib]

Outside of our very first draft - where both Thomas and Okung were not derided as reaches like later years - we are still waiting for a first round player to be worth a second contract.

It's worth noting that you are comparing a year in which we had two top picks with subsequent years in which we were either picking at the end of the round or not at all. Mock boards diverge further from the actual team boards as the draft proceeds.

Comparing rounds one and two it's quite obvious to me why accusations of reaching stick and puzzling why anyone would pretend it's just casual fans bespelled by the Kiper big board who are complaining.

You can call them bad picks if you want, but I'm aware that at least Irvin, Carpenter and Penny were later indicated to have been on other team's boards around where we had them. Whether you believe that or not is besides the point, which is that team boards are very closely held private information. I'm sure the Hawks get other team boards wrong too, but second guessing where teams have players on their boards based on public boards is a silly exercise.

 

[Jville]

Great Character and Country Strong .......... [tweet]https://twitter.com/KTXSSports/status/1121261070239326209[/tweet]

 

[sutz]

I keep reading about Collier's "slow first step." Wouldn't that be a good thing after the offsides penalty machine that was Michael Bennett?

:twisted:

:stirthepot:

 

[ivotuk]

Post-Draft Analysis

Defensive end was a need before the Seahawks traded Frank Clark to the Chiefs, and bolstering the run defense was critical. The Seahawks allowed 4.95 yards per rush last season, which ranked 30th in the NFL and was the most in franchise history.

Collier is an excellent run defender who should step into a starting role as a rookie. -- Steve Muench

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/rounds/_/round/1