Hi everyone, this is my first post here
akseahawkfan":3ulp98vx said:
A lot faster because he had a better starting point. Even with that advantage, Carroll has only had two wining seasons here, including this one. Carroll has converted me, I didn't like him being hired originally. But seriously if you're going to crown Carroll as the best Seahawks Coach let's see what he does over a ten year period to make it comparable with Holmgren.
I respectfully disagree on Pete Carroll "had a better starting point".
Holmgren's first four seasons were 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002.
Carroll's first four seasons were: 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013
Two seasons prior to Mike Holmgren taking over, the Seahawks' record under Dennis Erickson's
1997: 8-8
1998: 8-8
Two seasons prior to Pete Carroll taking over, the Seahawks' record under Mike Holmgren's and Jim Mora's were:
2008: 4-12
2009: 5-11
You just can't say that Carroll had better starting point or advantage over Holmgren. I would argue that Carroll inherited a much bigger mess than Holmgren did. Due to circumstances, I didn't have any exposure to football at the time so I don't know what kind of team, personnel wise, the Seahawks were in 1997 and 1998. But when Pete Carroll took over in 2010 the Seahawks were an aged team on a downward spiral.
The Seahawks' record under Holmgren's first four seasons are:
1999: 9-7. Finished 1st place in the division but lost at home in the playoffs to Dan Marino and the Dolphins.
2000: 6-10. Finished 4th place, no playoffs.
2001: 9-7. Finished 2nd place, narrowly missed the playoffs.
2002: 7-9. Finished 2nd place, no playoffs.
So in Holmgren's first four years, he complied a 31-33 regular season record and 0-1 playoffs record with 1 divisional crown.
The Seahawks' record under Carroll's first four seasons are:
2010: 7-9. Finished 1st place in the division, 1-1 in the playoffs.
2011: 7-9. Finished 3rd place in the division.
2012: 11-5. Finished 2nd place in the division, 1-1 in the playoffs.
2013: 13-3. Finished 1st place in the division, playoffs record TBD.
So in Carroll's first four years, he compiled a 38-26 regular season record, 2 divisional crowns, 3 playoffs appearances and 3 playoffs wins so far. Not only Carroll rebuilds much faster than Holmgren, he has more playoffs appearances, better regular season AND playoffs records, too.
IMHO, while Mike Holmgren can build the Seahawks' offense, the defense leaves a lot to be desired. I remember those days where the Seahawks had the tendency to have the opposing teams mount 4th quarter comback, not the Russell Wilson era where the Seahawks are the comeback kids. While Holmgren's a fine coach, and NFL Hall of Fame worthy in my opinion, he's not fit to be in the front office making personnel decisions. Pete Carroll, on the other hand, excels in both roles.
Holmgren found the Seahawks franchise QB in Matt Hasselbeck in his third season (2001) but Matt Hasselbeck struggled his first two years. Not until his third year (2003) that he cements his position. Like Holmgren, Carroll found his franchise QB in Russell Wilson in his third year. But unlike Matt Hasselbeck, Russell Wilson is a probowl QB in his first two seasons. Awesome to the 12th power!
While I still love Mike Holmgren and greatly appreciate what he had done for the Seahawks, the fan base and the Seattle community in general, I fully believe that in time Pete Carroll will be the best head coach the Seahawks ever had. So far, within the same time frame, Pete Carroll has done a much better job. While Holmgren's teams are known for being finesse and disciplined, they didn't carry as much intimidation as Carroll's teams. Carroll's Seahawks of the last 2 years actually put fear into their opponents while Holmgren's teams, if my memory serves me correctly, never really did.