Paul Richardson....

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Sonic is a heel digger. Any poster that witnessed the Tony Stewart thread would know that it is pointless to argue with him. Even when his position is disproven he will not relent.

Good luck disproving my point with his 212 receiving yards.

My only point was that he has yet to meet expectations as a 2nd round pick in a position of need. Britt falls in that category too.

Doesn't mean these guys won't figure it out sooner or later -- both are improving.

I didn't need you to help solidify my point, but thank you for having my back on this one.

 

[pehawk]

Coming back to a ball like that is the toughest catch to make, IMO. Especially when it's a short rocket like Russ fired at him and THE BEST DB EVAR PP21 is covering. He caught it right in front of Kam and Pete, who were both praising him immediately.

http://gfycat.com/AcidicGlassIcelandicsheepdog

Look how he catches the ball on this play. Notice what he immediately does; cradle the ball over all else. That tells me he knows he MUST earn time and any nonsense with the ball will immediately relegate him to the bench. He's not even relying on his athletic ability, he's trying incredibly hard to do exactly what the coaches are saying. He's thinking not reacting.

I like that because it shows desire. But I also like it because once the NFL game becomes muscle memory Prich will be that Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Emmanuel Sanders.

 

[SonicHawk]

Sonic is a heel digger. Any poster that witnessed the Tony Stewart thread would know that it is pointless to argue with him. Even when his position is disproven he will not relent.

Good luck disproving my point with his 212 receiving yards.

My only point was that he has yet to meet expectations as a 2nd round pick in a position of need. Britt falls in that category too.

Doesn't mean these guys won't figure it out sooner or later -- both are improving.

I didn't need you to help solidify my point, but thank you for having my back on this one.

Your argument is as solid as your name.

 

[SonicHawk]

ahhhh more heel digging I can certainly see why you want to separate Richardson from Tate in this debate. Siiiink goes your argument. By the way, why was this "elite" NFL route runner with undeniable separation so unproductive in his first two years? Nearly cut by year two??? Your answer to that will be so illuminating

Basically, Richardson has great hands, and has elite speed. Both he and Tate put up "stats" in college

Tate may be better at route running (debatable) has equal hands and less speed but has a WAY higher ceiling??

L-O-L. Those heels are a diggin!!!

Richardson has not proven any type of eliteness with his hands. In fact that was a significant issue with him in college, his hands were never elite -- they were downright average.

Golden Tate's career path has nothing to do with Paul Richardson, his abilities are significantly better (except for speed), if you argue this I assume you've never watched either of them play before.

Until Paul Richardson proves it on the field on a consistent basis and does more than a career high of 50 yards in a game and 212 career yards I can talk as much crap or crap on him as much as I want.\

Let's just see him do this a few more times.

 

[olyfan63]

The Mike Wallace comparison seems like a good one. A faster Mike Wallace.
Actually I don't know Wallace's speed, but it's hard to top PRich's speed.

 

[pehawk]

I read the whole thing about Richardson dropping balls or having bad hands in college, was just a myth. There's a pretty solid analyst I speak to on twitter, who's from Colorado, he said the drops thing isn't true. And dude isn't a Richardson believer.

The plan wasn't even for Richardson to play this year, really. The plan was Percy. That needs to be considered when analyzing his stats.

FWIW...

 

[SonicHawk]

I read the whole thing about Richardson dropping balls or having bad hands in college, was just a myth. There's a pretty solid analyst I speak to on twitter, who's from Colorado, he said the drops thing isn't true. And dude isn't a Richardson believer.

The plan wasn't even for Richardson to play this year, really. The plan was Percy. That needs to be considered when analyzing his stats.

FWIW...

Harvin and Richardson do not play the same roles.

 

[olyfan63]

Tate was a steal in the late 2nd round. NFL route-runner from day one, always got separation without elite speed or quickness, undeniable hands, put up stats at ND.
<snip>

That's just silly and wrong and you should come up with better if you're trying to make any legitimate point. Tate took nearly 2 full years to become an NFL-level route runner not to mention NFL-level student of the game.

Tate spent most of his first two hard-headed years trying to rely on athletic ability plus trying to rehab his image from the Top Pot donuts "theft" incident. Sure, in college his athletic ability was enough to smoke college DBs and put up stats.

Loved his game by the time he left, especially his amazing YAC runs, and pretty much expected how he's lighting it up for Detroit; he's exceeding expectations there by lighting it up even while Megatron is out. Like others said, it shows the quality of coaching and development he got here. Just don't try to pass off his two-year learning curve as if he came from ND and immediately started lighting it up in the NFL. He didn't.

Was Tate a late 2nd round steal? Decent value, yes, steal no. We got two good years out of Tate then lost him in free agency. Not sure what comp pick we got (anyone know offhand) but Tate was neither a steal nor a bust. For reference, steal=Russell Wilson, steal=Richard Sherman, steal=Kam Chancellor, steal=Doug Baldwin (UDFA), steal=Alvin Bailey (UDFA), steal=KJ Wright, steal=Byron Maxwell. Wilson was probably the steal of the century, with Sherman close behind. (BWags could arguably be on this list too)

 

[Timmahawk]

ahhhh more heel digging I can certainly see why you want to separate Richardson from Tate in this debate. Siiiink goes your argument. By the way, why was this "elite" NFL route runner with undeniable separation so unproductive in his first two years? Nearly cut by year two??? Your answer to that will be so illuminating

Basically, Richardson has great hands, and has elite speed. Both he and Tate put up "stats" in college

Tate may be better at route running (debatable) has equal hands and less speed but has a WAY higher ceiling??

L-O-L. Those heels are a diggin!!!

Richardson has not proven any type of eliteness with his hands. In fact that was a significant issue with him in college, his hands were never elite -- they were downright average.

Golden Tate's career path has nothing to do with Paul Richardson, his abilities are significantly better (except for speed), if you argue this I assume you've never watched either of them play before.

Until Paul Richardson proves it on the field on a consistent basis and does more than a career high of 50 yards in a game and 212 career yards I can talk as much crap or crap on him as much as I want.\

Let's just see him do this a few more times.

Did you bash Tate this much after his first year of 200 yds 0 TDs?

Oh wait, he was an elite route runner with elite hands, that's why he killed it in his 2nd year...

 

[Timmahawk]

Also, that one highlight above is bigger than anything Tate did his first year lol

 

[Tical21]

I LOVE me some Golden Tate. Always have. High on him from day 1. But route runner? Separation? He still doesn't get separation.

 

[Smellyman]

Coming back to a ball like that is the toughest catch to make, IMO. Especially when it's a short rocket like Russ fired at him and THE BEST DB EVAR PP21 is covering. He caught it right in front of Kam and Pete, who were both praising him immediately.

http://gfycat.com/AcidicGlassIcelandicsheepdog

Caught for a 12 yard gain, ref gave him 8...........

 

[pehawk]

Im not sure where this route running knock is coming from. I see a very polished route runner, his lack of separation has a lot to do with the route trees. The DBs know he's only going to run, what, one of 3 or 4 routes?

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Okay, first off, if we just went by quantity of big plays, instead of ratio, Lockette would have more than Richardson and Harvin combined and with one fourth as many targets.

So no, I don't buy that the quantity alone tells us more. The ratio of big plays to targets tells us more.

Now about Tate.

WTF you smoking Tate was an elite route runner? Dude couldn't run a route for the life of him. Constantly batting down passes to Rice because he was in the wrong place trying to catch the ball that wasn't to him. Until year three, he was on the fence as far as making this team. His only claim to fame was being able to break tackles. He was labeled a running back kind of WR. Get him the ball in an open field and he'd make things happen. Total YAC guy that needed to learn everything else.

Sad part is, once he did, we lost him.

You can't use Tate to compare where Richardson is now. Two totally different guys altogether. Richardson is good at his routes, he's learning how to make his break instead. once he learns some moves to get past the defender at the snap, lookout! That's what's holding him back.

 

[olyfan63]

I'm 100% convinced that they drafted him to hedge against the Harvin problems. They saw an opportunity to grab someone they could mold and had some of the same characteristics and Percy was already having issues with the team.

I just think Pete and JS saw getting rid of Harvin as a real possibility before the season even started. They had to have planned a contingency for it and when it became obvious and necessary, they executed a well thought out plan. That's what makes them so special as a FO. What other team would have done that? Kicked a player like that to the curb without care for the media backlash or questioning? They knew addition by subtraction was the best plan for the team.

I suspect you are right on the money with that one. When Percy got his doctor saying he needed surgery now... plus Pete's obvious frustration in last year's press conferences on "when will Harvin be able to go" questions. I figure they started to be aware of Harvin's mental health issues last year (I strongly suspect Borderline Personality disorder with a side helping of Antisocial PD) and knew it was going to be a 50-50 or worse proposition that Harvin would come around and be a net positive for the team.

I don't think it was until this season that PC/JS became fully aware of a specific, professional diagnosis for Harvin's issues. I would absolutely expect they called in trained professionals this Fall to review the situation. I believe once PC/JS knew what the real issue was, from the experts, and what the prognosis for improvement was, they knew they had to pull the plug immediately, and to their credit, they did. Carroll knew that Harvin's presence would undermine the whole locker room and team culture dynamic he has worked so hard to build and that has been so crucial to the team's success. (The prognosis is very bad for BPD; sufferers have a "reputation" in the psych community for simply not "getting better" or changing until their 30's and 40's)

I am sure the Jets FO & Coach was told going in, exactly what Harvin's issue was. Harvin will do fine for NYJ for the rest of the year; he will be on his best behavior for a honeymoon period. That's how they roll. Sucker you in initially. THEN change the rules once they think they "have" you.

I fully expect Harvin to be out of the league in a year or two and then basically follow in a lot of Vince Young's footsteps in terms of personal life turmoil. For a preview see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/1 ... 94884.html Vince Young, former Titan's QB, shows nearly all the signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is like a fraternal twin of BPD, two peas in a pod, including the "doesn't get better" prognosis. Even Jeff Fisher got tired of Young's act. Once NFL teams knew Young's diagnosis and issues, several tried him out, but they quickly bailed on him. Harvin wears out his welcome too. I mean, really, just why was Minnesota so willing to trade him?

Anyway, based on the chronology of the Harvin fiasco, Pete and John probably were hedging their bets they'd have to write off Percy Harvin. It probably was *one* factor in the Richardson pick. I think they also simply liked Richardson at that spot on the board and thought he'd be a good long-term fit and value with the team, would develop well, and give them a *real* deep threat, since Harvin isn't a deep threat.

 

[Scottemojo]

I think Richard's creation of some space will get a lot better when he learns to throttle his speed. Right now he looks to me like a stop/go guy.

 

[pehawk]

I read the whole thing about Richardson dropping balls or having bad hands in college, was just a myth. There's a pretty solid analyst I speak to on twitter, who's from Colorado, he said the drops thing isn't true. And dude isn't a Richardson believer.

The plan wasn't even for Richardson to play this year, really. The plan was Percy. That needs to be considered when analyzing his stats.

FWIW...

Harvin and Richardson do not play the same roles.

No they do not...but Percy's absence scrapped the offense installed at TC.

 

[Seanhawk]

Coming back to a ball like that is the toughest catch to make, IMO. Especially when it's a short rocket like Russ fired at him and THE BEST DB EVAR PP21 is covering. He caught it right in front of Kam and Pete, who were both praising him immediately.

http://gfycat.com/AcidicGlassIcelandicsheepdog

Caught for a 12 yard gain, ref gave him 8...........

It isn't a catch until both feet come down. The spot was correct.

 

[Hawkpower]

ahhhh more heel digging I can certainly see why you want to separate Richardson from Tate in this debate. Siiiink goes your argument. By the way, why was this "elite" NFL route runner with undeniable separation so unproductive in his first two years? Nearly cut by year two??? Your answer to that will be so illuminating

Basically, Richardson has great hands, and has elite speed. Both he and Tate put up "stats" in college

Tate may be better at route running (debatable) has equal hands and less speed but has a WAY higher ceiling??

L-O-L. Those heels are a diggin!!!

Richardson has not proven any type of eliteness with his hands. In fact that was a significant issue with him in college, his hands were never elite -- they were downright average.

Golden Tate's career path has nothing to do with Paul Richardson, his abilities are significantly better (except for speed), if you argue this I assume you've never watched either of them play before.

Until Paul Richardson proves it on the field on a consistent basis and does more than a career high of 50 yards in a game and 212 career yards I can talk as much crap or crap on him as much as I want.\

Let's just see him do this a few more times.

So......if your man Tate is sooooo much better than Richardson (in every category other than speed as you say) why were his first two years nearly identical, if not worse than PRich's to date?

You've conveniently been dodging that question. We know why.

 

[olyfan63]

I read the whole thing about Richardson dropping balls or having bad hands in college, was just a myth. There's a pretty solid analyst I speak to on twitter, who's from Colorado, he said the drops thing isn't true. And dude isn't a Richardson believer.

The plan wasn't even for Richardson to play this year, really. The plan was Percy. That needs to be considered when analyzing his stats.

FWIW...

Harvin and Richardson do not play the same roles.

No they do not...but Percy's absence scrapped the offense installed at TC.

And thank God for that.

Richardson (in his more developed form) will provide a type of threat the Seahawks offense didn't have, which is similar to the impact Harvin has, in that defenses must account for him. It's a different type of threat, and honestly Harvin, on most any-given-play, is *more* threatening to a defense, when used to maximum effect.

Bevell tried to use Harvin to maximum effect, at Pete's direction. However, the downside was that it essentially perverted the bread and butter offense, and based it on an oft-injured, unreliable personality. PRich's type of threat doesn't require any real change to the offense Pete wants to run, and the absence of any one part doesn't change the whole character of the offense. Even now, already, PRich > Harvin, for this team. Thank God we dumped Harvin.

All that said, I sure do miss the threat Golden Tate brought, and his Run After Catch was more consistent and exciting than Harvin's. PRich doesn't seem like much of a tackle-breaker.