Offensive coordinator candidates for 2024

[Ozzy]

It is very hard to know the actual ins and outs of the team being just fans. We don’t hear what they discuss throughout the week nor can we listen to their headsets in game. I think collectively the offense overall has issues that can’t point to a single reason. OL has had stretches of terrible play, Geno has had some stinkers, defense puts the offense in a rough spot early, etc. What I will say is the issues of imbalance, structure of play design by the second quarter, complete lack of TE usage, and a general lack of identity once the opening script ends points to issues with Waldron. And to Pete for allowing this to continue occurring, even if he is mostly hands off with the offense in game.

As an outside observer, his pre-game design is terrific. Their opening scripts are crisp, balanced, get Geno comfortable with some pocket movement, and utilize all areas of the field. They focus a lot on TE motion, stretch the deep middle to open underneath, and pound the ball. Then as we see every week, defense adjusts based on how we start and Waldron cannot adapt. Leads to a lot of third and long, deep ball nonsense and many punts. It very well may be his best role in the NFL is what he was doing for McVay and the Rams, who was VERY complimentary of his role in their group staff to structure gameplans week to week. His skill set may be best used as planning and design, less adaptability and countering which is critical for an OC.

Is it possible there are check downs built in that Geno isn't hitting? That's how I see it anyway. Very few plays have everyone just running 15+ yard route progressions. We usually have a slant or two, someone in the flat etc. I just don't think geno is seeing them a lot of the time. There are also a lot of "choice"calls at the line where Geno picks a play based on what the defense is showing and I'm guessing they are respecting our run game more and trying to force Geno into throwing deep with their looks.

A long winded way to say its highly unlikely Waldron is dialing up long bombs every play and it probably has much more to do with execution than we think.

 

[Mad Dog]

Everyone wanted Bevell fired, the offense didn’t improve. Everyone wanted Schotty fired, the offense didn’t improve. Everyone wants Waldron fired….

The definition of insanity…

Pete is clearly the problem. He’s been through a number of DCs and OCs over the last decade and we are no nearer the SB than 2015.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Everyone wanted Bevell fired, the offense didn’t improve. Everyone wanted Schotty fired, the offense didn’t improve. Everyone wants Waldron fired….

The definition of insanity…

Pete is clearly the problem. He’s been through a number of DCs and OCs over the last decade and we are no nearer the SB than 2015.

The offense IMMEDIATELY improved under Schottenheimer after firing Bevell. Russell Wilson proceeded to have a career year on par with 2015 and they led the league in rushing immediately. #1.

They were also a great rushing team in 2019, and were a c-hair from making the NFC Championship game that year.

That is some insane revisionism, man.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Everyone wanted Bevell fired, the offense didn’t improve. Everyone wanted Schotty fired, the offense didn’t improve. Everyone wants Waldron fired….

The definition of insanity…

Pete is clearly the problem. He’s been through a number of DCs and OCs over the last decade and we are no nearer the SB than 2015.

This 100%. Yeah, go grab another OC and watch the same exact thing unfold with him as it did with the previous ones. I've said it for years that it doesn't matter who the coordinators are, nothing will change.

At least Shotty fought against it. He got canned for his troubles of course, but he's better off now anyways.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This 100%. Yeah, go grab another OC and watch the same exact thing unfold with him as it did with the previous ones. I've said it for years that it doesn't matter who the coordinators are, nothing will change.

At least Shotty fought against it. He got canned for his troubles of course, but he's better off now anyways.

Reducing every offensive coordinators tenure here into "uh it's the same thing" is so incredibly obtuse that I don't even know how to approach it.

It's an easy answer. It doesn't check out. It does not check out even slightly if you take a cursory look under the surface.

The only constant is that we're upset they haven't won a Super Bowl again. That's about it.

 

[Optimus25]

Because all teams now run some version of the two high shell defensive scheme where they pack the box with nine defenders taking away most of the easy curls and outs like you're talking about.

So how do you create that space? By running the ball successfully which opens up play action forcing the LB's and safeties to take those initial steps downhill in order to stop the run...............which now opens up the intermediary zones for said RB's, WR's and TE's with easy curls and outs.

What did we do successfully in the 1st half before Walker went out? We ran the ball. Thus long successful drives.

What didn't we do for almost a full three quarters after that? Run the ball. Thus seven straight three and outs.


The end.

Ok cool. Go look at the game losing zach charbonnet run. Tyler lockett has a 12 yard cushion and Geno has no mental programming to just toss him the ball like it’s sandlot, he HAS to come up with the right play instead. That’s my point. We can’t just go for the simplest most high percentage play, it’s always some drop back play action or second level attack.

You don’t need to create space for DK metcalf to have a play on the ball. He’s always open.

Oh also on the play Geno gets hurt Tyler has a 15 yard cushion. So not sure of your narrative.

 

[SonicHawk]

Is it possible there are check downs built in that Geno isn't hitting? That's how I see it anyway. Very few plays have everyone just running 15+ yard route progressions. We usually have a slant or two, someone in the flat etc. I just don't think geno is seeing them a lot of the time. There are also a lot of "choice"calls at the line where Geno picks a play based on what the defense is showing and I'm guessing they are respecting our run game more and trying to force Geno into throwing deep with their looks.

A long winded way to say its highly unlikely Waldron is dialing up long bombs every play and it probably has much more to do with execution than we think.

It's pretty noticeable that Geno's first reads and progressions do not include check downs. This is a play design. Geno's pocket collapses relatively quick (for all the "he holds the ball") he gets pressured quickly.

We even saw multiple plays where Geno had no options, even if he had all the time in the world that were shorter than 15 yards. And when we do pass short, it's behind the LOS. The Seahawks clearly don't have many plays where the underneath is the primary target. DK-post, with Lockett sitting in the flat for zone, or diving across in man. It should be obvious that this would be like the #1 play call. Check if DK is in man and if the safety bites to the middle, if not, check down to Lockett or a TE sitting in the flat.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Reducing every offensive coordinators tenure here into "uh it's the same thing" is so incredibly obtuse that I don't even know how to approach it.

It's an easy answer. It doesn't check out. It does not check out even slightly if you take a cursory look under the surface.

The only constant is that we're upset they haven't won a Super Bowl again. That's about it.

Agreed. KJ Wright, an actual former Seahawks player from the SB 48 team and a long time player under Carroll also agrees it's on Shane.

But we have obtuse .net narcissists that disagree.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Reducing every offensive coordinators tenure here into "uh it's the same thing" is so incredibly obtuse that I don't even know how to approach it.

It's an easy answer. It doesn't check out. It does not check out even slightly if you take a cursory look under the surface.

The only constant is that we're upset they haven't won a Super Bowl again. That's about it.

How many OC's do other coaches usually go through on average that arent being poached for head coaching gigs? Just curious. You can break down the nuances if need be, but the offense always has the same issues no matter who lines up. Inconsistent for quarters on end, stagnant, and easy to defend. Its Petes philosophy that gets in the way, not the coordinators.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Agreed. KJ Wright, an actual former Seahawks player from the SB 48 team and a long time player under Carroll also agrees it's on Shane.

But we have obtuse .net narcissists that disagree.

If only KJ would go back and watch all the games from the time Pete became coach and review those too. Wonder if he would blame the other OC's also. Many, many opposing coaches and pundits for years have said Seattles offense and defense were easy to read.

 

[CallMeADawg]

If only KJ would go back and watch all the games from the time Pete became coach and review those too. Wonder if he would blame the other OC's too.

If you think I'm listening to you over an actual player you are smoking something.

 

[pittpnthrs]

If you think I'm listening to you over an actual player you are smoking something.

I don't expect you to. You'll just have to find out the hard way like many others around here.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I don't expect you to. You'll just have to find out the hard way like many others around here.

I'll stick with KJ. Thanks though.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'll stick with KJ. Thanks though.

Cool. I'll meet you back here next season about the same exact thing if Seattle grabs yet another OC in Pete's tenure.

 

[Double Tribble]

We also need a dual threat qb who can stretch and tilt the field with his legs. At least some of the time. That's not Geno's game, and it's a pity, because defenses don't fear him at all in that regard, and it makes us very one dimensional as a result. I miss the read option days in the first few years of Russ' career. That was some fun football to watch.

 

[GemCity]

Like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Hahahaha.

Cable, Bevell, Schotty, Waldon, Richard, Norton, Hurtt.

At a certain point, either the coach is incapable of hiring quality coaches to run his units, or he is the problem.

This is how it is supposed to go...

The good coach hires a coordinator, he then develops and thrives under the coach, and then becomes a hot commodity around the league.

Pete instead hires guys who cannot challenge him, and once the 'S' hits the fan, they become the sacrificial lamb.

Top flight OCs aren't coming to be under Pete's thumb. He would have to surrender fully the offense over to the incoming OC. Which he will never do. So you're left with stooges. A new stooge calling plays doesn't fix this team.

Pete is on the record. Once at USC, he took control of the offense, and he said he's never giving it back. The OC is allowed to add to what Pete is doing, but they are a supplement, nothing more.

Here's the better plan. Hire a new HC who is currently a dominant OC in the league. Draft a QB and develop him w/said dominant OC that is now your HC. Fix'd.

I’ve been off the fire Pete train for awhile. I truly do think he’s one of the best.

Like the OP and others in this thread, I too blame Waldron.

BUT…at what point does it change? There’s a lot of truth in what Fade posted here.

I’ve enjoyed being one of the “winningest” teams for the past decade, but this same old song and dance is getting old.

Our roster, on paper, should compete with anyone. If we were terrible across the board, so be it…if you’ve been a fan of this team longer that 12-13 years, you’ve been there. But Sheeshus H….

Trying not to be negative…this loss was rough.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I’ve been off the fire Pete train for awhile. I truly do think he’s one of the best.

Like the OP and others in this thread, I too blame Waldron.

BUT…at what point does it change? There’s a lot of truth in what Fade posted here.

I’ve enjoyed being one of the “winningest” teams for the past decade, but this same old song and dance is getting old.

Our roster, on paper, should compete with anyone. If we were terrible across the board, so be it…if you’ve been a fan of this team longer that 12-13 years, you’ve been there. But Sheeshus H….

Trying not to be negative…just incredibly disappointed.

KJ Wright says Pete does not call plays. A wanna be rapper on the Internet says he does.

Who do you believe?

 

[GemCity]

We also need a dual threat qb who can stretch and tilt the field with his legs. At least some of the time. That's not Geno's game, and it's a pity, because defenses don't fear him at all in that regard, and it makes us very one dimensional as a result. I miss the read option days in the first few years of Russ' career. That was some fun football to watch.

But how much of the offensive trouble is truly on Geno?

I get what you’re saying. I wanted us to nab AR. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we drafted the way we did…Spoon is my favorite Seahawk and I know JSN is going to be a force. But I think my line of thinking was wrong…and will be as long as we have Geno.

When Geno is on, he’s a top 10 QB…maybe higher. His leadership is truly underrated.

Is his subpar performance because of a fading skill set or is Waldron to blame?

Whenever you have a team that can move the ball down the field…maybe be in the middle of the pack offensively….but are at the bad end of the spectrum red zone wise….thats coaching/playcalling.

Geno can get it done. I fear he’s going to be the scapegoat in all of this somehow.

There’s a strong argument for having a QB like Purdy…making peanuts…so you can build your roster out fully.

But there’s no way in hell we can get a veteran of Geno’s stature for what he’s costing us.

Waldron needs to go first. If Geno shits the bed after that, even considering a new OC, fine….

 

[GemCity]

KJ Wright says Pete does not call plays. A wanna be rapper on the Internet says he does.

Who do you believe?

Definitely KJ!

 

[Maelstrom787]

I’ve been off the fire Pete train for awhile. I truly do think he’s one of the best.

Like the OP and others in this thread, I too blame Waldron.

BUT…at what point does it change? There’s a lot of truth in what Fade posted here.

I’ve enjoyed being one of the “winningest” teams for the past decade, but this same old song and dance is getting old.

Our roster, on paper, should compete with anyone. If we were terrible across the board, so be it…if you’ve been a fan of this team longer that 12-13 years, you’ve been there. But Sheeshus H….

Trying not to be negative…this loss was rough.

It was a uniquely challenging loss because it should've been a win even with the difficulties they experienced in the middle phases of the game. You have the emotional ups and downs of big injuries, the backup dashing hopes that he might light a spark, and then you resign yourself to the loss until McVay completely BOTCHES the end sequence. And then you go up up up emotionally because Geno drives 'em down, and then you lose again when the field goal drifts.

The hardest losses are the ones that keep giving you hope after taking it away.