O-Line talk is "lazy narrative"

[SoulfishHawk]

Let's see what they do in the draft before full on pitchforks?

 

[IndyHawk]

“We’ve made our biggest mistakes when we’ve, you know, pushed players up a board for need — rob Peter to pay Paul — for offensive lines,” Schneider said at the combine in Indianapolis two months ago.

Um. First of all, when the **** did you DO that?

Second of all, this is the stupidest quote that I've heard out of JS's mouth yet.

I'm hoping that the new Offensive Coordinator, and schemes, and balanced running attack, and possibly fullback, and jacked defense are going to mask the problem.

But if we have a 51% year, and we miss the playoffs again, and it's on the Oline. JS needs to be fired.

I've said earlier this offseason that he needs to be fired. I had a small moment when he said something that sounded intelligent about the situation about a month ago. But there's no excuse for this kind of bullheadedness. We just fired the last OC for the SAME AMOUNT of denial and bullheadedness.

FFS. Fix it.

The alleged drinking does him no good.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Getting to the point where it's maybe time for him to bounce. Why? So I don't have here the 24/7 whining about the guy.
Has he made some mistakes? Absolutely. But he's also done some pretty good things.

 

[SPOHAWK]

It is lazy...We know we know...ol Blah blah blah...we have more needs OL is a big one....NOT the only one!

 

[Seahawker]

 

[glenwo2]

Well, I guess I'll say this. I want the oline fixed as much as anyone, and I agree that it's been far too long since it's been good. Its been hamstringing us.
Here is the hard part about a fast Oline fix. Oline players tend to take 2-3 years to mature. The far majority of talented oline players don't come in and look good right away, they struggle like Haynes, Owlu, and Bradford have. Do we just throw in the towl on those guys? If you watch their college tape and put them in this draft they would go about the same place in the draft. They are talented, and we hope they take a step.

So if we draft 3 oline players at the top of the draft and let them start, our oline will most likely play worse. It will not be a quick fix.

So the question is, do they have to take OLine at 18? They don't have to, and I hope they don't. There is a ton of quality inside oline prospects this draft, so we don't need to overdraft for Oline need. It's a better value to draft one or two in the 2nd/3rd as the quality of that player is close to Zabel, or Booker. Granted if they did choose to draft Oline in the 1st I would be on board because it would mean they love that guy.

But I would be just fine with nearly any other position at 18. BPA

This is the most logical approach.

Pick a blue-chipper (hopefully a skill player) at #18 and THEN focus on getting an OL'er at 50 or 52 (or even both)....

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Still gonna' wait to see what they do in the draft before I bust out the pitchforks.

 

[GemCity]

Well said

Well, I guess I'll say this. I want the oline fixed as much as anyone, and I agree that it's been far too long since it's been good. Its been hamstringing us.
Here is the hard part about a fast Oline fix. Oline players tend to take 2-3 years to mature. The far majority of talented oline players don't come in and look good right away, they struggle like Haynes, Owlu, and Bradford have. Do we just throw in the towl on those guys? If you watch their college tape and put them in this draft they would go about the same place in the draft. They are talented, and we hope they take a step.

So if we draft 3 oline players at the top of the draft and let them start, our oline will most likely play worse. It will not be a quick fix.

So the question is, do they have to take OLine at 18? They don't have to, and I hope they don't. There is a ton of quality inside oline prospects this draft, so we don't need to overdraft for Oline need. It's a better value to draft one or two in the 2nd/3rd as the quality of that player is close to Zabel, or Booker. Granted if they did choose to draft Oline in the 1st I would be on board because it would mean they love that guy.

But I would be just fine with nearly any other position at 18. BPA

Well said! I feel the exact same way. I’d be ok with BPA at 18 unless it’s a kicker, QB, or RB.

Everything else is fair game…

It appears that the O-line talent and grades fall in a perfect spot for our draft positioning this year.

Also, great point on the maturation timeframe. I don’t have any statistics but, I’ve read and seen enough to agree with you.

 

[warden]

John is not sure if he will put the fifth year tender on Cross. Deadline is May 1st.

Let’s see, we used 9th overall pick on Cross, he is by far our best OL, he is 24 years old and just starting to enter his prime, a fifth year tender costs 17 million

Don’t understand why he is hesitant

 

[evergreen]

wait a week.

 

[Hawkinaz]

Agree w

Part of the narrative is very lazy, especially from your average Joe of a fan. Most teams are hurting for OL talent and, really, it usually comes down to scheme and coaching to maximize talent rather than continually trying to buy a line. The Eagles are out there turning rugby players into top flight left tackles and hitting on every OL pick - do all of those guys turn out as well elsewhere? No.

Not sure why John would actually put his foot that far into his mouth, though. Talk about kicking the hornets nest. Pete was clearly the more savvy communicator of the two.

Agree with your comment about coaching. The Seahawks could have brought in the same players that the Eagles did and come up with the same results that they have had. Jeff Stoutland is a top flight coach who before the Eagles had no NFL experience it was all in college


IMO half the Seahawks problem @OL has been they have been they are very young and inexperienced and now your average fan thinks the fix is to go younger. Last years offensive play calling made a sub par o line worse by asking them to hold up in 5 and 7 step drops in shotgun formation the offense they are going to will be what the doctor ordered. I can see the Hawks drafting a OG in the first 3 rounds and a back up OT mid-late draft. Jon Benton is a quality OL coach I would back up any input he has

 

[toffee]

John is not sure if he will put the fifth year tender on Cross. Deadline is May 1st.

Let’s see, we used 9th overall pick on Cross, he is by far our best OL, he is 24 years old and just starting to enter his prime, a fifth year tender costs 17 million

Don’t understand why he is hesitant

Speculations:

Cross doesn't have an agent, he negotiated his rookie contract. John, with his tiger eyes, is playing with Cross' inexperience. Poker players' style.

We may have tackles on the roster that can do the same job as Cross at a lower cost. Remember we just signed two tackles this off season?

John Schneider clearly has a plan and he is sticking to it.

 

[Hawkinaz]

I

John is not sure if he will put the fifth year tender on Cross. Deadline is May 1st.

Let’s see, we used 9th overall pick on Cross, he is by far our best OL, he is 24 years old and just starting to enter his prime, a fifth year tender costs 17 million

Don’t understand why he is hesitant

I am not sure what the new coaching staff feels about Cross they might see him as being a bit soft. I wouldn’t be surprised if they draft his replacement this draft and gamble on Josh Simmons

 

[hox]

Still gonna' wait to see what they do in the draft before I bust out the pitchforks.

Pitchforks at the ready. Multiple consecutive years of o-line ranked 28th-32nd.

 

[hox]

Agree w

Agree with your comment about coaching. The Seahawks could have brought in the same players that the Eagles did and come up with the same results that they have had. Jeff Stoutland is a top flight coach who before the Eagles had no NFL experience it was all in college


IMO half the Seahawks problem @OL has been they have been they are very young and inexperienced and now your average fan thinks the fix is to go younger. Last years offensive play calling made a sub par o line worse by asking them to hold up in 5 and 7 step drops in shotgun formation the offense they are going to will be what the doctor ordered. I can see the Hawks drafting a OG in the first 3 rounds and a back up OT mid-late draft. Jon Benton is a quality OL coach I would back up any input he has

Physicality in the trenches matter. A good scheme is not going to make bad talent, good.

I don't care what the scheme is. You put Big Walt and Hutch out there in their primes and they will open a hole when you need one.

 

[sutz]

Speculations:

Cross doesn't have an agent, he negotiated his rookie contract. John, with his tiger eyes, is playing with Cross' inexperience. Poker players' style.

We may have tackles on the roster that can do the same job as Cross at a lower cost. Remember we just signed two tackles this off season?

John Schneider clearly has a plan and he is sticking to it.

I believe Cross has hired an agent. Heard/read that just a couple of days ago.

They may be trying to forge a long term extension/contract that would forgo the need for the 5th year option that would be cheaper in cap space for this year and would set things up for the long haul. There are good reasons to not take the option route.

Or maybe they will let him walk, though I doubt they want to do that.

 

[AgentDib]

Here is the hard part about a fast Oline fix. Oline players tend to take 2-3 years to mature. The far majority of talented oline players don't come in and look good right away, they struggle like Haynes, Owlu, and Bradford have. Do we just throw in the towl on those guys? If you watch their college tape and put them in this draft they would go about the same place in the draft. They are talented, and we hope they take a step.

I agree with this, and in my view that's why extending players is a key part of the equation that we've been missing the last decade.

Once Damien Lewis became a UFA it was sensible to let him walk. His cap hits the next three years for the Panthers are 14.5m, 16.75m and 16.75m and his valuation last year was half that.

However, we should have been able to extend Lewis going into his fourth year in 2023. He had only earned ~$3m total at that point and was playing a fourth year for $3m with little in the way of guarantees. We could have signed him to a much cheaper deal than the Panthers did the following year given the time value of money with say $16m in guarantees that set him up for life. We saved a bit of money in 2023 instead - and missed the playoffs anyway.

 

[GemCity]

John is not sure if he will put the fifth year tender on Cross. Deadline is May 1st.

Let’s see, we used 9th overall pick on Cross, he is by far our best OL, he is 24 years old and just starting to enter his prime, a fifth year tender costs 17 million

Don’t understand why he is hesitant

Definitely confused on this end as well.

Perhaps it’s wise to wait to see how the draft plays out but…??!?!?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, signing him to an extension early next week or exercising that option, not really going to make difference if he does it now or next week.

 

[Ozzy]

In Schneider's defense: blocking for Russell Wilson made OL look bad; and, and from Schneider's eyes, Geno is geNO,

Im not saying this ins't partly true but multiple times Seattle lead the league in quick pressure while Wilson was here. The line has been bad almost John's entire time. Wilson could just make plays with his legs when he was younger and it masked a lot of the issues. Once he got older he couldn't do that as well and Geno could never really do it.

I love John but him saying its a lazy take is crazy. He's never done a good job correcting it.