Manziel better passer than Wilson

[Subzero717]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... scout-says

Lol.

If it wrong forum sorry mods. I cant stop laughing out loud.

 

[kearly]

Weird, that article is stamped March 1st, but most of the quotes in there are verbatim from a previous article posted at least a week ago, which had it's own lengthy thread.

Anyway, Manziel is great, but his only area where I'd put him ahead of Wilson is his creativity, and even then it's close. The scout is wrong (about Wilson's arm strength), but there are a lot of coaches who still don't get Wilson so we shouldn't be surprised that many scouts still don't get him either. Manziel is a fantastic passer and I have no issue putting him on par with Wilson, though Wilson plays safer.

 

[HawkWow]

Weird, that article is stamped March 1st, but most of the quotes in there are verbatim from a previous article posted at least a week ago, which had it's own lengthy thread.

Anyway, Manziel is great, but his only area where I'd put him ahead of Wilson is his creativity, and even then it's close. The scout is wrong (about Wilson's arm strength), but there are a lot of coaches who still don't get Wilson so we shouldn't be surprised that many scouts still don't get him either. Manziel is a fantastic passer and I have no issue putting him on par with Wilson, though Wilson plays safer.

Excellent take, Kearly.. and Manziel can throw the ball, for sure, but he is way too quick to throw the ball up for grabs. He better break this very bad habit or he will spend very little time as a #1 in the NFL. That and he takes way too many flush shots. Manziel is more Favre-like than Wilson-like, IMO.

 

[Natethegreat]

Just imagine if Wilson had Evans to toss the ball up to. They would be such an awesome duo its scary.

 

[QuahHawk]

Just imagine if Wilson had Evans to toss the ball up to. They would be such an awesome duo its scary.

Doesnt even need to be Evans just a 6'3 guy with hops.

 

[Subzero717]

What more can Wilson do? Then to say Manziels arm is "ok."? I think its better than okay but, if Manziels is okay whats Wilsons?

I think he could do well in Houston under Obrien, a hard arse but I dont know the coordinator in Cleve and Olsen in Oak Im not sure could corral Johnny to play didciplined.

I also like the reports out of Raids and Browns camps that both prefer Carr to Johnny. Horse pucky.

 

[HuskerHawk]

Wilson has a better arm, and it's not even close. He has top 10 arm talent easily in the NFL. Check out these vids of Wilson at Wisconsin. The ball literally pops out of his hand, almost jumping about half way like a good fastball will. Also note the throws he's making, with timing, accuracy, great footwork, and as textbook an arm slot as you'll see. I've been watching a good amount of film on this years class, and none of them come close in my evaluation to Wilson, Luck, and to a lesser extent Griffin.

[youtube]p_3D30UcWKk[/youtube]
[youtube]sDqrQ2sse0c[/youtube]

 

[Subzero717]

↑ Husker watch some Johnny football tape. To say its not close is inacurate IMO. Just as inaccurate as saying JF has a much better arm. Or saying eithers arm is okay. Also look how and where JF makes some throws. They are the same if not too close to call arm wise. I think its crazy to say one is far better than the other.

 

[Natethegreat]

How crazy would it be if Manziel fell to 32 and we picked him up? I bet Carrol would too. He was talking about Manziel at the combine and he made it clear he liked him. I doubt he falls past pick 8 though.

 

[HawkWow]

^ I know that's just having fun, but sure...IF Manziel fell to us, we'd have to take him if only to dangle him once another team's QB went down. Would I want Manziel as a hawk QB? No. I think he suffers from RG3 disease. Wants to do too much and has no clue when to give up on a play. Nothing against Manziel at all, but I will be surprised if he amounts to anything long term at this level.

Cleveland, IMO, would be a great fit for Manziel if for no other reason, he will put ass' in seats and I think it's damage control time in Cleveland. Even if he only lasts a couple of years, he will bring promise to the Browns. They've settled for less in the past. I wish the kid well. He's fun as hell to watch...but he won't be near as fun in the No Fun League, IMO.

 

[Subzero717]

↑ I had forgotten they hired Kyle Shannahan as OC. That actually isnt a bad scheme fit if Johnny can listen and play disciplined. The whole Carr crap is that.

Its funny I was watching a thing on why Johnnys "stock is falling" and they point to his LSU game and Florida last year where he didnt deal with fast edge rushers. Okay valid point. Now tell me exactly what vaunted defense with LSU type speed rushers did Bortels, Bridgewater or Carr exlploit exactly.

 

[HuskerHawk]

It wasn't the speed of the LSU and MIZZOU defense that gave JFF fits, it was the fact they employed a super conservative contain rush, allowing him tons of time to sit in the pocket. They dared him to make throws and he didn't. This is all from the shotgun spread mind you, which is WAY easier to make throws from. Concerning Bridgewater, he torched Florida last year, arguably the best defense in the nation. He also took it Miami this year, a team that underachieves, but has a ton of speed and talent on D.

Dude looks undraftable here. Holy smokes that was brutal.
[youtube]InyVF9Rgu0E[/youtube]

 

[Natethegreat]

Fair amount of exaggeration here^. Wasn't his best game but he had a lot of receiver drops. Manziel has talent just needs some coaching. You can't take one game and condemn him and exclude the boatload of other games were he excelled. Teams just need to figure out if Manziel is going to party or apply himself to his craft. If he applies himself he has the talent to succeed.

 

[Subzero717]

It wasn't the speed of the LSU and MIZZOU defense that gave JFF fits, it was the fact they employed a super conservative contain rush, allowing him tons of time to sit in the pocket. They dared him to make throws and he didn't. This is all from the shotgun spread mind you, which is WAY easier to make throws from. Concerning Bridgewater, he torched Florida last year, arguably the best defense in the nation. He also took it Miami this year, a team that underachieves, but has a ton of speed and talent on D.

Dude looks undraftable here. Holy smokes that was brutal.
[youtube]InyVF9Rgu0E[/youtube]

Apparently we watch things differently. I see Tigers in the backfield getting after him and several reciever drops. I would also just take a guess and say that if hanging back, not putting pressure on him and forcing him to pick you apart from the pocket was so easy Saban would have figured it out after last year.

 

[ivotuk]

Manziel isn't even close to Russell Wilson and will be a mediocre QB in the NFL. He was a lot of fun in the NCAA but even the SEC doesn't have have the kind of talent he will face on a weekly basis in the NFL. Whoever drafts this guy will have a lot of fun for the first few games, then things will turn sour and he'll have a slightly better career than Colt McCoy.

 

[HuskerHawk]

It wasn't the speed of the LSU and MIZZOU defense that gave JFF fits, it was the fact they employed a super conservative contain rush, allowing him tons of time to sit in the pocket. They dared him to make throws and he didn't. This is all from the shotgun spread mind you, which is WAY easier to make throws from. Concerning Bridgewater, he torched Florida last year, arguably the best defense in the nation. He also took it Miami this year, a team that underachieves, but has a ton of speed and talent on D.

Apparently we watch things differently. I see Tigers in the backfield getting after him and several reciever drops. I would also just take a guess and say that if hanging back, not putting pressure on him and forcing him to pick you apart from the pocket was so easy Saban would have figured it out after last year.

They did bring pressure at times, but how often is he sitting there undecisively patting the ball, either bailing or throwing some junk. As far as what Bama did, the first time he caught them a bit by surprise and completely balled out. The second time, there were a couple plays that were just complete freaking luck/ Evans being the best athlete on the field. Both times, regardless of gameplan, Bama allowed him to break contain pretty much at will, so that's a lack of execution on their part. LSU had the athletes and the plan, and executed it very well. JFF will need to really grow in his game, or that type of performance is going to be the norm rather than the exception. I will say I don't dislike Johnny, and in fact think he will have a measure of success in the league. I just get literally sick to my stomach when he get's compared to, and sometimes placed above RW. Wilson and Luck are 2 standard deviations better than anyone in this draft.

 

[Subzero717]

↑ I think in the nfl with the right system he will be fine. The Bama game this year I agree he was, I dont even know what. Scrambling for what seemed like the first half on way play and chucking it up fading away for 49 yards was stupid and he cant and wont do thst next level. Bama is a slower, built on size defense and LSU is faster and was able to track him down.

 

[Natethegreat]

You realize thats exactly what they said about Wilson right? That once he got to the league he would struggle? He couldn't be a pocket passer what not. He had some overthrows but quite frankly his line was not good and his receivers were not making plays either. Its one game though and he had plenty of others against good competition that he excelled. If he comes with a workman like attitude like Wilson he will succeed. If he is like Ryan Leaf and thinks everything should be handed to him then he will quickly fall out of the league.

 

[randomation]

You are saying a line isn't good that is going to have a top 5 and others drafted in the first 3 rounds.

 

[AgentDib]

Manziel needs to end up somewhere with a coach like Carroll that will encourage (some) creativity while emphasizing avoiding turnovers. A lot of what makes him special could end up being one step forward and two steps back against an opportunistic NFL secondary. The ability to extend plays with mobility is huge but the key to success for a mobile QB is being able to take care of the football.

Jacksonville could be a good fit for him if Bradley can replicate Carroll's offensive conservatism.