LJ Collier

[RiverDog]

It looks like we can pretty much call this former #1 draft choice a bust:

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... e-interest

This sentence makes it even worse:

It is certainly telling that Collier is having a hard time seeing the field for a defense that is ranked dead-last in terms of yards per game and that has been unable to generate a consistent pass rush.

Up until recently, I didn't question Pete's judgement when it came to his evaluation of defensive players for his system. But this combined with the Adams trade and a few other things, he's lost nearly all of my confidence.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

But...but...He's a big name being discussed as trade deadline looms...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/1452311673424031748[/tweet]

 

[Elemas]

You don’t say? I’ve been on this train since we took him over Sweat.

LJ has great hands though…so I’ve been told.

You’d think this dude was All-Pro bound the way this board supported him.

 

[toffee]

Conspiracy theory: Tre Flowers got pic of Collier in bed with Pete's ***". But seriously, Collier might have done something that landed him in dog house. He hasn't been good this season, but not like Green or Dunlap are good either.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[Rat]

Those of us who dared questioned the pick were eviscerated. Apparently Pete and John can do no wrong.

Collier is already 26 and has lost playing time on a horrific defense, getting passed on the depth chart by a guy who wasn't even in the league last year. To find a bust as bad as Collier, you have to go all the way back to when we drafted Rashaad Penny.

We had a four-year stretch where our first pick was the following players:

2019 L.J. Collier
2018 Rashaad Penny
2017 Malik McDowell
2016 Germaine Ifedi

It doesn't get much worse than that. 2015 was a hit with Frank Clark, but then you have Paul Richardson in 2014 and Christine Michael in 2013. Even Bruce Irvin the year prior was kind of a meh pick. Sadly, in 11 drafts Pete and John have controlled, Irvin is probably our second best first pick, and he wasn't even good enough to get his fifth-year option picked up. Both McDowell and James Carpenter figured it out, but not until after they had moved on from Seattle.

I will give Pete and John credit though: 2020 is looking like a really nice draft so far. Darrell Taylor (2nd round) and Damien Lewis (3rd round) look like big hits, while Jordyn Brooks (1st round), Deejay Dallas (4th round), and Alton Robinson (5th round) have, at the very least, been useful contributors. It'll be interesting to see if Colby Parkinson (4th round) can follow suit if/when he actually stays healthy.

 

[Rat]

You don’t say? I’ve been on this train since we took him over Sweat.

I hate to act like I know better than Pete and John, because we'd be the worst team in the league if they had let me make the picks, but Sweat was SUCH an obvious selection. He was a borderline top 10 pick that fell because of a health issue that he was later cleared on. It felt like another case of trading down for the sake of trading down.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

You don’t say? I’ve been on this train since we took him over Sweat.

I hate to act like I know better than Pete and John, because we'd be the worst team in the league if they had let me make the picks, but Sweat was SUCH an obvious selection. He was a borderline top 10 pick that fell because of a health issue that he was later cleared on. It felt like another case of trading down for the sake of trading down.

Let's not forget what happened last time everyone thought a pick was the obvious, safest pick possible...

 

[Rat]

You don’t say? I’ve been on this train since we took him over Sweat.

I hate to act like I know better than Pete and John, because we'd be the worst team in the league if they had let me make the picks, but Sweat was SUCH an obvious selection. He was a borderline top 10 pick that fell because of a health issue that he was later cleared on. It felt like another case of trading down for the sake of trading down.

Let's not forget what happened last time everyone thought a pick was the obvious, safest pick possible...

I didn't say Sweat was safe, I said he was obvious. I don't think those are the same thing. He had high potential and was the best fit at the time for what we needed. It was a rare occasion when BPA and biggest need coincided.

But yeah, nobody is bust proof. A lot of "safe" picks have been enormously successful (Peyton Manning, Walter Jones, Calvin Johnson), while a few others like Curry and Robert Gallery failed to even reach the floor they were believed to have. The draft is tough.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

You don’t say? I’ve been on this train since we took him over Sweat.

I hate to act like I know better than Pete and John, because we'd be the worst team in the league if they had let me make the picks, but Sweat was SUCH an obvious selection. He was a borderline top 10 pick that fell because of a health issue that he was later cleared on. It felt like another case of trading down for the sake of trading down.

Let's not forget what happened last time everyone thought a pick was the obvious, safest pick possible...

I didn't say Sweat was safe, I said he was obvious. I don't think those are the same thing. He had high potential and was the best fit at the time for what we needed. It was a rare occasion when BPA and biggest need coincided.

But yeah, nobody is bust proof. A lot of "safe" picks have been enormously successful (Peyton Manning, Walter Jones, Calvin Johnson), a few others like Curry and Robert Gallery failed to even reach the floor they were believed to have. The draft is tough.

I understand, just pointing out that nothing is really certain when it comes to the draft. He also had a heart condition IIRC, which seemed like a bit of a question mark. Would've been absolutely horrifying if something had happened to him during an NFL game, where the game is more rough/fierce than college, and also I think it was around that time that PC and Co. wanted to make less-risky picks that year...Hindsight is 20/20 though.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Those of us who dared questioned the pick were eviscerated. Apparently Pete and John can do no wrong.

Seems dramatic. I have a pretty different recollection of how the pick was received.

 

[Rat]

Those of us who dared questioned the pick were eviscerated. Apparently Pete and John can do no wrong.

Seems dramatic. I have a pretty different recollection of how the pick was received.

I'm definitely being hyperbolic, but there have been numerous posters that run to Collier's defense with the ol' "I trust our front office over some nobody on the internet" and that kind of thing that you see whenever a pick is questioned. Is Largent80 still around? He was adamant that Collier would be a stud after his rookie season and talked down to those who were concerned by his healthy scratches.

 

[RiverDog]

I'm not going to engage in 20/20 hindsight and argue that we should have taken this player that was available over that player whom we selected. Nick Chubb instead of Rashaad Penny and Fletcher Cox over Bruce Irvin are two that I often hear mentioned. Every team could go through the same exercise over every failed draft selection.

What is more relevant to the discussion is the pattern of failed draft picks vs. successful selections. We also have to note trades where we've sent top draft picks, some including players, to other teams in exchange for players that never yielded more than we paid out, such as Percy Harvin, Shelden Richardson, Jimmy Graham, and more recently, Jamal Adams.

Bottom line is that we have not been getting sufficient value for our top draft choices, and LJ Collier is just one more example of a very sad, unsatisfactory performance that has resulted in a lack of talent on our current roster.

 

[Grahamhawker]

I liked Collier based on his college performance. Then I gave him the benefit of the doubt through his injured/almost redshirt rookie year. Even last year I saw enough splashes of productivity to give me hope he could at least be an adequate starter or even rotational guy. At this point, yeah... I'm off that bandwagon.

 

[nanomoz]

I wanted Collier in the draft. I thought he could be a versatile rusher all over the line like Michael Bennett.

Last year gave me some hope. But his inability to make the gameday roster this year is probably the death bell for his time in Seattle.

 

[jammerhawk]

Collier has demonstrated he's a bust and at best a JAG type player unworthy of his draft status.

If the team recovered a 5th or 6th round pick for him they'd be well compensated.

 

[RiverDog]

Collier has demonstrated he's a bust and at best a JAG type player unworthy of his draft status.

If the team recovered a 5th or 6th round pick for him they'd be well compensated.

I'd be elated if we could get a 5th for Collier, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[RiverDog]

I will give Pete and John credit though: 2020 is looking like a really nice draft so far. Darrell Taylor (2nd round) and Damien Lewis (3rd round) look like big hits, while Jordyn Brooks (1st round), Deejay Dallas (4th round), and Alton Robinson (5th round) have, at the very least, been useful contributors. It'll be interesting to see if Colby Parkinson (4th round) can follow suit if/when he actually stays healthy.

Yes, the 2020 draft is shaping up as one of our better drafts. Like you said, they are all solid contributors. But the problem is that for the most part, with the possible exception of Lewis, they are all average, C or B types if we were to grade them. There are no impact, Pro Bowl quality players in that group. Metcalf and Dickson are the only players acquired in the draft and currently on their rookie contracts that fall into that category.

Of course, it doesn't help that we almost always trade away our first round pick or trade down accumulate draft picks that we burned in trades. Oddly enough, the only two picks in the past 5 years or so that we hit the jackpot on, Dickson and Metcalf, we actually traded up to get them. I'm beginning to question Schneider's strategy of trading down.

 

[nwHawk]

Collier has demonstrated he's a bust and at best a JAG type player unworthy of his draft status.

If the team recovered a 5th or 6th round pick for him they'd be well compensated.

I'd be elated if we could get a 5th for Collier, but I'm not holding my breath.

I hope you are right. I’d expect a 7th the way this front office works. Terrible scheme fit, which was finally realized. Would have liked to see Hawks tweak the 3 - 4 defense and play more man coverage instead of this shit we see, but whatever. LJ will be better as a base end. He is what he is.

 

[Rat]

Of course, it doesn't help that we almost always trade away our first round pick or trade down accumulate draft picks that we burned in trades. Oddly enough, the only two picks in the past 5 years or so that we hit the jackpot on, Dickson and Metcalf, we actually traded up to get them. I'm beginning to question Schneider's strategy of trading down.

I assume part of the reason they're so gung-ho about trading down and acquiring picks is so they can make a move up for someone like Metcalf, Dickson, or Lockett when they are available in a good spot. It makes sense in theory, but I feel like they've locked too much into it, and have passed on several high-end talents as a result.

 

[nwHawk]

There’s that for sure. JS acts like very draft is loaded, and sometimes it’s filled with duds - and you can only polish a turd oh so much. Imagine if we had Fletcher Cox when he was drafted with our draft slot!! Arg.