Kyle Shanahan… I'm Beginning to Have My Doubts

[Fade]

As some may or may not know, I have been a big proponent of his for a longtime. I had hopes and dreams of him being scooped up as the new OC to replace Bevell back in 2015. He is a brilliant offensive mind and playcaller that would fit Wilson's game like a glove. Running those outside zone plays with boot action, it would've been a match made in heaven.

I thought Quinn was a genius when he made him his OC, and I got really nervous when the Niners hired him. I knew they would still suck the first couple of years, due to talent deficiency, but if they ever got that solved, I knew they were going to become a big problem.

Last year, before the season I called it on this very forum, "Make no mistake the Niners are the real threat, not the Rams."

But this year, Kyle has had some really head scratching decisions, and done things that are not becoming of a head coach. He is starting to appear to be that cliché, milquetoast OC, turned HC. A guy that is brilliant when he's on the whiteboard designing plays. But is lacking in the management skills necessary to handle personnel (He has Pete Carroll power down there, the Niners modeled their power structure like the Seahawks.) To lead men, and inspire his players to give great effort when on the field. They are a team that is really lacking in leadership, and it starts with the HC.

The Niners had all of their weapons on hand, Jimmy back in the lineup, and they could only muster 17 points against the lowly Dolphins? It was ugly, and the offense was unprepared for that game. But forget the offense for a moment, that would be judging him as a playcaller again.

Let's focus on the stuff that the head man in charge is supposed to provide. Shanny told his team after coming off of a superbowl loss, that they were the best team in the league and they proved it last year. Which set them up for failure this season as they now have nothing to prove. Wow, super inspiring coach!

The injuries some would say did them in. But fun fact: The Seahawks have suffered the most injuries in the league, (SF is #2) and it hasn't stopped the Hawks from going 5-0.

Yes, the Hawks have Wilson, but they also have Pete, who gets his players to play with incredible effort on every play. While providing the proper leadership and voice for the team on a day to day basis. Also any Niner fan would tell you the Niners have the deeper roster so they should be more equipped to deal with the injuries.

Now back to the game on Sunday. The Ahkello Witherspoon, Brian Allen debacle. Who TF is Brian Allen?? They then promptly bench him after he was roasted for 3 TDs. And he will probably never play in the league ever again. They saw Jimmy in practice all week and they still started him? Why?

Matt Maiocco summarized it best ->
[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBCS49ers/status/1315433644807393281[/tweet]

The Niners are about to embark on the toughest stretch of games that any team will face this year.

LAR
@ NE
@ SEA
GB
@ NO
@ LAR
BUF

:shock: :shock: :shock:

It's really easy to be a leader when things are going great like last year, but you don't actually know what you truly have until the adversity hits. This stretch of games is going to reveal Kyle's true character as a HC.

I don't expect him to actually win very many of these games, but I do expect him to inspire his team to play with great effort and grit. Otherwise he's just an OC pretending to be an HC.

 

[Maulbert]

Shanny has a weakness. Might want to check this article out:

https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...le-shanahans-49ers-will-blow-significant-lead

This was written before SB LIV. Keep that in mind.

It's not just the Atlanta who blow leads. Seems pretty obvious in hindsight the Falcons couldn't hold a 25 point lead.

 

[CPHawk]

My worry is that they wise up in Santa Clara, and dump Jimmy G and sign Dak. Shanny O would be great with Dak.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

It's hard to place blame on Shan for the cornerback issue. Due to injuries they didn't have anyone but PS guys and no preseason/short camp makes it harder than in past years to evaluate new guys.

Putting in Jimmy G however was totally his fault. He was a hurt statue out there putting little weight on his back foot. JG didn't have an injury designation on Friday and they couldn't see something that obvious in practice, just when he threw a bunch of ints.

The OL is mostly their starters from last year with exception of Williams who was supposed to be better than Staley and they appear to be regressing as a unit. Again totally on Shan.

 

[KinesProf]

Maybe 2019 is the Shanahan/Lyhch outlier season, and not 17, 18 or 20.

 

[ivotuk]

Spot on Fade. Again. I remember your post last year, and appreciate the fact that you'll go out on a limb. Easy to do when you're right all the time, right?

I thought the 49ers were the team this year with all of that early 1st round talent on the Dline, but injuries got to them. But so did their head coach. Kyle needs more seasoning as an OC. If I were him, I'd try to get a job with Pete to learn the ropes, and to have the "privilege" of coaching Russell Wilson.

I like Robert Saleh, but I think he's been the beneficiary of a loaded defensive roster. Again, more seasoning and he will be a good coach, as long as he keeps his confidence.

 

[Ramfan128]

I think it's more about who has been injured, rather than the number of injuries.

 

[bigskydoc]

As long as the Rams stay healthy, they are going to be a formidable force. They are enjoying the kind of injury favorable year that SF had last year. We may as well go ahead and give Donald the DPOY trophy now.

Despite their inexplicable loss to Detroit, I still believe the NFCW comes down to the Cards vs the Hawks, but the favorable schedule for the Rams may propel them into the competition.

We know is isn't all about the number of injuries, but which players go out that is the key. The Niner have reverted to the injury mean, but aren't losing JAGs. They lost marquee players, and I agree that KS is not the guy to overcome the deficit with his JAGs. They are done, and won't make the playoffs.

Not to suggest that Carroll is so good that he could overcome the loss of his starting QB.

 

[CPHawk]

I think it's more about who has been injured, rather than the number of injuries.

They also underestimated Defo on the DL. He was the best player on the DL they had, and traded him. Now Indy suddenly has the top ranked D.

 

[Ramfan128]

As long as the Rams stay healthy, they are going to be a formidable force. They are enjoying the kind of injury favorable year that SF had last year. We may as well go ahead and give Donald the DPOY trophy now.

Despite their inexplicable loss to Detroit, I still believe the NFCW comes down to the Cards vs the Hawks, but the favorable schedule for the Rams may propel them into the competition.

We know is isn't all about the number of injuries, but which players go out that is the key. The Niner have reverted to the injury mean, but aren't losing JAGs. They lost marquee players, and I agree that KS is not the guy to overcome the deficit with his JAGs. They are done, and won't make the playoffs.

Not to suggest that Carroll is so good that he could overcome the loss of his starting QB.

So as far as the favorable schedule goes, Seahawks and Cards automatically have it easier. We all play the same teams except for the NFC South and North teams.

Rams: Bears and Bucs (7-3)

Seahawks: Falcons and Vikings (1-9)

Cardinals: Lions and Panthers - already lost to both, but obviously not as good as the Bears or Bucs.

McVay has never lost to Arizona, so I just can't imagine them finishing ahead of the Rams this year. We'll see.

 

[Marvin49]

I have no doubts on Shanahan.

It's the injuries and a perplexingly underperforming offensive line.

Its not enough to say "they have injuries". It WHERE those injuries are, specifically outside pass rush and CB. They have lost all ability to get pressure and they were literally down their #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 corners. No Pressure, no coverage, no defense.

They've had injuries on offense as well, most notably at WR, TE, and of course QB, but the most alarming issue has been O-Line. They only have one injury there, but they have regressed substantially there.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

I have no doubts on Shanahan.

It's the injuries and a perplexingly underperforming offensive line.

Its not enough to say "they have injuries". It WHERE those injuries are, specifically outside pass rush and CB. They have lost all ability to get pressure and they were literally down their #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 corners. No Pressure, no coverage, no defense.

They've had injuries on offense as well, most notably at WR, TE, and of course QB, but the most alarming issue has been O-Line. They only have one injury there, but they have regressed substantially there.

If I were Shan I'd be reaching out to Staley to do an OL consultant deal.

It can't hurt.

 

[94Smith]

Here is the equivalent in Seahawk injuries:

WR Metcalf - start season on IR, play week 5
WR Lockett- miss first two games of season with a hamstring
C Ethan Pocic- start season on PUP
TE Dissly- miss two games with an injured knee and bone bruise, TE Greg Olsen- IR with a ankle sprain
QB Wilson- miss 2.5 games with a high ankle sprain
RB Chris Carson- miss 3 games with an ankle sprain
RB Carlos Hyde- IR high ankle sprain

DE LJ Collier -out for season ACL
DT Jarran Reed - out for season ACL
NT Anthony Rush - miss two games
LEO - Benson Mayowa IR - back pain
OLB - KJ Wright- new high ankle sprain
RCB Quinton Dunbar - IR , calf
LCB Shaquill Griffin- missed two games concussion
RCB Tre Flowers IR - high ankle sprain
LCB - Ryan Neal - miss 2 games hamstring

And you guys are blaming the coach. That's rich.

Mistake made is not getting help for 48. (I don't even know his f'in name because he is like our 8th corner) Roll coverage, yank him, do something . But no, they put up 24 points and 225 yards, plus one PI to his side and kept him on an island. That's on Saleh. Also on witherspoon for being soft.

Jimmy was fine enough to play, he was throwing fine in my mind until he got hit 3-4 times and couldn't scramble away. The second mistake is the call on 4th and 1 to line up in shotgun. I don't know why they didn't put Jimmy under centre, but perhaps a QB sneak is not an option with his ankle. He is really rusty and did not FP until Friday, so perhaps should not have started.

3rd mistake is continuing to press the issue before the half, they should have called screens and runs to pick up something cheap.

So yeah, this last Miami game had coaching errors, but where were the errors in the other 4 games?

 

[Fade]

I think it's more about who has been injured, rather than the number of injuries.

I expect their defense to look subpar, I'm not surprised there, but they had 10 of 11 starters on offense against the Dolphins and looked like crap. The defense is injured but the O should be a well oiled machine right now with Shanny in in his 4th season there. They have leadership issues, lack of hunger, AND injuries.

 

[Fade]

Here is the equivalent in Seahawk injuries:

WR Metcalf - start season on IR, play week 5
WR Lockett- miss first two games of season with a hamstring
C Ethan Pocic- start season on PUP
TE Dissly- miss two games with an injured knee and bone bruise, TE Greg Olsen- IR with a ankle sprain
QB Wilson- miss 2.5 games with a high ankle sprain
RB Chris Carson- miss 3 games with an ankle sprain
RB Carlos Hyde- IR high ankle sprain

DE LJ Collier -out for season ACL
DT Jarran Reed - out for season ACL
NT Anthony Rush - miss two games
LEO - Benson Mayowa IR - back pain
OLB - KJ Wright- new high ankle sprain
RCB Quinton Dunbar - IR , calf
LCB Shaquill Griffin- missed two games concussion
RCB Tre Flowers IR - high ankle sprain
LCB - Ryan Neal - miss 2 games hamstring

And you guys are blaming the coach. That's rich.

Mistake made is not getting help for 48. (I don't even know his f'in name because he is like our 8th corner) Roll coverage, yank him, do something . But no, they put up 24 points and 225 yards, plus one PI to his side and kept him on an island. That's on Saleh. Also on witherspoon for being soft.

Jimmy was fine enough to play, he was throwing fine in my mind until he got hit 3-4 times and couldn't scramble away. The second mistake is the call on 4th and 1 to line up in shotgun. I don't know why they didn't put Jimmy under centre, but perhaps a QB sneak is not an option with his ankle. He is really rusty and did not FP until Friday, so perhaps should not have started.

3rd mistake is continuing to press the issue before the half, they should have called screens and runs to pick up something cheap.

So yeah, this last Miami game had coaching errors, but where were the errors in the other 4 games?

Ultimately the point I was trying to make is the Seahawks have lost starters and big stars like Jamal Adams to injury too, and they're still finding ways to win these games, with a dumpster fire of a defense. Meanwhile The 9ers looked incredibly flat, disinterested, and disorganized against the Dolphins in what should've been a get right game coming off of a loss. They are not a motivated football team.

There should be a sense of urgency in the building this week. If they get boat raced by the Rams, and look noncompetitive with the starting offense largely intact. There are bigger underlying problems afoot with the Niners. LEADERSHIP. I'm seeing a team that is playing with no passion, no matter who is on the field. No Heart. S-O-F-T.

 

[Marvin49]

I think it's more about who has been injured, rather than the number of injuries.

I expect their defense to look subpar, I'm not surprised there, but they had 10 of 11 starters on offense against the Dolphins and looked like crap. The defense is injured but the O should be a well oiled machine right now with Shanny in in his 4th season there. They have leadership issues, lack of hunger, AND injuries.

They don't have leadership or hunger issues.

They have injury issues and inability to block on the O-Line issues.

 

[Marvin49]

Here is the equivalent in Seahawk injuries:

WR Metcalf - start season on IR, play week 5
WR Lockett- miss first two games of season with a hamstring
C Ethan Pocic- start season on PUP
TE Dissly- miss two games with an injured knee and bone bruise, TE Greg Olsen- IR with a ankle sprain
QB Wilson- miss 2.5 games with a high ankle sprain
RB Chris Carson- miss 3 games with an ankle sprain
RB Carlos Hyde- IR high ankle sprain

DE LJ Collier -out for season ACL
DT Jarran Reed - out for season ACL
NT Anthony Rush - miss two games
LEO - Benson Mayowa IR - back pain
OLB - KJ Wright- new high ankle sprain
RCB Quinton Dunbar - IR , calf
LCB Shaquill Griffin- missed two games concussion
RCB Tre Flowers IR - high ankle sprain
LCB - Ryan Neal - miss 2 games hamstring

And you guys are blaming the coach. That's rich.

Mistake made is not getting help for 48. (I don't even know his f'in name because he is like our 8th corner) Roll coverage, yank him, do something . But no, they put up 24 points and 225 yards, plus one PI to his side and kept him on an island. That's on Saleh. Also on witherspoon for being soft.

Jimmy was fine enough to play, he was throwing fine in my mind until he got hit 3-4 times and couldn't scramble away. The second mistake is the call on 4th and 1 to line up in shotgun. I don't know why they didn't put Jimmy under centre, but perhaps a QB sneak is not an option with his ankle. He is really rusty and did not FP until Friday, so perhaps should not have started.

3rd mistake is continuing to press the issue before the half, they should have called screens and runs to pick up something cheap.

So yeah, this last Miami game had coaching errors, but where were the errors in the other 4 games?

Ultimately the point I was trying to make is the Seahawks have lost starters and big stars like Jamal Adams to injury too, and they're still finding ways to win these games, with a dumpster fire of a defense. Meanwhile The 9ers looked incredibly flat, disinterested, and disorganized against the Dolphins in what should've been a get right game coming off of a loss. They are not a motivated football team.

There should be a sense of urgency in the building this week. If they get boat raced by the Rams, and look noncompetitive with the starting offense largely intact. There are bigger underlying problems afoot with the Niners. LEADERSHIP. I'm seeing a team that is playing with no passion, no matter who is on the field. No Heart. S-O-F-T.

WOW. WAYYYYY off base on that one.

What you are seeing is a D that has been decimated and an O that can't protect its QB to save their lives.

I'm no Jimmy G hater, but come on man....the difference is pretty clear. Its Russell Wilson. I'm a Niner fan and I know Wilson is light years better than any QB the Niners have. What would your record be if Wilson had missed 2.5 games? I suspect you wouldn't be saying the team was soft and lacked leadership.

 

[Fade]

I have no doubts on Shanahan.

It's the injuries and a perplexingly underperforming offensive line.

Its not enough to say "they have injuries". It WHERE those injuries are, specifically outside pass rush and CB. They have lost all ability to get pressure and they were literally down their #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 corners. No Pressure, no coverage, no defense.

They've had injuries on offense as well, most notably at WR, TE, and of course QB, but the most alarming issue has been O-Line. They only have one injury there, but they have regressed substantially there.

Great offensive coaches, which Shanny is, always seem to have a well-oiled machine on offense. Andy Reed lost Mahomes last year, Matt Moore stepped in for a spell and they didn't miss a beat.

The excuses for the defense are justified. The offense should not be this bad, though. The more I look into what is going on down there, the more I'm not liking what I'm seeing when I put the injuries off to the side. The upcoming games will tell us a lot about what kind of motivator Kyle is. Again, I'm not expecting a lot wins upcoming given the schedule, that's not what I'm looking at. I'm trying to see a team willing to put up a fight and remain competitive. With the HC displaying real influence, while leading his team through an adverse season.

 

[94Smith]

The offensive issues begin and end with the offensive line. I think they will get better, but that is where the issues are coming from. WAYYY too many pressures, I think 49ers QBS have taken the most hits in the league. Our offense only succeeds when we can run the ball and do play action. They have not been able to run the ball consistently and are getting into 3rd and long situations with a lot of sacks

 

[Marvin49]

I have no doubts on Shanahan.

It's the injuries and a perplexingly underperforming offensive line.

Its not enough to say "they have injuries". It WHERE those injuries are, specifically outside pass rush and CB. They have lost all ability to get pressure and they were literally down their #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 corners. No Pressure, no coverage, no defense.

They've had injuries on offense as well, most notably at WR, TE, and of course QB, but the most alarming issue has been O-Line. They only have one injury there, but they have regressed substantially there.

Great offensive coaches, which Shanny is, always seem to have a well-oiled machine on offense. Andy Reed lost Mahomes last year, Matt Moore stepped in for a spell and they didn't miss a beat.

The excuses for the defense are justified. The offense should not be this bad, though. The more I look into what is going on down there, the more I'm not liking what I'm seeing when I put the injuries off to the side. The upcoming games will tell us a lot about what kind of motivator Kyle is. Again, I'm not expecting a lot wins upcoming given the schedule, that's not what I'm looking at. I'm trying to see a team willing to put up a fight and remain competitive. With the HC displaying real influence, while leading his team through an adverse season.

...and again...the problem is NOT motivation.

As we've been saying on SEVERAL occasions here and you seem to just kinda be skipping over, the problems for the most part are on the offensive line. Deebo JUST got back. Aiyuk has looked pretty good. Kittle just got back a few games ago. Mostert and Coleman missed the last several games, tho Mostert was one of the bright spots last week in his first game back.

The issue right now is protection. There are two new starters and a backup center, but they are giving up WAY too much pressure. That how Jimmy got hurt in the first place. Add problems in protection to a QB who is totally immobile due to that injury...bad Mojo. Then you add a D giving up yards and points in bunches and being forced to pass the ball with an injured QB and no protection...you get sunday.

Finally, Jimmy, as much as I like him, isn't Russell Wilson. Wilson covers ALOT of problems in protection and covered problems on D. As much as I'd like him to be, Jimmy just isn't that guy. He doesn't need to be either.

So please, spare me the "we've had injuries too and we are still good". Yes, you've had injuries...but guess what would happen if one of those injuries was Russell Wilson.

You wouldn't be here saying...."wow, looks like a motivation problem". No, you'd be saying "Its the injuries stupid".