K.J. Wright Talks Ken Norton Jr. Firing

[LTH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOFGWA9GNck

Interesting perspective on the Seahawks defense and power structure. I find it to be completely interesting..

It's clear to me that KJ really wants to be in Seattle...I'm wondering how much hard feelings he feels for the front office.

Interesting thoughts on Ken Norton jr and Schotty..

I think this pod cast has opened up about how the game plans are created..




Edit:

KJ says how good of a coach KNJ is. says he goes the extra mile for his players success. KJ says that everybody is involved in the game planning, but Pete has the final say. So my take is that Pete lays out framework for what he wants and then leaves it to the coaches to figure the rest out and then if he doesn't like it they make adjustments... I think KJ was really surprised at KNJ firing he questions if it came from the top and if Pete had his back or not

There is a lot open to interpretation, sounds to me, and I'm reading between the lines, that KJ has some resentment or feelings around Carroll..

sounds like KJ was blowen away at Schotty being fired. also said he has no idea how that went down. also indicated that Carroll had his nose in the O as well. made a comparison to the way Gruden does things saying Gruden didn't care about the D left it up to the D coordinator but also says that it's different with every organization.

There was a lot said and I think it IS VERY mUCH worth the time to listen to the complete pod cast as they go over D schemes and KJ talks about JA and how he thinks he should be used. I don't have time to write about the whole thing there was a lot said... I wouldn't post it if it wasn't good...




LTH

 

[AROS]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

 

[notyou]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

What he said.

At least post cliff notes or a summary for those of us that don't want to listen to a podcast.

 

[Steve Hawk]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

It wasn't Ken Norton and it wasn't Schotty it was the grey haired guy!

 

[John63]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

 

[LTH]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

ok made a short synopsis

yes john I agree with you everybody has a different perspective and I'm sure that guys like you and fade and twisted Husky are going to see it differently than I.



LTH

 

[chris98251]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

So really what many have said here since Pete day one..................

 

[Jville]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

So really what many have said here since Pete day one..................

That is the case for all head coaches.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Quick synopsis for us lazy bastards? Asking for a friend.

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

So really what many have said here since Pete day one..................

That is the case for all head coaches.

KJ just said Gruden never messed with the defense because that wasnt his forte. He left it up to the coordinator. Carroll should follow that example when it comes to Seattles offense.

 

[Jville]

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

So really what many have said here since Pete day one..................

That is the case for all head coaches.

KJ just said Gruden never messed with the defense because that wasnt his forte. He left it up to the coordinator. Carroll should take that example and apply it to his involvement with Seattles offense.

Head Coaches have the authority to delegate as much or as little authority as they see fit for the program they run. Didn't KJ also say that offenses and defenses must complement each other?

 

[John63]

So if I were you I would listen to it yourself. No matter how hard we try we are all human and will spin it the way we want and or see it.

Example For me what I took was it made it crystal clear that anything to do with the offense or defense PC has the final say and things are run the way he wants.

So really what many have said here since Pete day one..................

That is the case for all head coaches.

KJ just said Gruden never messed with the defense because that wasnt his forte. He left it up to the coordinator. Carroll should follow that example when it comes to Seattles offense.

That is what most HCs do. Most HC do not micromanage their OCs and DCs. If they are going to then why bother having an OC or DC to be a puppet or in this case fall guy. This team will never get anyplace until PC sees his own shortcoming and stops micromanaging. Let's be real we were very lucky in the first 4-5 years. PC came from college and he knew all the players and knew who to get for what he wanted to do. The problem is he no longer has that advantage. The rules have even changed so that what worked in the LOB days does not anymore. However, he shows little desire, outside of the last 2 games to change. Hopefully, that is what we will see. But we thought that after the 1st half of the first game only for it to disappear in the 2nd.

Someplace in this forum, it was posted a direct quote from several players of teams we faced where they say they knew what was coming on 80% of the plays. That is a problem and the biggest issue I have with PC. In his book, he says He wants to run, throw long, and out-execute the other team. Great, except when the other teams know what's coming you cant out-execute them unless you have superior talent across the board, something that is very very hard to achieve.

What we did in the last 2 games for the whole game was perfect, in that we had lots of motion, varying routes, and it was hard to know for sure what was coming. If that is what we do next year we will be fine, as long as PC stays out of it.

 

[Jville]

So really what many have said here since Pete day one..................

That is the case for all head coaches.

KJ just said Gruden never messed with the defense because that wasnt his forte. He left it up to the coordinator. Carroll should follow that example when it comes to Seattles offense.

That is what most HCs do. Most HC do not micromanage their OCs and DCs. If they are going to then why bother having an OC or DC to be a puppet or in this case fall guy. This team will never get anyplace until PC sees his own shortcoming and stops micromanaging. Let's be real we were very lucky in the first 4-5 years. OPC came from college and he knew all the players and knew who to get for what he wanted to do. The problem is he no longer has that advantage. The rules have even changed so that what worked in the LOB days does not anymore. However, he shows little desire, outside of the last 2 games to change. Hopefully, that is what we will see. But we thought that after the 1st half of the first game only fo rit to disappear in the 2nd.

Someplace in this forum, it was posted a direct quote from several players of teams we faced where they say they knew what was coming on 80% of the plays. That is a problem and the biggest issue I have with PC. In his book, he says He wants to run, throw long, and out-execute the other team. Great, except when the other teams know what's coming you cant out-execute them unless you have superior talent across the board, something that is very very hard to achieve.

What we did in the last 2 games for the whole game was perfect, in that we had lots of motion, varying routes, and it was hard to know for sure what was coming. If that is what we do next year we will be fine, as long as PC stays out of it.

Yet another rerun of the micro managing myth.

 

[ivotuk]

Dave Wyman did some research, and every year that Ken was here, the defensive ranking deteriorated. Same thing in Oakland when he was the DC there. Jack Del Rio got really pissed at Norton and took the play ccalling away for awhile. Maybe too many pass rushers dropping in to coverage?

I think Pete waited too long to fire Ken Norton, and was told do so this spring.

Remember Schotty's first 2 games? Against some of the best pass rushers in the league, and he kept calling for passes. Russell got hammred, and we lost both games.

Schotty, IMHO, couldn't resist the temptation to have Russell throw the ball. Our running game suffered, Russell got beat up, and even when it worked and we were scoring a lot of points, he never adjusted when the opposing defenses did, and the Offense got ate alive.

Waldron is going to be a good one, and once the Superblow is over, we might see a DC hire. Maybe they're waiting for a coach from the Rams or Bengals?

 

[John63]

That is the case for all head coaches.

KJ just said Gruden never messed with the defense because that wasnt his forte. He left it up to the coordinator. Carroll should follow that example when it comes to Seattles offense.

That is what most HCs do. Most HC do not micromanage their OCs and DCs. If they are going to then why bother having an OC or DC to be a puppet or in this case fall guy. This team will never get anyplace until PC sees his own shortcoming and stops micromanaging. Let's be real we were very lucky in the first 4-5 years. OPC came from college and he knew all the players and knew who to get for what he wanted to do. The problem is he no longer has that advantage. The rules have even changed so that what worked in the LOB days does not anymore. However, he shows little desire, outside of the last 2 games to change. Hopefully, that is what we will see. But we thought that after the 1st half of the first game only fo rit to disappear in the 2nd.

Someplace in this forum, it was posted a direct quote from several players of teams we faced where they say they knew what was coming on 80% of the plays. That is a problem and the biggest issue I have with PC. In his book, he says He wants to run, throw long, and out-execute the other team. Great, except when the other teams know what's coming you cant out-execute them unless you have superior talent across the board, something that is very very hard to achieve.

What we did in the last 2 games for the whole game was perfect, in that we had lots of motion, varying routes, and it was hard to know for sure what was coming. If that is what we do next year we will be fine, as long as PC stays out of it.

Yet another rerun of the micro managing myth.

except its not a myth it has be proven by PCs own words, KJs word, and several other players.

 

[John63]

Dave Wyman did some research, and every year that Ken was here, the defensive ranking deteriorated. Same thing in Oakland when he was the DC there. Jack Del Rio got really pissed at Norton and took the play ccalling away for awhile. Maybe too many pass rushers dropping in to coverage?

I think Pete waited too long to fire Ken Norton, and was told do so this spring.

Remember Schotty's first 2 games? Against some of the best pass rushers in the league, and he kept calling for passes. Russell got hammred, and we lost both games.

Schotty, IMHO, couldn't resist the temptation to have Russell throw the ball. Our running game suffered, Russell got beat up, and even when it worked and we were scoring a lot of points, he never adjusted when the opposing defenses did, and the Offense got ate alive.

Waldron is going to be a good one, and once the Superblow is over, we might see a DC hire. Maybe they're waiting for a coach from the Rams or Bengals?

only as long as PC stays out of the offense. and FYI KJ said PC was involved in everything and what he said goes Paraphrase. So unless PC lets his OC and DCs do their jobs were in for more of the same

 

[jammerhawk]

The Anti-Peters always are alleging that no coordinator for the Hawks ever has any independent authority and are always subservient to PC. Given the amount orf responsibility that thinking would put upon PC they put him in a Superman like status who micro manages every aspect of the team. This is extraordinarily unlikely and inconsistent with past successes achieved by the team.

Ockams Razor would tend to disprove this superman theory. In the end it doesn't matter your view on PC and whether he is a ridiculously meddling micromanager or a coach who doesn't have the personnel to play the type of football he'd prefer to see played. The results from the team defensively have been poor now for the past two seasons with the Hawks simply not having the type of quality D Seattle fans have recently come to expect. The DC has been unable to change the direction of the D with any reliability. Is this all on Pete? I reject that thinking as it fall back into the Superman mentality.

The pass D has been extremely disappointing for a good few years now and changes needed to be made. All in all KNJ is a good coach and a far better LBs coach than he ever was as a DC. Some will blame Pete as the great Satan for all bad things Seahawks with an unremitting view that PeteBall their pergorative for run focused football is crappy ball despite it's physicality and hope for defensive success. This view was almost turned on it's head by the Niners who admittedly have a better D than the Hawks by a huge margin with real DLine personnel superiority but played PeteBall and got to the championship round doing it.

To me truth is the Hawks have been very unlucky and weak with their recent early draft picks as we see one player after another unable to perform on the field or merely flash brightly but briefly before hitting IR. I'm sure there is huge level of frustration with players like Carson, Penny, McDowell, Collier, Blair, and many of the other DBs they tried to make fit without success. The team has had as well an unfortunate lack of success with many of the players they traded for like Harvin, Graham and a few others, lately Adams. It is fair to say that former coordinators on either side of the ball were unable to find ways to use exceptional players to their best abilities. So what can be observed is with square peg round hole use or an inability to correctly use the player, thus even when their is talent here it isn't being correctly used. Is this all on Pete?

I feel bad for KJW, and think he should have been kept but the team was faced with his injury history and his bad knees and choose to try to play several of their younger LBs over him. I do think KNJ was a good coach but not a good DC.

 

[John63]

The Anti-Peters always are alleging that no coordinator for the Hawks ever has any independent authority and are always subservient to PC. Given the amount orf responsibility that thinking would put upon PC they put him in a Superman like status who micro manages every aspect of the team. This is extraordinarily unlikely and inconsistent with past successes achieved by the team.

Ockams Razor would tend to disprove this superman theory. In the end it doesn't matter your view on PC and whether he is a ridiculously meddling micromanager or a coach who doesn't have the personnel to play the type of football he'd prefer to see played. The results from the team defensively have been poor now for the past two seasons with the Hawks simply not having the type of quality D Seattle fans have recently come to expect. The DC has been unable to change the direction of the D with any reliability. Is this all on Pete? I reject that thinking as it fall back into the Superman mentality.

The pass D has been extremely disappointing for a good few years now and changes needed to be made. All in all KNJ is a good coach and a far better LBs coach than he ever was as a DC. Some will blame Pete as the great Satan for all bad things Seahawks with an unremitting view that PeteBall their pergorative for run focused football is crappy ball despite it's physicality and hope for defensive success. This view was almost turned on it's head by the Niners who admittedly have a better D than the Hawks by a huge margin with real DLine personnel superiority but played PeteBall and got to the championship round doing it.

To me truth is the Hawks have been very unlucky and weak with their recent early draft picks as we see one player after another unable to perform on the field or merely flash brightly but briefly before hitting IR. I'm sure there is huge level of frustration with players like Carson, Penny, McDowell, Collier, Blair, and many of the other DBs they tried to make fit without success. The team has had as well an unfortunate lack of success with many of the players they traded for like Harvin, Graham and a few others, lately Adams. It is fair to say that former coordinators on either side of the ball were unable to find ways to use exceptional players to their best abilities. So what can be observed is with square peg round hole use or an inability to correctly use the player, thus even when their is talent here it isn't being correctly used. Is this all on Pete?

Yes, he only answers to the owner he has full control. and KJ and others have made it pretty clear. and PCs own words Let me remind people and it is posted in this forum someplace, right after the first game PC said he was not that happy with the offense. Shortly after in another interview he said he and Waldron talked and Waldron knows what we want. Think about all of this KJ had been with the Hawks forever don't you think he would know? Also, we heard it from Olsen as well.

That aside if he has complete control which he does then it all stops and starts with him. You want to say it's the other coaches fine but who hires them? PC, you want to say it's Wilson or other players? Fine but who got them and kept them? PC. When you put yourself in the position of this much power it all starts and stops with you, period.

 

[Jville]

The Anti-Peters always are alleging that no coordinator for the Hawks ever has any independent authority and are always subservient to PC. Given the amount orf responsibility that thinking would put upon PC they put him in a Superman like status who micro manages every aspect of the team. This is extraordinarily unlikely and inconsistent with past successes achieved by the team.

Ockams Razor would tend to disprove this superman theory. In the end it doesn't matter your view on PC and whether he is a ridiculously meddling micromanager or a coach who doesn't have the personnel to play the type of football he'd prefer to see played. The results from the team defensively have been poor now for the past two seasons with the Hawks simply not having the type of quality D Seattle fans have recently come to expect. The DC has been unable to change the direction of the D with any reliability. Is this all on Pete? I reject that thinking as it fall back into the Superman mentality.

The pass D has been extremely disappointing for a good few years now and changes needed to be made. All in all KNJ is a good coach and a far better LBs coach than he ever was as a DC. Some will blame Pete as the great Satan for all bad things Seahawks with an unremitting view that PeteBall their pergorative for run focused football is crappy ball despite it's physicality and hope for defensive success. This view was almost turned on it's head by the Niners who admittedly have a better D than the Hawks by a huge margin with real DLine personnel superiority but played PeteBall and got to the championship round doing it.

To me truth is the Hawks have been very unlucky and weak with their recent early draft picks as we see one player after another unable to perform on the field or merely flash brightly but briefly before hitting IR. I'm sure there is huge level of frustration with players like Carson, Penny, McDowell, Collier, Blair, and many of the other DBs they tried to make fit without success. The team has had as well an unfortunate lack of success with many of the players they traded for like Harvin, Graham and a few others, lately Adams. It is fair to say that former coordinators on either side of the ball were unable to find ways to use exceptional players to their best abilities. So what can be observed is with square peg round hole use or an inability to correctly use the player, thus even when their is talent here it isn't being correctly used. Is this all on Pete?

I feel bad for KJW, and think he should have been kept but the team was faced with his injury history and his bad knees and choose to try to play several of their younger LBs over him. I do think KNJ was a good coach but not a good DC.

I would add .............. that there has been little to nothing about the firing of Defensive Passing Game Coordinator Andre Curtis. Given that he was brought in as a safeties coach back in 2015 before becoming the passing game coordinator, there is a lot we don't know about his recent release and connection to that of Ken Norton Jr. And, given the considerable struggles of the defensive backfield in 2021, that represents a big hole in our knowledge of what transpired.

 

[toffee]

Sounded like Ken Norton Jr. might function better as a HC than a DC, his record point to not being a XO genius or mad scientist, he record and reputation also indicated that guys go extra miles for him. May be KNJ could restart his coaching by trying to be hired as HC of some college program and go from there. lol, KJ Wright could be his DC.

 

[LTH]

The Anti-Peters always are alleging that no coordinator for the Hawks ever has any independent authority and are always subservient to PC. Given the amount orf responsibility that thinking would put upon PC they put him in a Superman like status who micro manages every aspect of the team. This is extraordinarily unlikely and inconsistent with past successes achieved by the team.

Ockams Razor would tend to disprove this superman theory. In the end it doesn't matter your view on PC and whether he is a ridiculously meddling micromanager or a coach who doesn't have the personnel to play the type of football he'd prefer to see played. The results from the team defensively have been poor now for the past two seasons with the Hawks simply not having the type of quality D Seattle fans have recently come to expect. The DC has been unable to change the direction of the D with any reliability. Is this all on Pete? I reject that thinking as it fall back into the Superman mentality.

The pass D has been extremely disappointing for a good few years now and changes needed to be made. All in all KNJ is a good coach and a far better LBs coach than he ever was as a DC. Some will blame Pete as the great Satan for all bad things Seahawks with an unremitting view that PeteBall their pergorative for run focused football is crappy ball despite it's physicality and hope for defensive success. This view was almost turned on it's head by the Niners who admittedly have a better D than the Hawks by a huge margin with real DLine personnel superiority but played PeteBall and got to the championship round doing it.

To me truth is the Hawks have been very unlucky and weak with their recent early draft picks as we see one player after another unable to perform on the field or merely flash brightly but briefly before hitting IR. I'm sure there is huge level of frustration with players like Carson, Penny, McDowell, Collier, Blair, and many of the other DBs they tried to make fit without success. The team has had as well an unfortunate lack of success with many of the players they traded for like Harvin, Graham and a few others, lately Adams. It is fair to say that former coordinators on either side of the ball were unable to find ways to use exceptional players to their best abilities. So what can be observed is with square peg round hole use or an inability to correctly use the player, thus even when their is talent here it isn't being correctly used. Is this all on Pete?

Yes, he only answers to the owner he has full control. and KJ and others have made it pretty clear. and PCs own words Let me remind people and it is posted in this forum someplace, right after the first game PC said he was not that happy with the offense. Shortly after in another interview he said he and Waldron talked and Waldron knows what we want. Think about all of this KJ had been with the Hawks forever don't you think he would know? Also, we heard it from Olsen as well.

That aside if he has complete control which he does then it all stops and starts with him. You want to say it's the other coaches fine but who hires them? PC, you want to say it's Wilson or other players? Fine but who got them and kept them? PC. When you put yourself in the position of this much power it all starts and stops with you, period.

I agree with Jammerhawk.

I think it's still unclear how much Pete goes beyond an initial frame work of what he wants to see. I think he wants to see development of his coaches and coordinators and him self for that matter. I think the most likely scenario is that most of the time they work together to create a game plan. I don't think KJ made it completely clear other than saying Pete has the final say over game planning.. IMO that's the way it should be.

all this pod cast did was give us a glimpse inside I don't think it gave a clear picture of what's going on. I also think KJ was hurt by the Seahawks not letting him retire a Seahawk and I also think KJ has a clear bias towards Norton.


LTH