Jimmy G

[Marvin49]

It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

8)

For the record...

I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.

 

[Marvin49]

Game 2 of preseason, it don't mean a thing. They basically have 6 or 7 plays they run so I'm not expecting spectacular.

I do see some positives overall, 8 qtrs of play only allowing 1 TD, and moving the ball and scoring from the red zone.

Yeah, lost in the haze of Jimmy G, the run game has looked great, the defense has played really well, The punter might be one of the best hitters on the team (lol), the entire rookie class looks good, in particular the WRs, and even Solomon Thomas is showing signs of life.

The D line is getting all kinds of pressure, and Ford, Bosa, and Buckner have yet to play a down.

 

[Maulbert]

It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

8)

For the record...

I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.

[youtube]PGNiXGX2nLU[/youtube]

 

[Marvin49]

It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

8)

For the record...

I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.

[youtube]PGNiXGX2nLU[/youtube]

How original.

What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction.

In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want. Either I'll be wrong and several of you will hold it over me as evidence that I'm a homer or I'll be right and everyone here will give me no credit for being so (like, say, when I said I thought Harvin and Graham were bad trades). Its the way of .net. No worries.

 

[Maulbert]

It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

8)

For the record...

I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.

[youtube]PGNiXGX2nLU[/youtube]

How original.

What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction.

In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.

I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

 

[Marvin49]

For the record...

I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.

[youtube]PGNiXGX2nLU[/youtube]

How original.

What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction.

In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.

I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.

 

[Maulbert]

How original.

What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction.

In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.

I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.

Marvin, you're not a fool. I know that, but you twist yourself into knots to try to convince people you know you will never convince. It's a sisyphean task, and yet you do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You'd rather do that than admit you're even mildly a homer. I'm a homer, too. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't know if it's pride or something else, but it is highly entertaining.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.
-Marvin

I’m not saying he’s going to be your franchise QB, but I think he’ll be better than Jimmy GQ.
I think Mullens though is better than the JGQ fanboys think he is.

 

[Sports Hernia]

How original.

What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction.

In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.

I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.

Marvin, you're not a fool. I know that, but you twist yourself into knots to try to convince people you know you will never convince. It's a sisyphean task, and yet you do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You'd rather do that than admit you're even mildly a homer. I'm a homer, too. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't know if it's pride or something else, but it is highly entertaining.

Ive actually grown to like Marvin a little. Used to not like him at all. He’s grown on me.

He’ll spin and dodge a bit, and won’t admit he’s wrong much, but he’s harmless.

I believe he actually believes what he posts, some of the other Niner fans here, not so much.

At least he’s NOT the guy who claims JGQ had “no fatal flaws” last year.

Shit, I just kind of defended a Niner fan!!!! I feel so dirty!!!! 8)

 

[chris98251]

Colin Grab a ho,

Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Colin Grab a ho,

Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.

Yep, though most Niner fans won’t admit it.

 

[rlkats]

Colin Grab a ho,

Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.

Yep, though most Niner fans won’t admit it.

Unfortunately, until we get a true franchise QB this will always be the song and dance. The one thing I think is funny as hell. Some people are talking about the money and how he makes to much. I did that one time and got obliterated by hawk fans, over saying some players make to much. Oh well. Jimmy does need to perform or get out the door bottom line.

 

[Marvin49]

How original.

What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction.

In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.

I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.

Marvin, you're not a fool. I know that, but you twist yourself into knots to try to convince people you know you will never convince. It's a sisyphean task, and yet you do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You'd rather do that than admit you're even mildly a homer. I'm a homer, too. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't know if it's pride or something else, but it is highly entertaining.

1) Extra points for using sisyphean.
2) I don't think I denied being a homer.
3) I know the quest is hopeless, yet I proceed anyway. It's a sickness.
4) In all seriousness, I'm not trying to convince as I know only those who who are open to being convinced can be convinced and that is a hopeless endeavor on any opposing teams board.

I simply state what I think and why I think it. The rest is up to someone else.

 

[Marvin49]

Colin Grab a ho,

Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.

It had occurred to me. As another poster said above, this could be another "lightning in a bottle" situation like it was with Kap, but I don't think so. I see the parallels for sure, but the the skill sets are completely different and Jimmys lend themselves to long term success much more than Kaps did.

That's not to say that he won't flame out the way Kap did (and the reasons for why I think that happened is another conversation entirely), but I don't think so.

I think what is funniest to me is that all of this Drama is effectively about 11 throws. 11. 5 INTs in a single practice and 6 passes in a Preseason game. I will really be concerned if he plays like he did on Monday in a real game. Until then its just fan and media fodder.

 

[Popeyejones]

In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

I suspect you and I might be two of the only people who care, but to be fair:

I agree that although he wasn't good, he didn't play as poorly as his stats suggested he did in Week 1. At the same time though, although he wasn't bad, he didn't play as well as his stats suggested in Week 2 (in particular) and Week 3.

I just can't in good conscience spend years here arguing that Wilson is responsible for a ton of the sacks he takes (which the analytics community has finally formally caught up with re: O-line, QBs, and sacks), and then celebrate JGQ's passing stats in weeks 2 and 3 last year without acknowledging that he was responsible for a TON of sacks that don't show up in those stats (particularly in week 2).

 

[Popeyejones]

Colin Grab a ho,

Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.

It had occurred to me. As another poster said above, this could be another "lightning in a bottle" situation like it was with Kap, but I don't think so. I see the parallels for sure, but the the skill sets are completely different and Jimmys lend themselves to long term success much more than Kaps did.

That's not to say that he won't flame out the way Kap did (and the reasons for why I think that happened is another conversation entirely), but I don't think so.

I think what is funniest to me is that all of this Drama is effectively about 11 throws. 11. 5 INTs in a single practice and 6 passes in a Preseason game. I will really be concerned if he plays like he did on Monday in a real game. Until then its just fan and media fodder.

The problem is that small sample sizes are small sample sizes, so people can take them and say "it's another _____", with the fill-in-the-blank being whatever they want to get to their desired conclusion.

EXAMPLE:

"After he had half a great season everyone thought he really had it, which was [insert "incorrect" or "correct"], ya know just like [if "incorrect" insert "Colin Kaepernick; if "correct" insert "Patrick Mahomes"].


ANOTHER EXAMPLE:

Would you rather have your QB throw 5 ints in a summer practice or throw 4 ints in the NFC Championship Game? If you're at all reasonable you'll pick the first one, BUT ZOMG THAT MEANS RUSSELL WILSON SUCKS!$#@()#$*(@#


The point is that trying to derive long-term outcomes out of small samples sizes is just a flawed endeavor from the start, as it allows people to pick and choose the future trajectory they want in order to get to their desired conclusion through "an example" that was backloaded in from the start.

 

[Marvin49]

In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

I suspect you and I might be two of the only people who care, but to be fair:

I agree that although he wasn't good, he didn't play as poorly as his stats suggested he did in Week 1. At the same time though, although he wasn't bad, he didn't play as well as his stats suggested in Week 2 (in particular) and Week 3.

I just can't in good conscience spend years here arguing that Wilson is responsible for a ton of the sacks he takes (which the analytics community has finally formally caught up with re: O-line, QBs, and sacks), and then celebrate JGQ's passing stats in weeks 2 and 3 last year without acknowledging that he was responsible for a TON of sacks that don't show up in those stats (particularly in week 2).

I actually referenced those sacks in that post. I agree with you. There were several instances, particularly vs DET when he held the ball. I think that's directly related to still learning Kyles system, trying to get through his reads, and not just winging it like he did in year one when there where times when he didn't even know who the second read was.

This is what I'm talking about. This is an article about Shanahan/Ryan from 2015:

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2015/12/1/9820316/kyle-shanahan-quarterback-killer

"The passing offense has been been atrocious for weeks. Turnovers, inaccurate throws, and predictability have haunted this team. While Atlanta's supporting cast could use some improvement, the passing offense has taken a decidedly swift step back since last year. How can a Pro Bowl quarterback and a Pro Bowl wide receiver look so ordinary, so quickly?

In my opinion, the problem has to originate with one of either two people: QB Matt Ryan or OC Kyle Shanahan.

Simply put, Ryan is having his worst year as a pro. He looks uncomfortable playing, and his mechanics have been a mess all season."


"That is not to say that Ryan does not deserve blame for the state of the offense. His decision-making has been terrible. His deep ball has been laughable. He looks as if he has regressed, painfully so. He is either falling apart at an irregularly early time in his career, or he is being forced into an offensive scheme that doesn't match his strengths."

That was with Ryan getting a full offseason AND about as many starts as Jimmy G has gotten as a 49er. Ryan also didn't get hurt. Mullens IMO has looked good because he's been in the offense for 3 years now.

This isn't meant as an excuse for poor play, though I'm sure that's how it will be read. What I'm saying is that its all a process and it takes time. He didn't even get his year one learning season because of the ACL, so I think he'll struggle (IE I'm not excusing past play, I'm saying he will CONTINUE to struggle) and at some point the light bulb will go on. Thats what I think will happen anyway, but its all predicated on him staying healthy.

I'm just sayin, Ryan became a league MVP the next year after this was written. It doesn't happen overnight and Jimmys play in 2017 made everyone think he'd return an expert on the Shanahan system. I think he just needs to stay upright, and play through the mistakes and he'll eventually have the level of proficiency in the system that Ryan did (and I'm talking about understanding, not saying he'll be league MVP).

Additionally, it should be noted that Jimmy wasn't the only one out there making mistakes. The complexity and newness of the O was wreaking havok with the young receivers as well and that is why that continues to be a concern for me this year with youngsters Samuel and Hurd.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Um, at least two of those picks were on Kearse :roll:
And Russ flat out brought his team back from a 16 point deficit with 5 minutes left. I wonder if pretty boy could come close to doing something like that.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ Agreed with what you're saying, but this is also kinda the reverse of what Chris is doing also.

"Well Kaepernick looked good for a year and then he sucked" isn't really that different far off from "Well Matt Ryan looked bad in this offense for a year and then looked great in it for a year."

And I know I'm engaging in the same small sample size meaning making and dime story psychoanalyzing that I'm always arguing against, but I do *kinda* suspect that part of what's going on is JG isn't nearly as even keeled as he comes off and as Shanahan keeps insisting he is.

By that, I mean that last year he got shook by the picks in week 1, and then was afraid to the throw the ball and took a ton of sacks in week 2. After the two first throws last night he also seemed pretty shook to me and deep in his feelings -- there was not point leaving him in longer because he was already shot.

He comes ACROSS as very even keeled -- let's be honest, he comes across like a total handsome idiot type -- but I'm also more open to the possibility that he actually isn't than I was before, and that I've just confused his lack of personality and frat boy dopiness with him being even keeled and not getting stuck in his feelings to the detriment of his play.

That IS something that I think very much happened with Kaepernick when things were going bad.

 

[Popeyejones]

Um, at least two of those picks were on Kearse :roll:
And Russ flat out brought his team back from a 16 point deficit with 5 minutes left. I wonder if pretty boy could come close to doing something like that.

Just in case there's confusion, my point was that trying to make a statement about Wilson as a QB as based on throwing four picks in an NFCCG is a BAD ARGUMENT

In defending him it seems like you think you're disagreeing with me when you're actually agreeing with me.

I know folks get touchy about St. Russ, but trust me, we're agreeing with each other.