Jesse Williams

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seabowl

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billio155":25v47q96 said:
They traded up for Simon, not Williams. I can see them putting Williams on IR. His knee is bulky and he really needs and off-season to build strength in his legs and trunk. When you watch him play he looks fine when he stays low to the ground, the problem is all of his strength is in his upper body and offensive linemen just need to get under and into his pads to lift him up, once he is lifted he is often thrown to the ground. I noted all this in an earlier thread called "I don't think Jesse Williams will make the team."

Incorrect. They traded up for Williams. I don't see his frame able to build up his legs much. He is what he is.
 

McG

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Hey Stoned, I agree with your observations. The problem with grabbing SEC talent in the late rounds is the fact that it's the best conference in football. Therefore the majority of NFL teams will be scouting their teams due to the amazing amount of talent, which equals less hidden gems. The ACC and Pac-12 are both under scouted and it's a lot easier to find undervalued talent. Personally, I'd say say away from the SEC unless there's an obvious talent to be picked up.
 

Basis4day

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Stoned Cold":19waa3x9 said:
We might want to stop paying our scout who watches SEC Football. Carpenter, Simon, Williams, Kris Durham, Levingston and even Jay Howard all have under achieved. KJ Wright is the only guy they hit on. And before people start talking about it being too early, well let me explain....

Simon is a self entitled prima dona. He doesn't work hard and has gotten this far by god given talent. The strength coach wouldn't even talk about him and put him on a list of guys who were lazy while at LSU. His arrest, I don't even care because it's Simon being Simon. From what I hear the cop was just trying to break up a loud social event. It didn't help that Simon wasn't compliant though. Just showed his self entitlement.

Carpenter has been here 3 years and has never been in game shape. Still isn't.

Williams is over rated. He was actually pretty mediocre at Alabama but was surrounded by so much talent he got 1 on 1's and did okay. Nothing special. His fan claim to fame was playing fullback in short yardage situations. Never was dominant and I laughed at people on this message board who became huge fanboys. Yet, Jordan Hill and his athleticism and desire was being overlooked.

Durham was the consummate 1 hit wonder. He wasn't proven. Played like 5 good games in 4 years or so. Just a freak of nature athlete like Konz.

Howard is almost the same as Durham. He still has potential because of Quinn. He may shape into a role player some day. Thats a big MAYBE though.

Whatever happened to that guy Pep Levingston? I don't even think that dude started at LSU? I live in Louisiana and barely heard of him.

Whoever is the SEC Scout is gets a "D". KJ saves his bacon from being an F bomb.

Carpenter: Late first rounder and has been injured his entire pro-career. Never injured in College. How was the scouting dept. supposed to predict that?

Simon: 5th rounder on a team loaded at CB and hasn't had a chance to to show anything because of injury. He's a rookie, there hasn't been a chance to achieve anything. Most 5th rounders don't pan out players like Sherman and Kam are the exception. You pointed out his name on the LSU lazy weight room list. Spencer Ware was also on that list and has made the most of his opportunities in preseason game and has a pretty good shot at making this team.

Williams: 5th Rounder. Nagging injuries. He was advertised as a project before the draft. Plenty of raw talent, but needs to learn technique. In other words, you need to let him develop. Expecting anything after game 2 of the preseason is wishful thinking, especially at a non-sexy position like DT.

Levingston: 7th round pick. They're 7th rounders. How can they under-perform? Making the team is over-performing for them.

Durham: 4th rounder. Injured in college, injured in the pros. Worth the risk, didn't work out. We got KJ in that draft, so our SEC scouts scored a hit. We also got Sherman, Maxwell and Smith in the later rounds and they far exceeded expectations.

Jaye Howard: 4th rounder. Wasn't active much last year, but as a 4th rounder i'm not sure what you were expecting. Some people need to be inactive on game day. Just a reality.

With the exception of Carp who has been plagued by injuries all your examples have been later round picks. I don't really understand how you can call them under-performing when they are drafted in later rounds for a reason. Not all draft picks in the NFL become pro-bowlers and most players only last 3-4 seasons. For most of the players on your list, making the team is an accomplishment in itself. I can't call that under-performing. Now, you did mention that KJ was a solid pick-up. Personally i think the scouting department deserves a lot of credit for this pick in that he replaced the sure fire thing in Aaron Curry from the previous FO.

I think it needs to be mention, though obvious, that we can't just draft any player we want. We're competing against every other team that knows the SEC. You don't know what players he had pegged before they were swooped up by other teams and it's misleading to think that a scouting department deserves a "D" when you don't know how they valued the entire pool of players.
 

Missing_Clink

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seabowl":4ov01iei said:
billio155":4ov01iei said:
They traded up for Simon, not Williams. I can see them putting Williams on IR. His knee is bulky and he really needs and off-season to build strength in his legs and trunk. When you watch him play he looks fine when he stays low to the ground, the problem is all of his strength is in his upper body and offensive linemen just need to get under and into his pads to lift him up, once he is lifted he is often thrown to the ground. I noted all this in an earlier thread called "I don't think Jesse Williams will make the team."

Incorrect. They traded up for Williams. I don't see his frame able to build up his legs much. He is what he is.

They traded up for Simon, but it doesn't really matter at this point
 

Sarlacc83

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seesurfers":2nivy70i said:
I just LOVE the cultural shift brought on by Schneider and company. Not only do we now expect 5th rounders to start, but we want them to dominate by game 2 of preseason! I almost feel sorry for the other 31 teams come draft day.

The Cleveland Browns have had a bad habit of drafting 5th round players in the 1st, haven't they? Who's the Schneider on your team?
 

CANHawk

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Sarlacc83":zxyr0cs1 said:
seesurfers":zxyr0cs1 said:
I just LOVE the cultural shift brought on by Schneider and company. Not only do we now expect 5th rounders to start, but we want them to dominate by game 2 of preseason! I almost feel sorry for the other 31 teams come draft day.

The Cleveland Browns have had a bad habit of drafting 5th round players in the 1st, haven't they? Who's the Schneider on your team?


HIYOOOO!!!
 

Basis4day

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Missing_Clink":1jevhcqq said:
seabowl":1jevhcqq said:
billio155":1jevhcqq said:
They traded up for Simon, not Williams. I can see them putting Williams on IR. His knee is bulky and he really needs and off-season to build strength in his legs and trunk. When you watch him play he looks fine when he stays low to the ground, the problem is all of his strength is in his upper body and offensive linemen just need to get under and into his pads to lift him up, once he is lifted he is often thrown to the ground. I noted all this in an earlier thread called "I don't think Jesse Williams will make the team."

Incorrect. They traded up for Williams. I don't see his frame able to build up his legs much. He is what he is.

They traded up for Simon, but it doesn't really matter at this point

It was Williams. We got the Simon pick from the Aaron Curry trade. Oakland traded the spot Simon was picked along with their 2012 seventh-round selection to Seattle in exchange for linebacker Aaron Curry.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201304 ... /130429852

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/04/2 ... -in-fifth/
 

Missing_Clink

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Basis4day":1aw4micw said:
It was Williams. We got the Simon pick from the Aaron Curry trade. Oakland traded the spot Simon was picked along with their 2012 seventh-round selection to Seattle in exchange for linebacker Aaron Curry.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201304 ... /130429852

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/04/2 ... -in-fifth/

It was Simon. There is another article that drives the point home more than this one, but I couldn't find it. Anyways:

On trading up to get CB Tharold Simon and DT Jesse Williams with back-to-back picks: (note, this was Schneider's first trade that involved moving up, not back) "Quite frankly we had a player who fits exactly what we are looking for in the corner position, and we didn’t feel like he would make it to us the next time, so we just wanted to go ahead and give it a shot."

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201304 ... /130429828

JS made it clear Simon was the target they had to have there (also in another interview...might have seen that on Seahawks Draft Blog), and thus the trade
 

Basis4day

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Missing_Clink":dws1ppz3 said:
JS made it clear Simon was the target they had to have there (also in another interview...might have seen that on Seahawks Draft Blog), and thus the trade

I don't think that quote means what you think it means. I read that as they couldn't wait a full round after trading up to get Williams to not pick Simon. Look at this quote:

http://seattletimes.com/avantgo/2020876201.html

In all seriousness, though, Williams has a chance to be the best value pick of this Seahawks draft. When Schneider saw Williams was available, he traded up in the fifth round to make sure the tackle became a Seahawk.

"For us, he was sitting alone," Schneider said of Williams' place on the Seahawks' draft board.

Williams was sitting alone on their board, hence they traded up and selected him before Simon.
 

billio155

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No, you are incorrect...do some research. They traded up for Simon.
 

Basis4day

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billio155":35puyflx said:
No, you are incorrect...do some research. They traded up for Simon.

Pretty sure i did my research. Show me a quote where it says they traded up to get Simon, believe me i'm trying. Clink's Herald quote is close, but they did use the first pick on Williams and not Simon. The Brewer article flat out states that Williams was sitting above everyone on their board.
 

DavidSeven

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I specifically remember either PC or JS saying they didn't think Simon would last until the sixth, so they moved up to grab him. Not sure why it really matters. They obviously wanted both guys in the fifth.
 

jlwaters1

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billio155":2l27422x said:
No, you are incorrect...do some research. They traded up for Simon.

and yet they use that PICK on WIlliams. It's kind of irrelevant.

If they were trading up for Simon why wasn he not taken with that pick?

I think what happened is they see that WIlliams is sitting all alone on their board and decided to trade up to get BOTH players. They could have not traded up but ran the risk of missing Simon, because they were dead set of taking Williams because of his position on the draft board.
 

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kf3339":3ht2weyu said:
He just needs a year of true coaching both in the gym and on the field. We pretty much sat Howard last year and rarely activated him, so we can do the same with Williams.

But I do think if his knee is an issue they may very well IR him for the year to save a spot for someone else. But I really don't see them giving up on him this soon at all.
You beat me to it kf, PC & JS drafted Williams for his potential up-side.
He's a rook and hasn't had enough time to take it all in yet.
It's silly to expect him to come from College play and be NFL ready to dominate, right from the get-go
 

Basis4day

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DavidSeven":paurebay said:
I specifically remember either PC or JS saying they didn't think Simon would last until the sixth, so they moved up to grab him. Not sure why it really matters. They obviously wanted both guys in the fifth.

It doesn't matter, but i enjoy researching quotes like this. I would still like to see a quote on Simon. It doesn't matter to me if i need to be corrected, so if you find it i'm interested.
 

billio155

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Hmmmm...just did some internet searches and I think you are correct. My assumption came from J.S.'s post draft interview. He made it sound as though Simon was the target all along. Very confusing.
 

bestfightstory

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Basis4day":3oxg9wsc said:
DavidSeven":3oxg9wsc said:
I specifically remember either PC or JS saying they didn't think Simon would last until the sixth, so they moved up to grab him. Not sure why it really matters. They obviously wanted both guys in the fifth.

It doesn't matter, but i enjoy researching quotes like this. I would still like to see a quote on Simon. It doesn't matter to me if i need to be corrected, so if you find it i'm interested.


There is SO DAMN MUCH that is INCORRECT in our world, today, that I am glad to see the two of you doing your part to reduce some of that incorrectness.
 

Stoned Cold

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Basis4day":3f8if3ck said:
Carpenter: Late first rounder and has been injured his entire pro-career. Never injured in College. How was the scouting dept. supposed to predict that?

Simon: 5th rounder on a team loaded at CB and hasn't had a chance to to show anything because of injury. He's a rookie, there hasn't been a chance to achieve anything. Most 5th rounders don't pan out players like Sherman and Kam are the exception. You pointed out his name on the LSU lazy weight room list. Spencer Ware was also on that list and has made the most of his opportunities in preseason game and has a pretty good shot at making this team.

Williams: 5th Rounder. Nagging injuries. He was advertised as a project before the draft. Plenty of raw talent, but needs to learn technique. In other words, you need to let him develop. Expecting anything after game 2 of the preseason is wishful thinking, especially at a non-sexy position like DT.

Levingston: 7th round pick. They're 7th rounders. How can they under-perform? Making the team is over-performing for them.

Durham: 4th rounder. Injured in college, injured in the pros. Worth the risk, didn't work out. We got KJ in that draft, so our SEC scouts scored a hit. We also got Sherman, Maxwell and Smith in the later rounds and they far exceeded expectations.

Jaye Howard: 4th rounder. Wasn't active much last year, but as a 4th rounder i'm not sure what you were expecting. Some people need to be inactive on game day. Just a reality.

With the exception of Carp who has been plagued by injuries all your examples have been later round picks. I don't really understand how you can call them under-performing when they are drafted in later rounds for a reason. Not all draft picks in the NFL become pro-bowlers and most players only last 3-4 seasons. For most of the players on your list, making the team is an accomplishment in itself. I can't call that under-performing. Now, you did mention that KJ was a solid pick-up. Personally i think the scouting department deserves a lot of credit for this pick in that he replaced the sure fire thing in Aaron Curry from the previous FO.

I think it needs to be mention, though obvious, that we can't just draft any player we want. We're competing against every other team that knows the SEC. You don't know what players he had pegged before they were swooped up by other teams and it's misleading to think that a scouting department deserves a "D" when you don't know how they valued the entire pool of players.

Just sounds like a bunch of excuses. As for Carpenters injuries. It has a lot to do with weight issues. He looks heavier to me than he did at Alabama. He's definitely not as athletic. When I saw his picture on Seahawks.com signing his contract, I said to myself....this dude has just been eating and getting fat during the lock out. I don't think he's ever recovered.

Simon, as you pointed out hasn't proven anything. You say injuries. I say lazy and self entitled. Pot smoking boy from Eunice. Not too far from where I'm at. I've heard all about him. Listen...kid has all the ability but unlike Ware he doesn't want it. Ware I didn't add to my list because I think he may very well become something. He's a team guy like Michael Robinson. he will probably be a practice squad guy this season, but next year he will compete for the fullback job. I know his desire. Ware's desire is a 10, Simons desire is a 5.

Durham and Howard picks are 4th's. They are meaningful picks contrary to what you think. And neither was worthy. They were total crap shoots based on 4 years of showing nothing much. I would be willing though to shift some of the blame on the Howard pick to Dan Quinn. Nobody knew Howard better than Quinn. He coached him.

I'll stop after this cuz its not worth it. I guarantee you Williams will never be the player he was hyped around here. In fact I guarantee he never see's a 2nd contract from our Seahawks. And it won't be all about injury problems. I thought he might just be a bit raw like Isaac Sopoaga was comming out of Hawaii because they are so similar in the bench, size, limited football background, and over sea's roots....but nah, He can only aspire to be as good as Isaac Soap. And thats not much.

I'm brutally honest and I refuse to make excuses by the marginal SEC talented players we draft.

Like I said Wright and Ware I think were great picks. Wright especially. He's a baller and even better than I thought. The rest I shook my head at. You can't draft like 8 players...1 in the 1st, 3 4th's, and a couple in the 5th and 6th and only come away with 1 quality player for sure and tell me that it wasn't anything but a D. Thats a Tim Ruskell draft.

To sum it up though maybe this is no big deal. The regional scout of the southeast was the guy who retired this year who has ALS. A new guy who was the Chiefs top scout has now taken the job as our southeast area scout (Nagy) I believe. He has years of experience, worked with Schneider in Green Bay and had risen to a major role with the Chiefs before they cleaned house. I hope he does better, I have faith in our front office. Just the guy who was scouting the SEC before wasn't doing us any favors. He was a Seahawk lifer, been with us for 22 years I think and he hadn't found any gems under the new regime of Carroll/Schneider. In fact Ed Dodds is the guy I think who scouted Wright when he was at Mississippi.
 

Blitzer88

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Jesse needs to step his game up a lot the next few games, have not liked what I have seen from him so far.
 
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