Is the Hurry-Up The Cure For What Ails The Seahawks Offense?

[Smellyman]

Is the hurry-up offense working because its hurry up or is it working because Wilson is calling the plays?

Both.

Less chance of Bevell having input the better.

Although he is busy scheming, 9ers won't know what's coming.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Once again, a Football 101 lesson: You know those speakers they have in quarterback helmets? Well even in the hurry-up, they are in use. Also, Russ isn't out there drawing plays in the dirt, so even if he checks into an audible, it's still a play devised by Bevell and his staff and worked on in gameplan, walk-thrus and practice.

Now back to your Madden or Techno Bowl games where you guys find all your answers.

 

[IrishNW]

Once again, a Football 101 lesson: You know those speakers they have in quarterback helmets? Well even in the hurry-up, they are in use. Also, Russ isn't out there drawing plays in the dirt, so even if he checks into an audible, it's still a play devised by Bevell and his staff and worked on in gameplan, walk-thrus and practice.

Now back to your Madden or Techno Bowl games where you guys find all your answers.

Russ calls his own plays during the hurry up, he said it in a interview. now go back to your Bevell anime porn

 

[Siouxhawk]

Once again, a Football 101 lesson: You know those speakers they have in quarterback helmets? Well even in the hurry-up, they are in use. Also, Russ isn't out there drawing plays in the dirt, so even if he checks into an audible, it's still a play devised by Bevell and his staff and worked on in gameplan, walk-thrus and practice.

Now back to your Madden or Techno Bowl games where you guys find all your answers.

Russ calls his own plays during the hurry up, he said it in a interview. now go back to your Bevell anime porn

I'm not disbelieving that Russ doesn't have the capability to do that, but I'm hesitant to believe that he's not being communicated to by Bevell. And keep your juvenile remarks to yourself.

 

[LickMyNuts]

Why in the hell cant the offense adjust to a defensive lineman who is absolutely killing us on offense.

Put a running back in the backfield and have him help block or double team him.

How do you not see that 76 is winning the game on defense all by himself. We might as well run a faster offense if we are unable to adjust to what the defense is taking away.

 

[AgentDib]

I'm all for keeping the defense off balance. That means varying our tempo on occasion, and always getting to the line early enough that Russ has time to work the snap count like a veteran. We snap the ball with 0-1 seconds left way too often for the experience level on our offense.

It's hard to directly estimate how much benefit we get from the no huddle because we tend to use it in situations where we are trailing in games. You would expect our output to be a lot higher as a result as we throw caution to the wind and Russ chucks it. Opposing defenses are simultaneously playing to limit the big plays and so Russ chucking it often moves us down the field picking up first downs.

 

[Hawkscanner]

During our playoff game against them, Chuck Knox had defensive players fall on the ground to slow it down.

I suspect that's what our D-line was doing last Sunday.

Trick Knee Nash 4 Lyfe.

My father STILL laughs about that game. How many times did Nash go down in the last 2-3 minutes? Must have been 3 or 4 times. We were out of time outs, so even though I was still fairly young, I knew exactly what was happening as well. Great memories. :lol:

 

[Hawkscanner]

I'm all for keeping the defense off balance. That means varying our tempo on occasion, and always getting to the line early enough that Russ has time to work the snap count like a veteran. We snap the ball with 0-1 seconds left way too often for the experience level on our offense.

It's hard to directly estimate how much benefit we get from the no huddle because we tend to use it in situations where we are trailing in games. You would expect our output to be a lot higher as a result as we throw caution to the wind and Russ chucks it. Opposing defenses are simultaneously playing to limit the big plays and so Russ chucking it often moves us down the field picking up first downs.

Absolutely. And as Ivotuk said above (referencing Matt Hasselbeck's 710 conversation that I linked in my first post), eliminating the playbook can actually help -- IN ADDITION to going hurry up at times.

Also, as Hasselbeck also mentioned -- CADENCE. Cadence is HUGE ... especially on the road. If the QB is always going on 1 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell when to go. The defense always gets a jump if the QB never varies it up, going on 2 ... or giving an extra "hut" or something in there. That's one thing I can fault Russell for because he has a tendency to get into that rut where he is doing the same cadence ... each and every time. On the flip side, look at Aaron Rodgers in that game. How many times did he get our DL (Michael Bennett IIRC) to jump offsides via cadence?

AND add to that, as others have mentioned, you can also design bootlegs, designed rollouts, etc.

It's really about keeping the defense off balance ... and for me, however you can do that, especially on the road vs. a good team -- you do that IMO. Point is there are a lot of things you can do. Let's see if they DO some of them this week.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I know that going no huddle all of the time is probably unwise with the way that the Seahawks are built and the way that Pete Carroll values ball control, taking care of the football, time of possession, and playing hard-tough nosed defense.

In fact, I’d go so far as to say it would be flat out unwise to play hurry up ALL of the time … because that ultimately has adverse effects upon your own defense. I remember full well the Run and Shoot Offense that Mouse Davis popularized, especially as it was run with the Lions of the early 1990s when Barry Sanders was running the ball. Those teams could score in a hurry … and they DID in fact put up a lot of points. BUT, there was also a cost to that kind of offense. One of the problems with that kind of offense (and scoring so quick) is that it didn’t give the defense time enough to rest. So, YES -- the Lions racked up the lot of points … BUT, opposing offenses would often mount comebacks late in the 3rd and 4th Quarter, as the Lions’ defense was just flat out tired out.

I would offer a different take.

Not that I don't disagree that some of these disadvantages could result. And that in general the hurry up is antithetical to how Pete wants to win.

I would however submit that all strategies are bound by the circumstances of each team.

You are right, Detroit suffered mightily on defense. But their defense was largely awful. You know who else ran a hurry up offense? The Jim Kelly Buffalo Bills. They succeeded mightily. Their defense was great (not unlike ours). They didn't suffer at all.

So did Detroit suffer abnormally on defense? Or were they just an average defense that became compromised because of the offenses' strategy? I'd say it's more the latter. If you have a good defense, it shouldn't really matter. And if you have a great defense, then it really shouldn't matter. Seattle has great depth to absorb extra plays on the field.

Speaking of that. Do we even know there will be a substantial leap in the number of defensive snaps?

Seattle is already getting off the field quickly. By virtue of the gross number of 3 and outs. So the 'advantages' of TOP and ball control are already not being realized by our offense.

I'll detail what our standard offensive timing produced. I will omit the punt plays, since even in hurry up, we could milk the clock equally. Green is Hurry up drives:

Drive 1. (14:53 Q1)
3 plays. :41 second TOP

Drive 2: (9:26 Q1)
3 plays. 1:21 TOP

Drive 3: (1:34 Q1)
3 plays. 1:34 TOP

Drive 4: (11:13 Q2)
6 plays. 1 downs conversion 2:10 TOP

Drive 5: (7:12 Q2)
3 plays. :42 TOP

Drive 6: (0:55 Q2)
8 plays. 3 downs conversions :55 TOP

Drive 7: (12:04 Q3)
3 plays. 1:18 TOP

Drive 8: (10:29 Q3)
12 plays. 4 downs converted. 6:06 TOP

Drive 9: (0:17 Q3)
4 plays. 1 down converted. 1:30 TOP

Drive 10: (8:01 Q4)
7 plays. 3 downs converted. 1:40 TOP


The fear of doing a hurry up offense is that you will force your defense to play on the field more plays. But that only manifests itself if a team is equally efficient on offense vis a vis ball control or hurry up. Seattle is simply God awful at ball control. And has been really for all of last year and now game one of this year. But alternatively they've also been better at hurry up consistently.

In looking at our drives, a couple of things really stand out. Hurry up, if it results in even one first down converted, is basically equal to our 3 and out standard offense drives. Further, if we look in more detail of these failed 3 and outs -- we can see very early that Seattle is choosing to run in drives 2, 3 and 4 in an attempt to bleed a bit of TOP clock. The runs are ineffective for purposes of gaining a down conversion.

Seattle can still run the hurry up. And if they get into an unfavorable 3rd down, still have the option to run it with no hope of converting. Doing so is virtually identical in terms of TOP as simply running a standard offense. And while it would seem counter productive to sacrifice a drive in such a manner -- we already do that with the standard offense anyway.

If Seattle is more efficient at running the hurry up, then literally the TOP issue is kind of a wash. It's worth noting too, that if the change in offense results in more scoring -- that also has the net benefit of forcing opponents to throw the ball more to catch up. Resulting in more predictable opposing offenses. Also less TOP that their offense can secure per drive.

Green Bay was able to control the game late. They built a lead. And our offense was unable to create first down conversions. Really, the hurry up offense as it pertains to TOP, or tiring our own defense is a moot point, if the byproduct is that we add more first down conversions and prevent opponents from bleeding clock on leads they are sitting on. If they have to similarly resort to the pass -- that benefits our defense as we have a great secondary and a superior pass rush.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What ails the entire offense?

Nope, hurry up/up tempo can't fix serious systemic major deficiencies like the O-line. But yes installing it more into the offense to not make us so predictable and easy to defend because teams know our line stinks so they pack the box and press cover.

Certainly could use it more often than just end of halves and end of games though.

Might be, but an over eager Defense will bite on voice inflection from the Quarterback, and that has a way of reigning in some of the overanxious but it can't be overused, or the Defense will catch on.
Seems to work pretty well for Rodgers and the like.

Rodgers and Brady are great at it, but even they only use it at certain times.

Btw, we made Rodgers look pretty mortal Sunday well into the 4th quarter before the defense got tired. So good defenses definitely have caught onto how to slow down the hurry up.

 

[Mojambo]

Not necessarily the no huddle, but they should transition to a spread offense asap.

 

[chris98251]

This team using the K gun would be good, not exactly a no huddle but a very high paced scheme.

 

[Hawks46]

There is a difference between no huddle/hurry up and up tempo.

Much of what the Seahawks practiced this preseason was up tempo. You're still going to run the ball. You don't change up your play calls but you make your substitutions quickly and then very quickly get to the line. Then you make those big DLmen sit in their 3 point stance for a good 10 to 15 seconds.

Think Payton Manning getting to the line and sitting behind his center, waving his hands around and making 4 different calls and audibles. This is exactly what we did this preseason. It lets Wilson sit back there and survey the defense. It lets the WR's look at the coverage and get a better picture of what they need to do and get on the same page as the QB.

This is exactly what we need to do. Up tempo is also a different rhythm than most defenses in the NFL are used to seeing. They either see a normal tempo (like we're using) or the no huddle (like the Patriots started out their game vs. the Chiefs with). I'd like to see them uncork it a few times like the first possession of the game or 2nd half, or in the middle of a quarter. Make it unpredictable.

It's the one thing that drives me crazy about Pete and what I love about Bellichick. Pete just wants to line up and beat you (same with Holmgren: we won't trick you, we're going to out execute you). Bellichick is unpredictable and has no problems changing up the game plan week to week and attacking an opponent's weaknesses.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's the one thing that drives me crazy about Pete and what I love about Bellichick. Pete just wants to line up and beat you (same with Holmgren: we won't trick you, we're going to out execute you). Bellichick is unpredictable and has no problems changing up the game plan week to week and attacking an opponent's weaknesses.

Yep, predictability is probably Pete's worst enemy when it comes to his schemes, on both sides of the ball.

His college mentality is still there in the NFL, he just thinks "my athletes are bigger, faster, stronger and tougher than your athletes. So we're going to impose our will and make you quit"

That's fine with this defense most of the time, cause we have 7-8 All Pro's. But it doesn't work on offense, especially without a Marshawn in his prime.

Defensive coordinators are too good now, you gotta be unpredictable and complex in all your schemes and playcalling.

 

[hawk45]

It's the one thing that drives me crazy about Pete and what I love about Bellichick. Pete just wants to line up and beat you (same with Holmgren: we won't trick you, we're going to out execute you). Bellichick is unpredictable and has no problems changing up the game plan week to week and attacking an opponent's weaknesses.

Yep, predictability is probably Pete's worst enemy when it comes to his schemes, on both sides of the ball.

His college mentality is still there in the NFL, he just thinks "my athletes are bigger, faster, stronger and tougher than your athletes. So we're going to impose our will and make you quit"

That's fine with this defense most of the time, cause we have 7-8 All Pro's. But it doesn't work on offense, especially without a Marshawn in his prime.

Defensive coordinators are too good now, you gotta be unpredictable and complex in all your schemes and playcalling.

Circling back to Hawks46's point, it's not just unpredictability and complexity. It's attacking opponent weaknesses, in fact it's more that than either of the other two.

Unpredictability minus the matchup special sauce gets us some of the silly calls that Bevell gets scorched for where he's asking inferior players to execute weakness-on-strength.

In fact, when the matchup ingredient is present you don't even need unpredictability half the time. See Belichick going after Tharold Simon again and again in the Superbowl.