Is Bevell to blame for much of this teams discontent?

[MontanaHawk05]

I can already see where this is going to go. If Sherman ends up with another team, it's all going to be placed at the feet of Bevell and the one play call. Never mind that we DID win a Super Bowl, never mind the fact that Seattle did plenty to lose the game before that call, never mind the Ricardo Lockette factor, never mind New England being good and studying tape...

Nope. Anything bad that happens is pretty much tied to The Call, because fans simply can't get over the trauma of winning one Super Bowl out of three.

 

[randomation]

Absolutely both Bevell and Cable a large part of the issue. The primary issue is there is a perception that the comPETE philosophy is only applying to players not to coaches. It wouldn't be acceptable for players to consistently flub the first half with mental mistakes yet that is what we see game after game with Bevell's play calling we start out terribly. This isn't even taking into account Cable who ruins draft pick after draft pick or picks people who suck in the first place. Add to that the fact that a lot of players probably aren't over losing back to back on a stupid playcall and you have a recipe for a locker room explosion. Sherman probably won't be the last one to blow up even if he does get shipped if there is the feeling coaches aren't being held accountable it isn't a good thing.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I think this thread has a handful of candidates that could be good writers for the National Enquirer. If it suits your grind, make it up!!!

 

[TwistedHusky]

Throughout history of the NFL, whenever you have a world beating defense that is required to win the games repeatedly in spite of a toothless offense, you get resentment.

This happened with the great Baltimore teams, it happened with the Dungy led Bucs and it is happening here.

I saw this train coming the moment this team decided that Kam, a linchpin of the defense, that had played HURT to keep us in a playoff game - was essentially spurned.

But for several years we saw one of the best defenses keep us in games even though we had one of worst scoring and worst RZ offenses in the league.

At some point, that was going to wear thin. And with the amount of money invested in some of the offensive players - it isn't a lack of commitment to the offense ....just a lack of ability with it.

Ultimately that falls on Bevell.

It isn't blame. His job is to produce with the offense and ultimately he underperforms. That is not blame but the CAUSE of the problem.

The team adjusts to it and sometimes overcomes, but it is like racing a car with one of those undersized spares on one side. At some point the lack of effectiveness on that side is going to affect your ability to finish the race, and that is what happened.

I suspect Sherman is not alone. It will start to pop out how frustrated the defensive players are with the offense even after removing Sherman - and you will hear it from more players.

It is human nature to be upset when you bust your tail to keep the boat upright and someone else is barely doing anything. Or consistently falling short.

It isn't blame when you point out that Bevell holds this team back. It is the REASON.

 

[randomation]

This isn't made up Bevell sucks in the first half and has a set of plays he goes through before deviating. There is a reason the Hawks are a "second half" team and it has far more to do with the script ending than it does with game start time. It also isn't made up that there is still animosity at Bevell for that call. Now whether more blame should be leveled at Cable for taking pick after pick and making them trash is open to debate but Bevell should have been canned after that super bowl. There just isn't a way to come back from that on the same team and not have rifts open.

 

[Jville]

Throughout history of the NFL, whenever you have a world beating defense that is required to win the games repeatedly in spite of a toothless offense, you get resentment.

This happened with the great Baltimore teams, it happened with the Dungy led Bucs and it is happening here.

I saw this train coming the moment this team decided that Kam, a linchpin of the defense, that had played HURT to keep us in a playoff game - was essentially spurned.

But for several years we saw one of the best defenses keep us in games even though we had one of worst scoring and worst RZ offenses in the league.

At some point, that was going to wear thin. And with the amount of money invested in some of the offensive players - it isn't a lack of commitment to the offense ....just a lack of ability with it.

Ultimately that falls on Bevell.

It isn't blame. His job is to produce with the offense and ultimately he underperforms. That is not blame but the CAUSE of the problem.

The team adjusts to it and sometimes overcomes, but it is like racing a car with one of those undersized spares on one side. At some point the lack of effectiveness on that side is going to affect your ability to finish the race, and that is what happened.

I suspect Sherman is not alone. It will start to pop out how frustrated the defensive players are with the offense even after removing Sherman - and you will hear it from more players.

It is human nature to be upset when you bust your tail to keep the boat upright and someone else is barely doing anything. Or consistently falling short.

It isn't blame when you point out that Bevell holds this team back. It is the REASON.

That's so twisted and lame.

 

[Siouxhawk]

This isn't made up Bevell sucks in the first half and has a set of plays he goes through before deviating. There is a reason the Hawks are a "second half" team and it has far more to do with the script ending than it does with game start time. It also isn't made up that there is still animosity at Bevell for that call. Now whether more blame should be leveled at Cable for taking pick after pick and making them trash is open to debate but Bevell should have been canned after that super bowl. There just isn't a way to come back from that on the same team and not have rifts open.

It's totally made-up useless information. WIth Bevell in charge of the offense, the Hawks have won nearly 70 percent of their games the last 5 years. The only other team that has that sort of track record is the Patriots.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Throughout history of the NFL, whenever you have a world beating defense that is required to win the games repeatedly in spite of a toothless offense, you get resentment.

This happened with the great Baltimore teams, it happened with the Dungy led Bucs and it is happening here.

I saw this train coming the moment this team decided that Kam, a linchpin of the defense, that had played HURT to keep us in a playoff game - was essentially spurned.

But for several years we saw one of the best defenses keep us in games even though we had one of worst scoring and worst RZ offenses in the league.

At some point, that was going to wear thin. And with the amount of money invested in some of the offensive players - it isn't a lack of commitment to the offense ....just a lack of ability with it.

Ultimately that falls on Bevell.

It isn't blame. His job is to produce with the offense and ultimately he underperforms. That is not blame but the CAUSE of the problem.

The team adjusts to it and sometimes overcomes, but it is like racing a car with one of those undersized spares on one side. At some point the lack of effectiveness on that side is going to affect your ability to finish the race, and that is what happened.

I suspect Sherman is not alone. It will start to pop out how frustrated the defensive players are with the offense even after removing Sherman - and you will hear it from more players.

It is human nature to be upset when you bust your tail to keep the boat upright and someone else is barely doing anything. Or consistently falling short.

It isn't blame when you point out that Bevell holds this team back. It is the REASON.

Once again, this rumor mongering has one source TwistedHusky -- and it's your mind. No substance or evidence in facts. Just a bunch of useless information from your mind that the Seahawks organization would scoff at if you delivered your message in person.

 

[Seymour]

Results are not the main issue eating at players. A disrespect (for whatever reason) for the coaching staff sure appears to be coming full tilt head on now though.

Of course, maybe it's just a few malcontents. The big issues have come from Marshawn, Harvin, and Sherman and I think that is telling. The frustration of a Baldwin or Graham has paled in comparison and definitely seem to be heat of the battle or in Baldwin's case a funny jab.

Lynch was allowed to set his own rules and was passive aggressive whenever things didn't go his way. Harvin honestly was a head case every place he went. Sherman can be completely irrational and out of control.

Pete allowed them the leeway to act this way because their talent was so great. In 2014, Harvin went overboard with things causing rifts and then refusing to play so they cut bait. In 2015, Lynch came into camp out of shape, got hurt, bitched about the OC through his Mom, and then decided not to travel to a playoff game after practicing all week. If he would not have retired, they were going to cut him. In 2016, we all know the Sherman stuff. Maybe there is some truth to concerns about him starting to decline, hence the talent doesn't massively exceed the pain in the ass factor.

You picked my brain on that. Pretty much how I see and remember those events. I'd like to add I believe Percy infected Lynch somewhat also.
Remember not wanting to get on the bus when he found out?

 

[TwistedHusky]

Sioux,

It isn't 'rumor' to point out that almost every great defense that had to prop up a weak offense resented that offense.

What is weird is you think it would be different here.

Remove the reality that your contention was that the defensive players had no issue with Bevell and then Sherman himself, one of the mouthpieces of the defense, started calling him out.

But Sherman is the lone wolf? Sure.

There is a lot of information if you choose to look for it, and if you do you will find plenty of teams that did not appreciate the continual failure of their offensive counterparts.

Your defense stretches the boundaries of credibility at this point. Because you are simply incapable of comprehending the problem. Either through willful ignorance or lack of ability. Not an insult, just an observation.

My take is that you are compromised. You either have a personal connection, an emotional connection or an imaginary connection to Bevell. Not sure but I don't think you can make unbiased assessments of him, which really limits the credibility.

I respect that you maintain your stance in spite of all the animosity and the general attitude toward him. You are consistently supportive. I don't believe you could maintain that stance based on the data so there has to be another issue that impacts your perspective. That means I highly discount your perspective, however.

 

[Uncle Si]

What data?

 

[Jville]

Indeed.

That's one lost puppy.

 

[randomation]

This isn't made up Bevell sucks in the first half and has a set of plays he goes through before deviating. There is a reason the Hawks are a "second half" team and it has far more to do with the script ending than it does with game start time. It also isn't made up that there is still animosity at Bevell for that call. Now whether more blame should be leveled at Cable for taking pick after pick and making them trash is open to debate but Bevell should have been canned after that super bowl. There just isn't a way to come back from that on the same team and not have rifts open.

It's totally made-up useless information. WIth Bevell in charge of the offense, the Hawks have won nearly 70 percent of their games the last 5 years. The only other team that has that sort of track record is the Patriots.

Do you think maybe just maybe some of those wins could be attributed in part to the D? It's telling that one of the leaders of that D is acting out. If we had even a minimally competent OC we would not be requiring Russ to go super human because we wouldn't end up with games where we were down by 3 scores. He is incompetent and now he is alienating one of best players because Pete refuses to make changes to deal with said incompetence. I'm a badger alum if anyone should be emotionally compromised with regard to Bevs it's me so all I can figure is you must have a personal connection.

 

[Hyak]

Throughout history of the NFL, whenever you have a world beating defense that is required to win the games repeatedly in spite of a toothless offense, you get resentment.

This happened with the great Baltimore teams, it happened with the Dungy led Bucs and it is happening here.

I saw this train coming the moment this team decided that Kam, a linchpin of the defense, that had played HURT to keep us in a playoff game - was essentially spurned.

But for several years we saw one of the best defenses keep us in games even though we had one of worst scoring and worst RZ offenses in the league.

At some point, that was going to wear thin. And with the amount of money invested in some of the offensive players - it isn't a lack of commitment to the offense ....just a lack of ability with it.

Ultimately that falls on Bevell.

It isn't blame. His job is to produce with the offense and ultimately he underperforms. That is not blame but the CAUSE of the problem.

The team adjusts to it and sometimes overcomes, but it is like racing a car with one of those undersized spares on one side. At some point the lack of effectiveness on that side is going to affect your ability to finish the race, and that is what happened.

I suspect Sherman is not alone. It will start to pop out how frustrated the defensive players are with the offense even after removing Sherman - and you will hear it from more players.

It is human nature to be upset when you bust your tail to keep the boat upright and someone else is barely doing anything. Or consistently falling short.

It isn't blame when you point out that Bevell holds this team back. It is the REASON.

You do realize that those statements are not true, right?

Offensive Points/Game Rank
2012 - 9
2013 - 8
2014 - 9
2015 - 8
2016 - 17

Offensive Efficiency (DVOA)
2012 - 4
2013 - 7
2014 - 5
2015 - 1
2016 - 17

As far as investment, the last 2 or 3 years have been about 60% defense/40% offense in terms of cap dollars even with Wilson and Baldwin getting paid. The defense has 7 guys with big contracts whereas the offense has 3.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Sioux,

It isn't 'rumor' to point out that almost every great defense that had to prop up a weak offense resented that offense.

What is weird is you think it would be different here.

Remove the reality that your contention was that the defensive players had no issue with Bevell and then Sherman himself, one of the mouthpieces of the defense, started calling him out.

But Sherman is the lone wolf? Sure.

There is a lot of information if you choose to look for it, and if you do you will find plenty of teams that did not appreciate the continual failure of their offensive counterparts.

Your defense stretches the boundaries of credibility at this point. Because you are simply incapable of comprehending the problem. Either through willful ignorance or lack of ability. Not an insult, just an observation.

My take is that you are compromised. You either have a personal connection, an emotional connection or an imaginary connection to Bevell. Not sure but I don't think you can make unbiased assessments of him, which really limits the credibility.

I respect that you maintain your stance in spite of all the animosity and the general attitude toward him. You are consistently supportive. I don't believe you could maintain that stance based on the data so there has to be another issue that impacts your perspective. That means I highly discount your perspective, however.

See, that's the problem. You don't have any overwhelming data. Zilch!

JTB and J'ville listed some logical data in the Sherman thread that completely supports how our offense isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. In fact, it's been pretty good.

You do realize Bevell has been there just about from the beginning of the Pete era, doing his part to hoist the franchise into its most glorious years of existence. He's tutored Russ to the point of being an elite quarterback and he'll further that development in the offseason by getting him to anticipate routes more and trust his receivers to get open.

As has been gone over routinely, but you seem to always forget, the offense has to be drawn up and orchestrated within the confines of Pete's low-risk approach. We win when we come out on top of the turnover battle. That necessitates a good ground game. We also are tops in the league in explosive plays. All of that has come together in Bevell's system to the tune of having double-digit wins and making the playoffs 5 years in a row. We've never lost in the wild card round in that time. We've been in 2 Super Bowls, winning one of them.

And don't make it seem like it's a me against the world stance I'm taking. There are many calculating fans, many on this site, that understand the good work Bevell is doing. I'd say you are the one in the minority on this one as the majority of fans are oblivious to the role of the OC to begin with.

So before you question my credibility, I want to ask you again how it feels to have the head coach of the franchise you follow, the most successful coach this organization has ever had, to look at you in the eyes and proclaim: "TwistedHusky, you don't know what you're talking about!" Because that's basically what Pete said to you a few months ago when the question was brought up about a perceived lack of confidence in Bevell. So unless you don't believe in Pete, your grandstanding ain't worth a lick.

 

[Tical21]

I can already see where this is going to go. If Sherman ends up with another team, it's all going to be placed at the feet of Bevell and the one play call. Never mind that we DID win a Super Bowl, never mind the fact that Seattle did plenty to lose the game before that call, never mind the Ricardo Lockette factor, never mind New England being good and studying tape...

Nope. Anything bad that happens is pretty much tied to The Call, because fans simply can't get over the trauma of winning one Super Bowl out of three.

In reality, it is true though, in my opinion. If Sherman leaves, it is a direct relation. Those guys, both offense and defense, have to walk into work every day and look at that guy. I'm sure there are some that don't hold a grudge at all, but my guess is there aren't many. The rest despise the thought of the guy, even more having to continue to work with him. Asking a player to get over it is too much to ask IMO. Blame Sherman for being bitter if you'd like, but I guarantee he is one of dozens, and is just more vocal about it than others. IMO the future of the soul of this team had its fate sealed the moment they decided to continue with Bevell as a part of the journey.

This isn't about what ranking the offense has had since the Super Bowl. This isn't about whether or not Bevell can coach. It is about the mental state of the players on the football team. Pete thought he could overcome this. You just don't come back from a call like that and win over the trust of the locker room again.

 

[Hyak]

Note only 19 players remain from the 2014 SB team so dozens of malcontents might be a tad of an exaggeration.

Offense: Wilson, Baldwin, Kearse, Richardson, Britt, and Gilliam
Defense: Bennett, Avril, Marsh, Wagner, Wright, KPL, Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Lane, Shead
ST: Ryan

 

[Siouxhawk]

And the esoteric overdramatics continue to catapult flying pigs into the stratosphere.

In what world do some of you people live? Seriously, are we talking about the pilot of Gossip Girl or the latest Bold and the Beautiful episode? Or are we talking about an NFL locker room? I highly doubt that kind of caddy atmosphere is even remotely close to what's going on in One Renton Place.

My hunch of what we have here is the transference of one disgruntled fan's feelings onto the perceived locker room attitude of the Seahawks. My feeling is that the opposite takes place and that the players and coaches work in harmony with respect. It's the culture of the Hawks and it hasn't gone away.

It's fine for some of you to go fishing in the dark, but the upside is just a few tall tales that no one else can see.

 

[Rocket]

If you just want to have a bitch fest among yourself as a way to cope with your frailties, sure, I'll exit stage left.

"among yourself"...

That's kewl. I always wanted to talk to a split personality. Can you message me the phone number?
Will I need to use multiple phone numbers?

 

[Siouxhawk]

If you just want to have a bitch fest among yourself as a way to cope with your frailties, sure, I'll exit stage left.

"among yourself"...

That's kewl. I always wanted to talk to a split personality. Can you message me the phone number?
Will I need to use multiple phone numbers?

Damn it Rocket, I knew I made that grammatical faux pas and should have changed it to "themselves" with an edit, but I didn't think it would be detected! You got me.

Hey, were/are you a journalist? I like your sig. The internet has regressed journalism 80 years. Sensationalism rules again!