Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

[Ozzy]

3 or 4 guys drop out...........But....but....he's a Pro Bowl QB!!!

2 seasons ago, absolutely a pro bowl level QB. Last year? Um.......no.

Some of us believe in the QB, some of us don't. It IS ok to have either opinion. It's the QB, most scrutinized position in sports. If he plays like he did in 2022, this team is making the playoffs, imo.

100%

 

[SoulfishHawk]

When he's on, he can be damn good. We need him, he's what we have. Hopefully, we don't see Howell all season. That would mean a very good season by Geno.
We also don't know what kind of a hook Coach Mike will have w/the QB.

 

[hawkfan68]

He was a backup for Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Russell Wilson - 3 guys who are 2nd, 3rd and 6th on the all-time consecutive starts list at QB and all 3 who are likely going to be in the conversation for HoF. Sure he lost his job to Ryan Fitzpatrick when his jaw was broken - and subsequently tore his ACL in his first game when given the opportunity to win the job back, but that's the only aberration in his career. If Rich Gannon can go from backing up guys like Mark Rypien, Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac to become a regular starter in his 12th year as a pro and subsequently win a superbowl and MVP more than 10 years, why can't Geno go from backing up 3 HoFers to do the same?

What superbowl did Rich Gannon win? The only superbowl I remember him being involved with was with the Raiders in 2002 in which the TB beat the Raiders fairly easily. Was he in any others that I may have missed?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He made the super bowl but got smoked by Tampa Bay. He did win an MVP, which is a trip.

 

[hawkfan68]

He made the super bowl but got smoked by Tampa Bay. He did win an MVP, which is a trip.

NFL MVP award is a pure joke. Just my opinion. It's about the same level of a joke as the pro bowl is these days.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Pro Bowl is def. a joke. I can't take it seriously, even a little bit.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The one time? Lol. Good lord. 4 Super Bowl appearances in 5 years with 3 wins and your concentrating on one time and comparing that to a situation Geno has been in?

Don't be obtuse. I'm making a point that even Mahomes cannot always overcome the type of pressure that Seattle has allowed in recent years. I'm not comparing their caliber, I'm saying that no quarterback can do it himself - even a demigod like Mahomes.

 

[Maelstrom787]

In 2017 we still had the 11th and 13th ranked defense by yards and points, and 10th in takeaways. Those figures are 30th, 25th and 11th for last year.

Our rushing attack on the other hand was absolutely decimated that year and the stats really don't show how bad it was.

What I will say is that Geno appeared to be a different beast last year when Lucas was healthy (and Cross too in some respects), so it will make a huge difference this year if he is able to be ready for the beginning of season (and stay healthy!)

Huh. Not sure why I remember 2017 being so much worse defensively. Must be the overall stank of that year clouding my judgment.

 

[SeaWolv]

Marino won 8 post season games, had a Super Bowl appearance, and is in the HOF. Are you seriously using him as an example? He definitely made his teams better than what they were.

How many Super Bowl wins did those 3 QB's collect? Do you think it might have been due to their talent level?

JayHawkMike said:

Winners overcome the weaknesses on their team and make them better. Losers succumb to their weaknesses and that of their team. Geno Smith does not elevate his team. The team will have to elevate Geno to have success in spite of him and not because of him.

Yes Marino was an elite HoF QB but how much team weakness did he overcome? Certainly not enough to win a SB or even get back to the SB. He may have 8 playoff wins but he also has 10 playoff losses.

Jim Kelly made it to the SB 4 times but could never overcome his team's weaknesses enough to win it.

I'm not saying GS is either of those guys, he's not, but he might be good enough to do what Goff, Garoppolo and Purdy did.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, hopefully we get to see it.

 

[BASF]

This whole thing is based on perception. The perceptions of the people who were dazzled by Russell Wilson were never going to accept the next QB unless he was young enough for them to allow for his mistakes or if he was able to be the driving force in us getting to the NFC Championship game. Interestingly these Wilson groupies were always talking down Pete Carroll as being the problem. Also interestingly, it wasn't Pete Carroll holding back Geno or our offense the past two seasons, it was Geno who was the problem.

For those who recognized the holes in Russell Wilson's game, Geno is what they have been looking for. Someone who isn't live or die by something that isn't sustainable. Their perception is that we can win this type of QB and we are paying a pretty reasonable price for him.

Then there is the perception that any of our previous Carroll teams were as bad as the abomination we were subjected to last season. Which is completely erroneous. Both of our coordinators were figured out the previous season by the league and stupidly retained by Pete Carroll. We came out with minor variations to start 2023, but it did not last past our bye. The league laughed at our schemes and we fell off for the most part.

Perception is funny and the fact that so many simply stick to theirs without allowing for others to even budge them is laughable.

 

[RiverDog]

True. But he also threw a lot of balls right to defenders who have feet for hands.

(it's a joke, breathe in)

Geno is around 15-18. Bottom 1/3, nah. I'm more concerned about his ability to finish big games.

This is true.

I can't find it now, but in the 2022 season, someone or some site trotted out a stat that showed Geno as having benefited the most from dropped interceptions. I'm not putting it out there to disrespect Geno, just to illustrate that there's a lot of these oddball stats that people will come up with that are interesting, but we shouldn't be putting a lot of weight on them.

I'm good with Geno being our QB for now as there isn't a better option. We have a lot of fish to fry in rebuilding this team so we're ready when 'that guy' comes around. Geno's not 'elite', but he's not dog meat, either.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Opinions are what a message board is for. Russ had plenty of flaws, he was sent packing, and it was a good thing. Geno gets a bit overrated on this board, imo.
And it has nothing to do with Russ. Dude has been gone 2 plus years. Rear view. But he was by far the best QB this team has ever had. Period.

I don't believe that Geno can take us even to an NFC Championship. That's my OPINION, laughable or not. Geno's decision making was pretty questionable last season. He needs to get back to where he was his first year as the starter here. I hope to be very wrong, bring on the crow.

 

[AgentDib]

The problem with jamming every QB together into a generic ranking is that the outcome depends a lot on whether you are looking at the short term or long term.

There are a few QBs at the top who are highly regarded and have won a lot. Most people will put 5-7 QBs in that group depending on how they feel about Prescott and Hurts.

After that, there are a bunch of veteran QBs who have had success but are on the downside of their careers. There are also a bunch of young QBs with talent who haven't won very much yet. Which you prefer depends on whether you are talking about game 1 this season, game 17 this season, or some point off in the future.

Is there an argument to rank Geno at #8? Sure. He's two years younger than Stafford, Cousins or Carr with much less wear and tear and isn't nearly as much of an injury concern. He's also had much more experience than the young unproven QB group.

It's also reasonable to rank him as low as #16 or so if you're looking at the long-term and prioritize younger players.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Geno the 8th best QB in the NFL? I wish.

 

[knownone]

Ah the pro bowls. I've been waiting for this one. How many QB's were injured or dropped out before Geno was selected last season? Here's something to think about,,,,Baker Mayfield went to the pro bowl last season. The pro bowl is a joke.

How many QBs, including injuries and dropouts, are selected for the Pro Bowl? What fraction of the league do they represent? That would put Geno in the 70th percentile this year (above average). Now, put that number into the context of my comment (which you've taken out of context). In other words, how many QBs fall through the cracks, like Geno, and return to go to back-to-back pro bowls? Even if the Pro Bowl is a joke, Geno is an exception.

Here's something to consider: Baker Mayfield had a good season last year.

 

[pittpnthrs]

He was a backup for Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Russell Wilson - 3 guys who are 2nd, 3rd and 6th on the all-time consecutive starts list at QB and all 3 who are likely going to be in the conversation for HoF. Sure he lost his job to Ryan Fitzpatrick when his jaw was broken - and subsequently tore his ACL in his first game when given the opportunity to win the job back, but that's the only aberration in his career. If Rich Gannon can go from backing up guys like Mark Rypien, Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac to become a regular starter in his 12th year as a pro and subsequently win a superbowl and MVP more than 10 years, why can't Geno go from backing up 3 HoFers to do the same?

Did you miss the part where he said "Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level"? With a comment like that, it's a wonder how Smith wasn't starting in front of Wilson since he's so awesome.

When Smith can win even just one post season game, i'll reconsider my opinion of him.

 

[Shane Falco]

He was middle of the pack last season.. top 10 the previous season. Pretty good for a bridge QB, which I view him as because of his age. But I am content with that.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Content? Def. not. But it could be a heck of a lot worse.

 

[pittpnthrs]

JayHawkMike said:

Yes Marino was an elite HoF QB but how much team weakness did he overcome? Certainly not enough to win a SB or even get back to the SB. He may have 8 playoff wins but he also has 10 playoff losses.

Jim Kelly made it to the SB 4 times but could never overcome his team's weaknesses enough to win it.

I'm not saying GS is either of those guys, he's not, but he might be good enough to do what Goff, Garoppolo and Purdy did.

He has two years to win at least one post season game. We'll see.