How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft

[Sgt. Largent]

Since we're at the midway point of the 2012 season, I thought it'd be interesting to compare Irvin's stats to the other D-Lineman taken in the first round that the Hawks were rumored to be interested in.

In order drafted
Fletcher Cox - Philly = 11 tackles, 1 sack
Michael Brockers - St. Louis = 6 tackles, 1 sack
Bruce Irvin - Seattle = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
Quintin Coples - Jets = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
Shea McClellin - San Diego = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
Chandler Jones - New England = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
Whitney Mercilus - 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

So what grade do you guys give Bruce halfway through his first season? While I like his POTENTIAL to be a bigtime pass rusher, I look at the stats of a full time D-End like Jones who's lighting up his rookie year........taken AFTER Irvin, and see that Irvin has a long long way to go to earn his high draft pick.

Let's be honest, Irvin has had flashes of brilliance (Green Bay game).......but for the most part has been invisible for long stretches of the season so far.

 

[hawkfan68]

I think Irvin is doing well. He's not a full-time DE at this point and his sack numbers are the second highest.

 

[XxxZagnutxxX]

I'm betting this offseason they will add some weight without sacrificing his speed. 4.5 sacks in a limited role is not bad and I would rate him a solid B.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I'd like to see more consistency from him on the road. At home, the pass rush is at such a big advantage with the crowd.. but on the road our pass rush completely disappears for big stretches of time.

I think Clemons has done more on the road than Irvin has. Would like to see that change. Kid has major potential though once he learns a couple more moves. Right now I think he's using strictly speed in a lot of cases.

 

[kidhawk]

If I just rated him on the Packer game, I'd give him an A+...but for the season overall, he's had some ups and downs, so I'd have to grade him in the low B category. His rating is based on the fact that he was a mid 1st round pick...if he'd been a later pick, he'd be rated higher, but you have to grade 1st round picks a little differently IMO

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think Irvin is doing well. He's not a full-time DE at this point and his sack numbers are the second highest.

My concern isn't his sack total, it's his tackle total. Didn't Carroll say after he was drafted that he fully expected Irvin to develop into full time DE, and not just a "pass rush specialist?"

I know Irvin is still developing, but if the Detroit game proved anything, it's that our D-Line desperately needs him to get consistent pressure on the QB. We're now halfway through the season, it's time for Irvin to step up. This D can't afford for him to be absent on the stat sheet anymore.

 

[jlwaters1]

Since we're at the midway point of the 2012 season, I thought it'd be interesting to compare Irvin's stats to the other D-Lineman taken in the first round that the Hawks were rumored to be interested in.

In order drafted
Fletcher Cox - Philly = 11 tackles, 1 sack
Michael Brockers - St. Louis = 6 tackles, 1 sack
Bruce Irvin - Seattle = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
Quintin Coples - Jets = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
Shea McClellin - San Diego = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
Chandler Jones - New England = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
Whitney Mercilus - 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

So what grade do you guys give Bruce halfway through his first season? While I like his POTENTIAL to be a bigtime pass rusher, I look at the stats of a full time D-End like Jones who's lighting up his rookie year........taken AFTER Irvin, and see that Irvin has a long long way to go to earn his high draft pick.

Let's be honest, Irvin has had flashes of brilliance (Green Bay game).......but for the most part has been invisible for long stretches of the season so far.

I disagree. Chandler Jones is a full-time starter and has just 1.5 sacks more than Irvin. Irvin has has more of an impact if you were to compare sacks per rush attempts. Also you must factor in that Chandler Jones has much more "quality" opportunites to rush the passer as NE in several games have been up significantly forcing teams to abandon the run and he can just tee off on them. Which means that Jones has not only had more opportunities but I would submit has had more "quality" opportunties to rush the passer.

I think he's showing that he's deserving of his draft status.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Stat that should surprise no one..

Record when Bruce Irvin gets a sack - 3-0

Record when he does not - 1-4 (Patriots only victory)

We need him basically.

 

[jlwaters1]

I'd like to see more consistency from him on the road. At home, the pass rush is at such a big advantage with the crowd.. but on the road our pass rush completely disappears for big stretches of time.

I think Clemons has done more on the road than Irvin has. Would like to see that change. Kid has major potential though once he learns a couple more moves. Right now I think he's using strictly speed in a lot of cases.

I don't know. Irvin has 2.5 sacks at home (.5 against Dallas, 2 against GB) and 2 sacks on the road (2 against Carolina)

I think he's been steady. He just needs to continue to develop.

 

[kidhawk]

I think Irvin is doing well. He's not a full-time DE at this point and his sack numbers are the second highest.

My concern isn't his sack total, it's his tackle total. Didn't Carroll say after he was drafted that he fully expected Irvin to develop into full time DE, and not just a "pass rush specialist?"

I know Irvin is still developing, but if the Detroit game proved anything, it's that our D-Line desperately needs him to get consistent pressure on the QB. We're now halfway through the season, it's time for Irvin to step up. This D can't afford for him to be absent on the stat sheet anymore.

Look at our defense right now. When we drafted him, Clemons was holding out for a long term contract (which he eventually got). This is just Irvin's first year. We have Clemons and Bryant as our starting DE's. There's no place for another starting DE right now. I think he very well can develop into a starting DE, but he's not here to supplant either Red or Clemons right now, he's here to develop and rotate in on pass rushing downs

 

[Happy]

I'm going to do the captain obvious post I guess.

DE has a sharp learning curve at the NFL level. It's not unusual for guys to take some time to learn the position. I think he's doing just fine. He has as many sacks mario williams had in his entire rookie campaign.

I don't see any red flags, anything to be overly concerned about. Just feels like searching for problems where there really isn't one to me.

 

[redhawk253]

easy to blam the DE's when no pressure is coming up the middle.. in the green bay game the DE's had a big day because mebane and jones were collapsing the pocket so rodgers couldnt step up and instead of being pushed harmlessly downfield of the qb.. they ended up right on top of him.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I disagree. Chandler Jones is a full-time starter and has just 1.5 sacks more than Irvin. Irvin has has more of an impact if you were to compare sacks per rush attempts. Also you must factor in that Chandler Jones has much more "quality" opportunites to rush the passer as NE in several games have been up significantly forcing teams to abandon the run and he can just tee off on them. Which means that Jones has not only had more opportunities but I would submit has had more "quality" opportunties to rush the passer.

I think he's showing that he's deserving of his draft status.

I hear ya, I'm just a little disappointed that Irvin hasn't been more consistent with his opportunities. For a high first round pick, we need him to produce, and so far he hasn't produced enough IMO.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Just feels like searching for problems where there really isn't one to me.

You don't think our D-Line's lack of a consistent pass rush this year is a problem? It certainly was in the Lion game, and I could argue was the determining factor in the loss.

 

[aku]

Didn't Carroll say after he was drafted that he fully expected Irvin to develop into full time DE, and not just a "pass rush specialist?"

Develop into, yes. But that's a long term plan and it's now how he's being used now. He currently takes the field almost exclusively for passing downs, which means that he doesn't really have a chance to get tackles that aren't sacks.

Speaking of pass rush, here's a snippet from a PFF article on pass rush efficency after week 5:

Step forward Bruce Irvin who has become a key part of the Seaahwks exceptional nickel and dime packages. Irvin is the highest ranked rookie on the list (8th), with the next best rookie being Chandler Jones in 24th spot.

When he was drafted, we hoped to get the next Aldon Smith. So far, we've gotten it. I can't see how we could be disappointed.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When he was drafted, we hoped to get the next Aldon Smith. So far, we've gotten it. I can't see how we could be disappointed.

We did?

Smith had 31 tackles and 14 sacks last year. Irvin is on pace for 14 tackles and 9 sacks. That's not even close.

 

[hawker84]

bruce irvings tackle totals are not going to be as high as a full time DE like jones , because he's usually only in there on passing downs, which means he's usually not going to be around the play to make the tackle, unless it's a sack or tackle by the line of scrimmage... i think he's doing fine, would like to see more moves than the speed and bull rush, but that'll come i'm sure..

 

[Basis4day]

For the scheme we are running and how the team is using Irvin, I'd say he's doing pretty damn well.

I don't care what "WE" want out of our draft picks. I care what the team wants out of their draft picks.

 

[kidhawk]

Just feels like searching for problems where there really isn't one to me.

You don't think our D-Line's lack of a consistent pass rush this year is a problem? It certainly was in the Lion game, and I could argue was the determining factor in the loss.

Jones is a bigger piece of the puzzle than you give credit for. Our pass rush did decline last week and Jones was in street clothes. Pass rushing is one of those things that has many contributing factors, and how the inside lineman play makes a big difference on how easily DE's can get free to rush the passer.

 

[hawkfan68]

When he was drafted, we hoped to get the next Aldon Smith. So far, we've gotten it. I can't see how we could be disappointed.

We did?

Smith had 31 tackles and 14 sacks last year. Irvin is on pace for 14 tackles and 9 sacks. That's not even close.

Actually, it's closer than you think. Irvin plays less than Aldon Smith. Smith is an every down DE in 49er system. Irvin is not that in the Seahawk system. Red Bryant and Clemons get most of the reps in the current Seahawk scheme. So comparing the two is somewhat flawed logic. As others have mentioned, there is schematic difference between 49er defense and Seahawk defense. Thus making the comparison even more irrelevant.