Hey Kearly

[FlyingGreg]

Matt Scott...ok, I get it now. I finally got around to watching some of his game action. He's got a lot of potential.

He's getting some buzz at the combine too, albeit as a "second tier" guy.

Good heads up. What round do you think fits for him?

 

[Sac]

He's got small hands, like a carney...

 

[FlyingGreg]

He's got small hands, like a carney...

Wilson can teach him to grow bigger hands.

 

[kearly]

He has 9" hands, which are generally considered the cutoff point. I'm not worried about it. I don't remember him having a problem with fumbles or sloppy passes.

I don't want to oversell Matt Scott, I just think he's a really intriguing player in a really bad year for late round QBs. I do think he'd be an upgrade over Matt Flynn in our offense, perhaps immediately. He's a natural QB and a fast learner.

 

[FlyingGreg]

He has 9" hands, which are generally considered the cutoff point. I'm not worried about it. I don't remember him having a problem with fumbles or sloppy passes.

I don't want to oversell Matt Scott, I just think he's a really intriguing player in a really bad year for late round QBs. I do think he'd be an upgrade over Matt Flynn in our offense, perhaps immediately. He's a natural QB and a fast learner.

He's definitely better suited for the full gamut of the offense. Flynn is a pocket passer.

 

[JSeahawks]

Personally I think his ceiling is 3rd string emergency QB at best. More likely Canadian football league. But we shall see.

Pretty good college QB who has no "it" factor, imo. Actually kind of reminds me of a less talented Joey Harrington.

To be honest, i dont really like any of the QB's in this draft. None of them would have been in my top 6 qbs last year.

 

[Trrrroy]

Personally I think his ceiling is 3rd string emergency QB at best. More likely Canadian football league. But we shall see.

Pretty good college QB who has no "it" factor, imo. Actually kind of reminds me of a less talented Joey Harrington.

To be honest, i dont really like any of the QB's in this draft. None of them would have been in my top 6 qbs last year.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this. Kearly peaked my interest here and I've watched most of the film on him I could find and I just wasn't impressed. He very rarely looks past his first read (which, in his defense, could be by design but he'll have to break that habit in the NFL), and his accuracy is inconsistent as is his decision making. I don't buy that he'll be a better backup for this team than Flynn, especially not right away. He does have tools, though, that make you think he can grow into something but if he's the only guy behind Wilson I'm very nervous.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Personally I think his ceiling is 3rd string emergency QB at best. More likely Canadian football league. But we shall see.

Pretty good college QB who has no "it" factor, imo. Actually kind of reminds me of a less talented Joey Harrington.

To be honest, i dont really like any of the QB's in this draft. None of them would have been in my top 6 qbs last year.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this. Kearly peaked my interest here and I've watched most of the film on him I could find and I just wasn't impressed. He very rarely looks past his first read (which, in his defense, could be by design but he'll have to break that habit in the NFL), and his accuracy is inconsistent as is his decision making. I don't buy that he'll be a better backup for this team than Flynn, especially not right away. He does have tools, though, that make you think he can grow into something but if he's the only guy behind Wilson I'm very nervous.

To be fair, ANYONE behind Wilson makes me nervous. Wilson is just that good.

 

[kearly]

Here is how I would rank the QBs from the last two years (as prospects):

#1: Matt Barkley: everything about him physically is "good enough" to be an elite QB. Handled adversity better than any QB on this list not named Russell Wilson. I thought in 2010 and 2011 he was better than Andrew Luck. I still think that. Hugely underrated. He will probably suck if he goes to the Cardinals, but right team / right situation I think he'll be similar to Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan.

#2: Andrew Luck: One of those "checkbox" wetdreams. Checks every box. His upside isn't what people think it is. I think he's Eli Manning with mobility or maybe Ben Roethlisberger.

#3: Geno Smith: Better than people think. Great arm, checks reads, can be dominant when he's on. Mobile, smart. Good mechanics and footwork. Injury free. Natural QB.

#4: RG3: Was extremely raw even in his last college season (footwork, throwing technique, reads, etc). Was a massive injury magnet in college. I liked him a lot but thought people were focusing on upside too much and risk too little. To his credit, he's not a raw QB anymore. He's already far better than I thought he'd be. He'll be an all time great QB if he can adjust to being a pocket QB.

#5: R. Wilson: I thought he'd be really really really good, but not this good this soon. Size (potential health risk) worried me enough to put him below Luck/RG3 even though his tape blew theirs out of the water.

#6: Glennon: Refined and under-rated. Not a star, but I'd say he's Blaine Gabbert caliber as a prospect. Hopefully he has a better career than that.

#7: Tannehill: Basically a better Jake Locker.

#8: Nassib: (I'm in a hurry). I remember thinking he was a solid QB when I did his tape review. Late 1st isn't a stretch for him IMO.

#9: T. Wilson: Small hands and bad attitude, pretty high bust potential and all that, but he's a natural point guard type. Knows how to distribute the football, an uncommon and valuable skill that's incredibly under-rated.

#10: Chandler Harnish: Highly under-rated prospect from last year. Reminded me of Jeff Garcia.

Honorable mention: Tyler Bray (gives me serious Andy Dalton vibes)

Remember, that list is AS PROSPECTS and doesn't benefit from hindsight. If it did, it would lead off Wilson #1 and RG3 #2.

 

[onanygivensunday]

... I do think he'd be an upgrade over Matt Flynn in our offense, perhaps immediately. He's a natural QB and a fast learner. I don't want to oversell Matt Scott

But you just did... well, kinda. :mrgreen:

 

[JSeahawks]

Here is how I would rank the QBs from the last two years (as prospects).

Interesting list. I'm not going to argue because its all in the eye of the beholder and there's no wrong or right answer. I do disagree with you on Barkley though. I dont understand how you can say he handled adversity better then anybody when he was the quarterback of the 1st ever preseason number 1 team to end up unranked. To me thats failing as soon as adversity hit.

Even with sanctions that team had all the talent in the world and underachieved massively. I know a lot of that is because they have a terrible head coach, but if you put Russell Wilson, Luck or Griffin on that team instead of Matt Barkley they're in the Rose Bowl or the national championship game, imo. Not because they're a ton better at playing QB, but because they're miles ahead in all of the intangibles that the position requires.


I think my list would look something like this (only ranking the guys that i've seen a lot of in college, havnt seen quite a few of those guys you mentioned):

Andrew Luck






Robert Griffin /Russell Wilson



Then i'd put a group of Foles, Tannehill, Geno Smith, Brock Osweiller (I thought he was going to be like Roethlessberger.. missed on that one), and Barkley.


Brandon Weeden, Matt Scott

 

[getnasty]

Do we have to go with a guy who can run the ball? I would love to pick Tyler Bray on Tyler Wilson in round 4. Have Pete or John made mention of the back up having to be mobile. I realize it makes sense to mirror the starter but i'd rather have a guy who can throw it and not be mobile thena guy who can run but is a mediocre thrower.

 

[kearly]

Interesting list. I'm not going to argue because its all in the eye of the beholder and there's no wrong or right answer. I do disagree with you on Barkley though. I dont understand how you can say he handled adversity better then anybody when he was the quarterback of the 1st ever preseason number 1 team to end up unranked. To me thats failing as soon as adversity hit.

Oh come now, that's lame and you should know better.

First, football is a team game. You can't blame a QB wholesale for a teams record. If I blamed anyone, it would be their coaching staff. Biggest "less with more" staff in the Pac-12.

Second, you might recall that I thought USC was vastly overrated in the preseason and thought Oregon was going to have a far better season. I predicted USC would have at least 3 losses.

Third, the only reason they were so over-rated to begin with was because they were so good to end the prior season. And why was that? It was because Barkley was white hot. Unsustainably white hot, but he was on a serious tear nonetheless.

What I mean by adversity is having to lead a team back to win a game even when most of the rest of the team is trying it's hardest to lose you the game. Their defense was a joke last season, and their pass protection wasn't much better. It was a little like Jake Locker's situation at UW, but with more talent at WR.

Russell Wilson is incredible. But he still lost 3 games playing for a LOADED Wisconsin team that year. He lost six games playing for a LOADED Seahawks team this year. You can't just assume that great QB = almost never losing. And USC was hardly a good team last year. I don't care what their rivals star rankings says. UW was kicking USC's ass in the 2nd half and probably would have won if not for Keith Price fumbling the game away with 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter. Many times that year, (including that game) I saw Barkley lead a sinking ship to wins. They better really hope that Max Browne is ready, because that team could threaten a losing record in 2013 at the rate that roster is underachieving.

Generally speaking, if you are evaluating a QB by wins, you stepped way off the reservation. I could name many fantastic winners in college that were horrible prospects. I believe David Greene was and might still be the winningest QB at Georgia. Then you have Tim Tebow, Colin Klein, etc.

As far as Luck, he was in an extremely favorable situation at Stanford. He had a great defense and an all-universe O-line and probably the best group of TEs in college football. When he was rarely thrown into adverse situations, and it was really really rare, the cracks in his game quickly showed. It's not surprising to me at all that he struggled with incompletions and interceptions this year. He's throws a very pretty pass and is clutch, but he's not Mr. Amazing like people think.

 

[kearly]

Glennon is pretty good. One of those good but not great players. I think he'll have a career roughly on par with what Sam Bradford has had so far. A guy who is just barely good enough.

I never really liked Osweiler, although I did buy into him as a target for Seattle. I didn't like how he pulled a Mark Sanchez leaving so quickly, but at least Sanchez was coming off a really nice season. Osweiler was coming off a rocky season that got his coach fired. Why come out early when you know you'll be a 2nd rounder at best? It struck me as an admission that he doesn't think he's good enough to be a 1st rounder. I also really didn't like his tape, or the rumors about his personality.

 

[JSeahawks]

I'm not judging him by wins as much as i'm judging the effect that he has on his teammates and how his teammates play for him and how he carries himself. To me what you cant see in a QB is just as valuable, if not more valuable, then what you can see. You're right that Barkley can do everything a QB is supposed to do on the field. He can make all the throws, he's accurate, his arm is strong enough, and all that stuff.

He's just not somebody who I would want leading my team when shit got heavy. I'm not in love with his game day demeanor, or the way that he carries himself. In his interviews he doesnt come across as confident and rock steady as Luck, Wilson or Griffin. I dont think that he has the swagger or the "it" factor that they have.

It has nothing to do with football skills but I think if you went to a party and Luck, Wilson or Griffin were in the room, even if you had no clue who they were, you could recognize them as the alpha male, leader type who people gravitate to and fight for. I dont imagine that you get that same feeling when you walk into a room with Barklay. As far fetched as it might seem, I think that is a more important traight for a QB then being able to make all the throws on the route tree.

Again, I dont think Barkley is going to be terrible. I think he'll be a starting QB in the league. I just don't think he's going to be a super star. And I agree with you on Kiffin, he handicapped that team and hope he continues to for several years.

 

[kearly]

I'm not judging him by wins as much as i'm judging the effect that he has on his teammates and how his teammates play for him and how he carries himself. To me what you cant see in a QB is just as valuable, if not more valuable, then what you can see.

Why do you think that? I think just the opposite. Without Barkley I think they are a 4 win team last year. Did you see them with their backup? Awful.

I'll grant you that he does come across as a sunny Orange County type kid, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Troy Aikman was a SoCal kid who had a similar sunny demeanor and he has 3 rings. Matt Stafford was a fun loving guy, and I think a lot of teams would like a Matt Stafford NFL QB.

I disagree on the "it" factor. Compared to Russell Wilson or Tom Brady, no, he's not that "serial killer" ice-water in his veins type, but he has had a lot of impressive games under pressure, especially if you look back before 2012.

It's impossible to say how good Barkley will be, but I think every team that passes on him because of his team and coaches ineptitude in 2012 and the fact that he can't throw 60 yards on a frozen rope is proving why they are picking at the top of the draft in the first place.

 

[JSeahawks]

I'm not judging him by wins as much as i'm judging the effect that he has on his teammates and how his teammates play for him and how he carries himself. To me what you cant see in a QB is just as valuable, if not more valuable, then what you can see.

Why do you think that? I think just the opposite. Without Barkley I think they are a 4 win team last year.

Honestly, I dont know. Its not even anything tangible, its just a vibe that I get from him so its hard for me to articulate it. I agree about the 4 win part without him, but thats just because the guy behind him was pretty crappy. I'll be interested to see how they do if Max Browne wins the starting job next season.

For what its worth, I think Chip Kelly agree's with you. He never came out and directly said it but he always hinted and cryptically talked like he feared Barkley more then Luck.

 

[kearly]

Well, I think you are very incorrect.

But I will treat it like an incorrect opinion. There are no such things as incorrect opinions. You are always a pleasure to talk to, even when we disagree. Very classy.

 

[JSeahawks]

Well, I think you are very incorrect.

But I will treat it like an incorrect opinion. There are no such things as incorrect opinions.

Wouldnt be the first time (I thought Gabbert was going to be a stud!). The beauty of it is, we'll know soon enough.

Btw, gotta say I appreciate the way that you debate and argue. Actually paying attention to what the other person says and responding rather than just spewing the same opinions and screaming like they're facts over and over. I agree with you 99% of the time, we just seem to have pretty different opinions when it comes to QB's, except for Russell Wilson.

 

[kearly]

You are always a pleasure to talk to, even when we disagree. Very classy. I didn't love Gabbert but I thought he was just barely a better prospect than Cam Newton (oops).

I'll be interested to see how they do if Max Browne wins the starting job next season.

Moving on from Monte Kiffin can only help. I know he's a legend, but there's no denying it. He wasn't getting it done.

Still, as long as his Lane Kiffin is there, I don't see USC getting off the mat. I thought he was a terrible coach a year ago when 98% of this board wanted to suck his ****.

For what its worth, I think Chip Kelly agree's with you. He never came out and directly said it but he always hinted and cryptically talked like he feared Barkley more then Luck.

Yeah, I faintly remember that now that you mention it. I do think Barkley is probably screwed if he goes to Arizona. Not just because it's Arizona, but he needs pass protection and they don't have any.