Hawks vs rams post game thoughts.

[OrangeGravy]

I dont think you can put this all on the coaches.

Truth - Russell is the best qb tgr franchise has ever had.

Truth - it's been shown time and time again that his stature does impact his ability to see the whole field, particularly on crossing routes over the middle.

I think at some point you might have to consider that that limitation hands the defense a considerable advantage. They essentially don't have to cover a wide selection of routes and in particular, quick throws. After a while, the book is out on how to stop them. And every year becomes a scheming exercise as to how to draw up (or cover up) the offenses limitations. This year those schemes worked for 6 games until we were solved.. push the pocket up the middle,, stand up the o linemen. Clog up passing lanes and Russ will HAVE to hold the ball.

Not being able to hit over the middle, short and medium routes is a consistent issue and after 9 years, I find it hard to belive that coaches just refuse to call those plays because the just forget to. Either they are inept, or they should be hailed geniuses for working around those things the offense just can't do because of Russ's inability to hit certain throws.

Like I said, I love him. But at a certain point you have to weigh whether it's more likely that all the coaches are just insane, or that the issue is with the QB. Amd not his ability, talent, heart, smarts or HOF fight, but a simple limitation.

This is what I see as well. I went back and watched some sack footage of Russ this year to try to evaluate the “we only call deep shots” claim and what I saw were crossers, hitches, etc all over the place. Teams that were outplaying our OL would blanket those routes, but even when they weren’t blanketed, we just do not exercise those middle options as much as other NFL teams do routinely.

That results in Russ holding the ball and we say the routes are all long because anything over 5 yards is out of the broadcast picture. A 7 yard hitch takes almost no time to develop but you cannot see it in broadcast.

In early games we were more effective in the middle and I don’t know if that is a result of more man coverage so Russ doesn’t fear a lurker outside his throwing lane or what.

Bottom line, the trend is that especially in zone, I’d what the defense gives us is underneath, we can’t take it reliably.

I lean the same way as the both of you. It's impossible to accurately critique the OC from watching the broadcast angle. It's not much easier watching the coaches tape when you don't know what the call was and what the checks are on every single play.
At some point when you have a recurring problem that exists after coaching changes, you have lay blame with the common denominator. In this case there are 2, Russ and Pete. Now as a fan with practically zero knowledge of what's happening you have to decide who to blame. You either have accept that Russ is the bigger issue or that all of the coaches we've had giving input on offense over the years are the most incompetent offensive coaches to ever grace the league. I know which side I'd put my money on.

The truth as always is that the blame is gonna be split between Russ and Pete to some degree. I can see it being 60/40 Russ/Pete at best for Russ and I think most of Pete's blame lies is the admin realm more so than day to day game plan stuff.

 

[keasley45]

I dont think you can put this all on the coaches.

Truth - Russell is the best qb tgr franchise has ever had.

Truth - it's been shown time and time again that his stature does impact his ability to see the whole field, particularly on crossing routes over the middle.

I think at some point you might have to consider that that limitation hands the defense a considerable advantage. They essentially don't have to cover a wide selection of routes and in particular, quick throws. After a while, the book is out on how to stop them. And every year becomes a scheming exercise as to how to draw up (or cover up) the offenses limitations. This year those schemes worked for 6 games until we were solved.. push the pocket up the middle,, stand up the o linemen. Clog up passing lanes and Russ will HAVE to hold the ball.

Not being able to hit over the middle, short and medium routes is a consistent issue and after 9 years, I find it hard to belive that coaches just refuse to call those plays because the just forget to. Either they are inept, or they should be hailed geniuses for working around those things the offense just can't do because of Russ's inability to hit certain throws.

Like I said, I love him. But at a certain point you have to weigh whether it's more likely that all the coaches are just insane, or that the issue is with the QB. Amd not his ability, talent, heart, smarts or HOF fight, but a simple limitation.

This is what I see as well. I went back and watched some sack footage of Russ this year to try to evaluate the “we only call deep shots” claim and what I saw were crossers, hitches, etc all over the place. Teams that were outplaying our OL would blanket those routes, but even when they weren’t blanketed, we just do not exercise those middle options as much as other NFL teams do routinely.

That results in Russ holding the ball and we say the routes are all long because anything over 5 yards is out of the broadcast picture. A 7 yard hitch takes almost no time to develop but you cannot see it in broadcast.

In early games we were more effective in the middle and I don’t know if that is a result of more man coverage so Russ doesn’t fear a lurker outside his throwing lane or what.

Bottom line, the trend is that especially in zone, I’d what the defense gives us is underneath, we can’t take it reliably.

I lean the same way as the both of you. It's impossible to accurately critique the OC from watching the broadcast angle. It's not much easier watching the coaches tape when you don't know what the call was and what the checks are on every single play.
At some point when you have a recurring problem that exists after coaching changes, you have lay blame with the common denominator. In this case there are 2, Russ and Pete. Now as a fan with practically zero knowledge of what's happening you have to decide who to blame. You either have accept that Russ is the bigger issue or that all of the coaches we've had giving input on offense over the years are the most incompetent offensive coaches to ever grace the league. I know which side I'd put my money on.

The truth as always is that the blame is gonna be split between Russ and Pete to some degree. I can see it being 60/40 Russ/Pete at best for Russ and I think most of Pete's blame lies is the admin realm more so than day to day game plan stuff.

Agree 100%. Even listening to Pete this year post-game, there are times when he's wondered why we don't take the shorter stuff. And there have been several times when he's seemed as confused about what the passing strategy has been as anyone. We, on the outside, with our predisposition to lay blame at Pete for wanting to just pound the rock and play the game close, just assume that he's been upset at the 'let russ cook' strategy. I don't know that that's the whole story.

And so if Pete is confused then that pushes the responsibility to Schotty and Russ. And I'm sorry,but with Russ at year 9, I find it hard to believe that he isn't involved in the strategy and is just hopelessly walked out onto the field and forced to run what's called. I tbink its more likely that he and schotty develop the plan together and when it comes to the pass play selections that make it into the Sunday plan (and don't), Russ is with it.

Look, some QBs aren't mobile, so if they don't have protection, the are doomed to fail. Others can't throw deep outs. Others can't hit the long ball. Defenses figure them out and scheme to exploit those wesknesses, give those plays to the opposing offense more willingly, knowing the likelihood that the O will hit them is low. But what does it look like when you have a QB that can't hit hot routes close to the LOS or over the middle when a defense can get pressure consistently? I tbink it looks like what we have been seeing.

 

[hawkfan68]

Did the Seahawks pick up Dwayne Haskins? Because Seahawk #3 played an awful lot like him. Of course, not all of it is on RW. His OL, OC, and HC didn’t do him any favors.

 

[renofox]

I think AD is the most dominating player in the league and I don't think there is even an argument there... Clearly the Rams D is the best in the league they proved that tonight. You could look at this as being a complete loss or you could just call it what it is and give credit to where credit is due...

Pete Carroll isn't going anywhere...But the fan base will still call for his head rather than appreciate his accomplishments and that's fine...people are people and the negativity will always be there, it's what makes victory's that much sweeter...

This theory that the Hawks have to be perfect every year and if they are not then it's cause to blow it up is unrealistic IMO... The misunderstanding that people have concerning this season being something this team should not be proud of is ridiculous... Personally I'm really sad some of you didn't enjoy the season... I had a blast I was thoroughly entertained...

LTH

I appreciate PC's accomplishments and think he is the best HC the Seahawks' have ever had.

I am ready to move on.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I was optimistic about PC long after people were calling for his head. I was optimistic going into this game. I am not an over-reactive person (lost that about 40 years ago). :les:

I no longer have confidence in PC. He is not going to change anything substantive about his gameday philosophy that is woefully inadequate for playoff football. Since the failure in SB XLIX, he now has 6 years of playoff failures. The Seahawks will probably make the playoffs in at least 4 of the next 5 years, but will consistently exit early with another ugly, stupid, embarrassing showing. Has PC ever outcoached the opponent in the playoffs? With the talent and culture he built starting in 2012, the Seahawks should have won at least 3 trophies by now. Great organization builder, great talent developer, not too bad of a regular season coach, HORRIFIC in the playoffs. The odds of this team finding future playoff success is <5%.

 

[James in PA]

We hit rock bottom a few years back with the likes of Tom Cable and Eddie Lacy. We were so horrific that the current o-line and RBs were a welcome addition. But make no mistake about it: O-line and RB were never truly fixed. Carson cannot stay healthy and even if he could, he’s not that truly elite level of back that we need to get us deep into the playoffs.


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[BirdsCommaAngry]

Don't worry, guys. We'll bounce back next week. The Seahawks have yet to lose the week after losing a playoff game.