Harvin at RB for the read option only?

[Tical21]

I would be surprised if we didn't see some fly sweep action out of the shotgun, adding an element of misdirection to the read option.

 

[Tech Worlds]

I hate him running the ball. Too risky for injury.

Give him the ball in space, not between the tackles

 

[loafoftatupu]

I hate him running the ball. Too risky for injury.

Give him the ball in space, not between the tackles

Agreed... Besides, keeping Lynch in will give Harvin that space on the outside. I could see them catching the defense out of position on a couple plays here and there with Harvin in motion, but l don't want to see him lining up in the back field. The guy runs like a WR version of Lynch, but Lynch is a unique player.

I can even see some wasted timeouts in the opponent's future.

 

[FlyingGreg]

I think the whole notion of Harvin the backfield is generally overrated on here. It's going to be an exception, not the rule.

Don't forget when you put him the backfield, you probably take out Lynch or even Turbin. I think Turbin and/or Michael can be great 3rd down backs for us.

He will see a lot of plays from the backfield, if anything to pre-set the read for Wilson on coverage and make the defense pay attention. But I wouldn't expect a big volume of carries for him.

Regardless, the possibilities and dynamics with this offense is going to be fun to watch.

 

[Cartire]

I think people need to stop calling the read-option a gimmick play that is so easy for defense coordinators to figure out. The biggest reason is that the read-option is a play. Not a formation. Just cause we line up in the pistol or shotgun doesnt mean its a read-option play. People really need to get this through their heads. Read-option is a play. Therefor, its not a gimmick because its cant be deciphered before the snap with certainty.

The comparison to the wildcat is so laughable when you know this too. When the wildcat is in play, YOU KNOW ITS THE WILDCAT. When read-option is in play, you dont know till it happens.

As long as QB's have the smarts and skillset to run it correctly. It wont be going anywhere.

Its basically saying, "When defenses figure out the play-action pass, its gone"

 

[m0ng0]

I think people need to stop calling the read-option a gimmick play that is so easy for defense coordinators to figure out. The biggest reason is that the read-option is a play. Not a formation. Just cause we line up in the pistol or shotgun doesnt mean its a read-option play. People really need to get this through their heads. Read-option is a play. Therefor, its not a gimmick because its cant be deciphered before the snap with certainty.

The comparison to the wildcat is so laughable when you know this too. When the wildcat is in play, YOU KNOW ITS THE WILDCAT. When read-option is in play, you dont know till it happens.

As long as QB's have the smarts and skillset to run it correctly. It wont be going anywhere.

Its basically saying, "When defenses figure out the play-action pass, its gone"

:th2thumbs:

 

[Tical21]

The read option will be gone soon, except for teams that don't have any other choice. In the Super Bowl, the Ravens were hiting Kaep every time they ran it, whether or not he handed the ball off. Teams are going to start forgetting about the running back, regardless of whether or not it is successful, and assign a guy to hit the QB ever single play. This isn't college. There is a huge difference between the franchise QB and the backup in the NFL, and once a few of the QB's start getting injured, it will go away. It isn't necessarily a lack of success that will kill the read option, it is going to be the hits the QB takes.

I want Percy all over the field, getting the ball as often as he can, any way he can get it. He is that amazing. We're not going to pass the ball 40 times a game, and when we do, we're going to spread it around, so Percy isn't going to catch enough balls to maximize his talent. It is all on Bevell. Percy isn't going to be running up the middle, so Bevell needs to find creative ways to get him into space. Like I said previously, I expect a lot of fly sweep action, similar to what the Huskies run.

 

[cockeyhawk]

Watching the ducks destroy collin klein last year in there bowl game really popped into my mind on how to stop the read option in the nfl. Ok you can keep giving it your running back but were going to drill your qb every time. Our defense knows the qb isn't going to have the ball as hes target number 1 every time. Yeah your down a defender now but your qb just got smashed, cant do that more then 3 times a game all season. Russel Wilson stopped running the ball as often after week 16, they ran the read option but he never kept it. I have been thinking this all off season too, ill go ahead and point out week 8 how the read option isn't apart of the seahawks offense with Wilson running.

 

[kearly]

IMO, the read option is going away for the most part. There are a few specific defenses we can target with it, I think the Bills game was a great example. But for the most part, it will have to go. I expect Percy to see a few looks form the read option, but it will hardly be a staple.

Count me in among the group who think the read option is going to not revolutionize the NFL. There are two ways to stop it. First, get a fast edge defense like ours. Difficult. 2nd, do what the slow ass Ravens did and just hit the QB every time he keeps or hands off. Doesn't matter, just hit the QB. Put the onus on the officials to call penalties that they shouldn't. The whole point of the RO is to make the DE choose the QB or RB, just have him choose the QB every time and leave the RB for a linebacker or safety. Let him punish both the OC and QB for even thinking read option.

I don't think that second tactic will do much to stop gigantic RO QBs like Kaepernick and Freeman, though. Most linebackers are 4-5 inches shorter than Kaep (6'5") and Freeman (6'6"). Both weigh about 10-20 pounds more than most LBs. It's also pretty hard to lay a lick on very fast players. Just watch Tavon Austin in college. Wilson took very few hits on QB keepers because hitting Wilson on the move is like trying to hit a squirrel in the yard (that plus Wilson isn't a dummy about his keeper decisions). Now, if we are talking RG3, or Michael Vick, then yeah. Teams are going to tee off on them, no doubt. Maybe they already were.

The Ravens defense pretty much got their asses handed to them by Kaepernick, btw. He had very good numbers and his team scored 31 points. They might have won if the officials weren't terrified to alter the game on a 4th down call, and really the only reason the Ravens won was because Joe Flacco was pretty damn impressive that day.

I think the first tactic will work, but it is difficult to obtain such personnel and even teams that have that kind of speed would still be at a disadvantage having to compensate for read option compared to a non-mobile QB. It's always going to be an advantage for the offense, and I don't see it going away, though teams might only opt to do it if they believe their QB is either very smart or very durable in addition to being very mobile. If injuries become a very serious issue for RO, I think at the very least it will linger as a wrinkle that's used on occasion, much like how the Seahawks used it in 2012.

 

[Tical21]

IMO, the read option is going away for the most part. There are a few specific defenses we can target with it, I think the Bills game was a great example. But for the most part, it will have to go. I expect Percy to see a few looks form the read option, but it will hardly be a staple.

Count me in among the group who think the read option is going to not revolutionize the NFL. There are two ways to stop it. First, get a fast edge defense like ours. Difficult. 2nd, do what the slow ass Ravens did and just hit the QB every time he keeps or hands off. Doesn't matter, just hit the QB. Put the onus on the officials to call penalties that they shouldn't. The whole point of the RO is to make the DE choose the QB or RB, just have him choose the QB every time and leave the RB for a linebacker or safety. Let him punish both the OC and QB for even thinking read option.

I don't think that second tactic will do much to stop gigantic RO QBs like Kaepernick and Freeman, though. Most linebackers are 4-5 inches shorter than Kaep (6'5") and Freeman (6'6"). Both weigh about 10-20 pounds more than most LBs. It's also pretty hard to lay a lick on very fast players. Just watch Tavon Austin in college. Wilson took very few hits on QB keepers because hitting Wilson on the move is like trying to hit a squirrel in the yard (that plus Wilson isn't a dummy about his keeper decisions). Now, if we are talking RG3, or Michael Vick, then yeah. Teams are going to tee off on them, no doubt. Maybe they already were.

The Ravens defense pretty much got their asses handed to them by Kaepernick, btw. He had very good numbers and his team scored 31 points. They might have won if the officials weren't terrified to alter the game on a 4th down call, and really the only reason the Ravens won was because Joe Flacco was pretty damn impressive that day.

I think the first tactic will work, but it is difficult to obtain such personnel and even teams that have that kind of speed would still be at a disadvantage having to compensate for read option compared to a non-mobile QB. It's always going to be an advantage for the offense, and I don't see it going away, though teams might only opt to do it if they believe their QB is either very smart or very durable in addition to being very mobile. If injuries become a very serious issue for RO, I think at the very least it will linger as a wrinkle that's used on occasion, much like how the Seahawks used it in 2012.

I dunno man, Kaep got popped by Suggs a good handful of times. Whether the QB is bigger or not, those are hits on a very expensive and important unarmed player. I guarantee you if they were to play the Ravens again soon, they wouldn't run that play very often.

 

[JesterHawk]

Man, I was just starting to manage to contain myself and coast through the next few weeks. Thanks again, .NET. Now I'm out of my mind with crazed enthusiasm again.

 

[Scottemojo]

IMO, the read option is going away for the most part. There are a few specific defenses we can target with it, I think the Bills game was a great example. But for the most part, it will have to go. I expect Percy to see a few looks form the read option, but it will hardly be a staple.

Count me in among the group who think the read option is going to not revolutionize the NFL. There are two ways to stop it. First, get a fast edge defense like ours. Difficult. 2nd, do what the slow ass Ravens did and just hit the QB every time he keeps or hands off. Doesn't matter, just hit the QB. Put the onus on the officials to call penalties that they shouldn't. The whole point of the RO is to make the DE choose the QB or RB, just have him choose the QB every time and leave the RB for a linebacker or safety. Let him punish both the OC and QB for even thinking read option.

I don't think that second tactic will do much to stop gigantic RO QBs like Kaepernick and Freeman, though. Most linebackers are 4-5 inches shorter than Kaep (6'5") and Freeman (6'6"). Both weigh about 10-20 pounds more than most LBs. It's also pretty hard to lay a lick on very fast players. Just watch Tavon Austin in college. Wilson took very few hits on QB keepers because hitting Wilson on the move is like trying to hit a squirrel in the yard (that plus Wilson isn't a dummy about his keeper decisions). Now, if we are talking RG3, or Michael Vick, then yeah. Teams are going to tee off on them, no doubt. Maybe they already were.

The Ravens defense pretty much got their asses handed to them by Kaepernick, btw. He had very good numbers and his team scored 31 points. They might have won if the officials weren't terrified to alter the game on a 4th down call, and really the only reason the Ravens won was because Joe Flacco was pretty damn impressive that day.

I think the first tactic will work, but it is difficult to obtain such personnel and even teams that have that kind of speed would still be at a disadvantage having to compensate for read option compared to a non-mobile QB. It's always going to be an advantage for the offense, and I don't see it going away, though teams might only opt to do it if they believe their QB is either very smart or very durable in addition to being very mobile. If injuries become a very serious issue for RO, I think at the very least it will linger as a wrinkle that's used on occasion, much like how the Seahawks used it in 2012.

I disagree. The Ravens team that took the field after the lights went out was lacking some of the nasty, after the game their defensive players admitted that they went from attack to playing on their heels. That was when Kaep did most of his damage.

However, that last series in the RZ, Kaep acted like a guy who had been hit a bunch in a football game. To look at stats and say the strategy didn't work is missing the point. Kaep took a lot of hits and failed in the clutch both running and passing.

Lets also clarify this, we are talking primarily about the pistol formation. QB 4 yards behind center, at least one back. Hitting the QB every time would only apply to runs from that formation. Clearly, passing from the pistol invokes rules protecting QBs.

I look at it like this, there are only a handful of teams in the NFL with the athleticism on defense to play a Pistol read option straight up. The rest are going to have to use some other method to get signal callers to reduce it's use. Early in the game, having the DE commit to hitting the QB every time he play fakes then hands off. Unless that signal caller is Shanahan, who will call a pistol read option when his QB is on life support.

I love the pistol formation for the Seahawks, mostly because I trust Wilson to make good decisions. And I like that Bevell uses it so sparingly that it can be taken out of the gameplan if need be, even mid game. I don't think it is ever going away as an option, simply because it allows young QBs to export some of their college skills so quickly to the NFL game. But it does give license to defenses to hit your QB, which is the reason I don't expect it to be the primary offense for very many teams.

If Wilson gets hurt after handing the ball off to a RB from the pistol formation in a read option play, the press and a big portion of fans will skewer the coaches. Just like they did with Shanahan.

 

[pehawk]

I'm with kearly here, Scotte. The pistol/spread is here to stay. Gruden's been threatening to run it upon his never returning (he's content being Madden's equal and afterbirth) and Kelly BETTER go 3 knuckles in with it this year.

The QB's are bigger, faster and stronger. The QB's coming out CAN do it. It may end up being a flavor of the week, like Jones, Pardee and Glanville, but its going to get a good run in the league. IMO, it's going to work and be a GODSEND for the league.

Actually, I think the Jags may end up trumping the Eagles as far as utilizing it the most. Not only did they draft as if they we're running it, it's something their deliciously elegant, and beautiful supermodel QB can and will run (he'll always have long hair in my mind).

 

[ImTheScientist]

that would be my hope i don't think they need him doing too much. But in three WR sets(Rice,Tate,and Baldwin) w/Harvin at RB would seem damn near impossible to cover everyone and thats not even mentioning R. Wilson's mobility. should keep alot of D-coordinators up at night.

I don't understand at ALL why that would be your hope.

 

[Scottemojo]

I kinda painted myself into a corner by saying it would go away for the most part. I should have said that teams that run it too much are going to pay a heavy price in injured quarterbacks. Like the Redskins did. Wise DCs will let signal callers know early on in games they are committed to beating on option QBs. Wise DCs will design blitzes to take away both run options. Wise signal callers will call more passing plays from read option looks to take advantage of those blitzes. Saying it would evolve to a more honest passing look would be a smarter statement than saying it will go away. So, stupid me.

You use Philly as an example. Vick is a candle. Foles is big, but stupid, so he can't sustain the pistol/spread, or any other QB skill for that matter. Barkley doesn't scare anyone with his wheels. Dixon could do it a little, but he won't last either.

Cam Newton is big and strong, no doubt. he was no problem for our D. some folks think Carolina runs the looks they do because they want to take advantage of Newton's skills, I think they run those looks because Newton can't drop back and consistently make a bunch of reads. Newton needs the simplicity of the option read, IMO. Neither he nor Kaepernick has shown any talent for finding 2nd and third options from play action, so they use RO to compensate. Both guys looked like fish trying to walk when they first took snaps from under center, they need option looks so they can make safeties and LBs play honestly.

RGIII is the exception. I really think that guy is good enough to play action without read option. I just hope he survives Shanahan.

Other guys are promising read option, like Jake Locker. Do you really think that scares many teams? Just hit him. Same for Blaine, he hasn't shown much toughness so far. Geno? Guy is part wench. The guy Buffalo got, EJ, he might be able to do it right away.

I don't think it is a gimmick, I just think there aren't enough QBs who are tough enough to run the offense for an entire season if it is the team's staple play. I like the way we used it as an out pitch a lot more.

 

[ImTheScientist]

IMO, the read option is going away for the most part. There are a few specific defenses we can target with it, I think the Bills game was a great example. But for the most part, it will have to go. I expect Percy to see a few looks form the read option, but it will hardly be a staple.

Count me in among the group who think the read option is going to not revolutionize the NFL. There are two ways to stop it. First, get a fast edge defense like ours. Difficult. 2nd, do what the slow ass Ravens did and just hit the QB every time he keeps or hands off. Doesn't matter, just hit the QB. Put the onus on the officials to call penalties that they shouldn't. The whole point of the RO is to make the DE choose the QB or RB, just have him choose the QB every time and leave the RB for a linebacker or safety. Let him punish both the OC and QB for even thinking read option.

I don't think that second tactic will do much to stop gigantic RO QBs like Kaepernick and Freeman, though.

Josh Freeman ran a 4.97 40 yard dash at the combine. Don't think you will see him running it and not sure I would put him at Kaepernick in the same sentence when talking about it.

 

[pehawk]

Oooooooo, great point on the Bill's, Scotte. Now THAT may be the team to perfect its use.

IMO, Manuel has the potential to be just as savvy avoiding hits, as RW. Manuel's ALOT more cerebral than he gets credit for. That's the horse I'd run with, IF, forced to rely upon the pistol/spread.

I'm just damn excited its coming. I've been shouting on this board for while it can work. Great god damn time to be a NFL fan, for sure.

 

[Hawks46]

IMO, the read option is going away for the most part. There are a few specific defenses we can target with it, I think the Bills game was a great example. But for the most part, it will have to go. I expect Percy to see a few looks form the read option, but it will hardly be a staple.

Count me in among the group who think the read option is going to not revolutionize the NFL. There are two ways to stop it. First, get a fast edge defense like ours. Difficult. 2nd, do what the slow ass Ravens did and just hit the QB every time he keeps or hands off. Doesn't matter, just hit the QB. Put the onus on the officials to call penalties that they shouldn't. The whole point of the RO is to make the DE choose the QB or RB, just have him choose the QB every time and leave the RB for a linebacker or safety. Let him punish both the OC and QB for even thinking read option.

I don't think that second tactic will do much to stop gigantic RO QBs like Kaepernick and Freeman, though. Most linebackers are 4-5 inches shorter than Kaep (6'5") and Freeman (6'6"). Both weigh about 10-20 pounds more than most LBs. It's also pretty hard to lay a lick on very fast players. Just watch Tavon Austin in college. Wilson took very few hits on QB keepers because hitting Wilson on the move is like trying to hit a squirrel in the yard (that plus Wilson isn't a dummy about his keeper decisions). Now, if we are talking RG3, or Michael Vick, then yeah. Teams are going to tee off on them, no doubt. Maybe they already were.

The Ravens defense pretty much got their asses handed to them by Kaepernick, btw. He had very good numbers and his team scored 31 points. They might have won if the officials weren't terrified to alter the game on a 4th down call, and really the only reason the Ravens won was because Joe Flacco was pretty damn impressive that day.

I think the first tactic will work, but it is difficult to obtain such personnel and even teams that have that kind of speed would still be at a disadvantage having to compensate for read option compared to a non-mobile QB. It's always going to be an advantage for the offense, and I don't see it going away, though teams might only opt to do it if they believe their QB is either very smart or very durable in addition to being very mobile. If injuries become a very serious issue for RO, I think at the very least it will linger as a wrinkle that's used on occasion, much like how the Seahawks used it in 2012.

Bingo. I agree with both you and Scotte, but the RO will be an aspect of offense, not the complete thing....unless you get a team that is completely all in on the RO, then you could ostensibly draft a starting and backup QB with similar skill sets and athleticism, and when your starter goes down you don't have to downshift the offense as the RO simplifies the reads. But I digress.

The thing that impressed me about RW is that when he decided to run more, he took very few hits. He's really smart about getting down, or getting out of bounds. Newton has taken a lot of hits so far in his NFL career, and he's stayed healthy. It will be interesting to see how long that lasts.

Also, I tend to agree with Scotte on the SB. The Ravens as a team played completely different after the power outage. That game was a dumpster fire before the lights went down; it's why I find it hilarious when Niners fans spout they were 5 yards away from a ring. If that game kept going uninterrupted, they were 40 points away from a ring. Kaepernick seemed off his game up until he could catch a breath, but that could be big game jitters from what is in reality a rookie QB. Or, it could've been the Ravens defense beating him up.

 

[Cartire]

I should have said that teams that run it too much are going to pay a heavy price in injured quarterbacks. Like the Redskins did.

I need to highlight this to tell you your information is incorrect. And this is how bad information spreads.

-Last year, RG3 got hurt against the Falcons, on a scramble down the field.
-He got hurt against Baltimore on a scramble
-He got hurt against us the first time being hit as he was scrambling to find an open receiver
-He got hurt the second time against us on a sack from Bruce Irvin
-And finally he was so hurt at that point his knee just gave out on its own due to prior injuries and crappy turf from a botched snap

You'll notice a big factor in all of these. The RO was never a part of any of these injuries.

Run properly, the RO is the QB's best friend because, if hes smart, he can stay out of danger by either handing the ball off or keeping it. DE crashing the middle, keep it. DE rushing the outside, Hand it off. Everyone just assumes the RO is a QB bootleg scramble where the defense is crashing down on them. Its a designed read to prevent the ball carrier from having crashing lineman.

 

[Sarlacc83]

I should have said that teams that run it too much are going to pay a heavy price in injured quarterbacks. Like the Redskins did.

I need to highlight this to tell you your information is incorrect. And this is how bad information spreads.

-Last year, RG3 got hurt against the Falcons, on a scramble down the field.
-He got hurt against Baltimore on a scramble
-He got hurt against us the first time being hit as he was scrambling to find an open receiver
-He got hurt the second time against us on a sack from Bruce Irvin
-And finally he was so hurt at that point his knee just gave out on its own due to prior injuries and crappy turf from a botched snap

You'll notice a big factor in all of these. The RO was never a part of any of these injuries.

Run properly, the RO is the QB's best friend because, if hes smart, he can stay out of danger by either handing the ball off or keeping it. DE crashing the middle, keep it. DE rushing the outside, Hand it off. Everyone just assumes the RO is a QB bootleg scramble where the defense is crashing down on them. Its a designed read to prevent the ball carrier from having crashing lineman.

You're ignoring the cumulative effect of all the hits he took while running the read-option here. Just because RGIII didn't get hurt on a specific play doesn't mean the effect wasn't felt.