Golden Tate has more yards than...

[Tokadub]

Golden Tate has more yards (495) than...

Baldwin (187) + Kearse (168) + Harvin (133) = 488 yards COMBINED

Now I realize the Lions have played 1 more game than us since they haven't had their bye yet...

But still that is quite an eye popping stat for me, our passing game is all kinds of whack right now.

And I know everyone's gonna say "Oh, well of course he has more yards than our top 3 receivers combined! The Lions throw the ball 35 times a game!"

You could never convince me that Matt Stafford is a better QB than Russell Wilson. Right now Tate is averaging less than 9 targets per game (8.83) which isn't that much more than he averaged for us last season (6.125).

Even though Tate is tied for 6th in total receiving yards right now, HE IS AVERAGING LESS YARDS PER CATCH THIS SEASON (13) THAN HE DID LAST SEASON (14).

In comparison our leading receiver Baldwin is targeted only 4.8 times a game.

Baldwin was targeted just 3 times yesterday against the Cowboys which is tied with Bryan Walters!!! Baldwin was also targeted less than Kearse (7), Luke Willson (6), and Harvin (4).

We are currently ranked 31st in passing yards per game (186), which wouldn't necessarily be that huge of a problem this early in the season except that we are now 3-2 and Wilson has averaged 164 passing yards in our two losses.

Right now our leading receiver Baldwin is on pace for 598.4 yards, which I wouldn't be surprised if that's the lowest of any team's "#1 Receiver" right now?

Golden Tate is on pace for 1320 yards, a number I think every knowledgeable Seahawks fan would concede is impossible for any Seahawks receiver. But yet we had Tate last year and he was our #1 receiver with 898 yards, but this year he is currently on pace for 147% of the yards he had last year.

Basically the Seahawks Tate (version 1.0) is now the Lions Tate (version 2.0) and he's about 150% better so far in terms of total yards productivity.


SO WHAT THE HECK IS MY POINT?

Well originally the stat that Tate has more yards than our 3 top receivers combined really stands out to me... but this topic is deeper than that.

My real point here is that the Seahawks do not know how to effectively utilize their talent on offense.

Not many people (even Seahawks fans) would ever think Tate was a receiver that could ever be on pace for over 1300 yards. Why? Because our offense made him look worst than he really is, we didn't give him the same opportunities to shine that the Lions are.

BEVELL DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO UTILIZE TALENT EFFECTIVELY.

Or maybe Pete is holding him back with this conservative cutesie stuff we are seeing this year.

When we are a team with no true #1 Wide Receiver (Harvin isn't anywhere close to that so far at least), than why in the world did we trade the closest thing we had to a #1 in Golden Tate? IT MAKES NO SENSE!

Tate was our best receiver for bailing out Wilson on broken plays, he was great at improvising. Harvin on the other hand does not improvise at all, he seems to start jogging once he reaches the end of his route. I never see Harvin busting out to save Wilson and cut back on a broken play like Tate did. We are REALLY missing a safety net receiver which is kinda what Tate was.

And without Norwood we don't really have anyone who can go up and get jump balls in traffic. I'd say Tate was better than Kearse in that regard even though he was significantly smaller... at least Tate was more consistent than Kearse and had a much higher catch rate.

In other words we now have no good receiver to improvise broken plays which is 100% necessary for Wilson with our terrible offensive line. And we have no guy I really trust to consistently come down with jump balls in traffic. Wilson is simply not pulling the trigger for our receivers he doesn't trust them enough...

And now we have Bryan Walters... don't even get me started with how bad this guy is. We go from Tate to Walters on punt returns which is a joke, and then WE ARE ACTUALLY USING WALTERS AS A WIDE RECEIVER INSTEAD OF NORWOOD OR RICHARDSON OR PRETTY MUCH ANYONE ELSE?!


CONCLUSION:

Sometimes you don't know what you had until it's gone. It was a stupid move to trade Tate when he was our #1 WR or at least tied for it in BOTH OF Russell Wilson's first 2 seasons.

Bevell continues to fail to use our personnel to their full potential, I totally agree with Baldwin's post game statements about how we are way too (expletive) good to be playing this bad.

We should never use Walters as a Wide Receiver and I'd rather kick him off the team for good and just plop anyone else back there on punt returns if we could get any of these other guys playing time in his place:

- Norwood
- Christine Michael
- Paul Richardson
- Phil Bates (ya I went there Walters is that bad) :stirthepot:

Bryan Walters is a lot like Turbin. He get's a lot of playing time inexcusably, the coaches must really love him. He is clearly bad and doesn't fit our system well in any way shape or form. Turbin prevents a more talented player from getting reps (Christine Michael) just like Walters prevents multiple far superior players from playing (see list above).

AND NOW BEVELL HAS GONE "FULL ON... (Tropic Thunder quote)"...

We aren't even using Marshawn Lynch anymore... I just don't know what to say anymore... :177692:

I think Tate is a good example of a player being under utilized in our Offense, but that's in the past we screwed up BIG TIME letting him go.

All we can hope for now is that Bevell and Carroll, really the whole coaching staff pulls their collective heads out of their you know whats and starts playing some good, sound, intelligent, and high percentage offense. Our defense isn't gonna carry us again this season, it's time for our Offense to step up big time and stop playing like amateurs.

Most importantly it's time to use our best players. Stop goofing around with all these guys that don't even belong on the field, and start feeding the Beast.


I really question Bevell and why he has the job unless Carroll is forcing him to try this stuff. Even after just spending like 1 hour the other day watching the Cowboy's last 2 games in condensed format it seems like I had a better idea of how to run this offense than Bevell.

Bevell has weeks to prepare, that's his job. How much money does he get payed to do this and he doesn't even give Lynch more than 10 carries or realize such simple things about the Cowboys defense that I stated here in Aros' Prediction Thread after 1 hour of watching the Cowboys... ukeface:

The weakness in the Cowboys Pass Defense appears to be in the middle of the field. It seems like we almost never pass the ball to that area.

If we keep passing it out wide that seems to be the strength of Dallas's defense, and I suspect they will have a boatload of nice tackles on us for minimal gains.

However the Cowboy's Rush Defense could be our saving grace, I think Harvin especially but also Wilson and Lynch might need to have huge rushing games to ensure a comfortable victory.

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98096&start=50

You would think I was a legit psychic with that kind of talk compared to Bevell's gameplan... except it's so blatantly OBVIOUS!!! :stirthepot:

What happened? We passed the ball out wide A TON! We ran pretty much all of our plays out wide and we got DESTROYED.

WE NEVER EXPLOITED THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD WHICH IS THEIR OBVIOUS WEAKNESS!

Harvin had 7 plays if you include an incompletion and he ended the day with -1 yards!

Lynch had 10 rushing attempts and we only had 18 attempts as a team!


I just don't know what to say anymore, I'm disgusted with this play calling and our inability to utilize talent appropriately... does Bevell really not understand this stuff or is he just trying to lose?

 

[SomersetHawk]

Despite most of them being near-apocalyptic, I always enjoy your posts more than most, and probably more than I should. You should consider creating one of those post game rant channels on YouTube.

Tate also had himself a poor game yesterday, or rather, Stafford did. In fact, Stafford's been pretty lame the whole season and Tate's still been really productive. He was offering home town discount and no doubt would have taken less than the Detroit deal. Looks like poor business on our part but let's not dwell on it, he's gone, and I'm happy for him that he's doing so well.

 

[ZorntoLargent]

Just like last year is gone and done, so is Tate. Why are we talking about him?

 

[Rob12]

Just like last year is gone and done, so is Tate. Why are we talking about him?

Did you read his post?

It's less about Golden Tate and more about the fact that our offensive coordinator gets the bare minimum out of our offensive talent.

 

[652cHAWK]

Tate was our best receiver for bailing out Wilson on broken plays, he was great at improvising. Harvin on the other hand does not improvise at all, he seems to start jogging once he reaches the end of his route. I never see Harvin busting out to save Wilson and cut back on a broken play like Tate did. We are REALLY missing a safety net receiver which is kinda what Tate was.

A lot of truth to this; last year Bucs(at home), @ Falcons, @ Arizona, and @ St.Louis are great examples of Tate's WR and special teams contributions.

 

[ZorntoLargent]

Just like last year is gone and done, so is Tate. Why are we talking about him?

Did you read his post?

It's less about Golden Tate and more about the fact that our offensive coordinator gets the bare minimum out of our offensive talent.

If it wasn't about Tate, then why use his stats?
Alshon Jeffery has 495 yards. Why bring up sour grapes Tate?

 

[Jacknut16]

Just like last year is gone and done, so is Tate. Why are we talking about him?

Did you read his post?

It's less about Golden Tate and more about the fact that our offensive coordinator gets the bare minimum out of our offensive talent.

Nobody wants to hear this but we have a QB who needs big sight lines to deliver quick passes from the pocket.

Rw is so smart that he can take advantage from the pocket when its there, but if you are going to ask him to sit in the pocket and throw accurate passes like Rivers, Manning, Rodgers, Brady to well covered WRs its just not going to happen.

We had Gates blanketed, and Rivers still dropped them in on us, we just dont return that favor. You could put RW on the Chargers and Gates numbers would go WAY down.

RW is great at what he does, but he needs to make the space with his legs and feet to get the lanes to throw in.

What does all this mean?
-That we dont have many play options from a direct drop and QB pitch and catch from the pocket.
-Its why we see all these gimmicky plays week in and week out from the offense.
-Everyone just jumps on Bevell, but the gimmicks and play calling is just as much Carroll now as it is Bevell. If there was such an issue with "bad plays" being called as everyone thinks, Carroll would address it.
-The bottom line is we dont have Rodgers, Rivers or Manning throwing darts to WRs, we have a guy who we need to get into nice throwing lanes, or out in space. It worked to win a superbowl last season, and it could work again, but with a team with less depth and losing Tate, Wilsons bail out WR, its going to be VERY tough to do.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Tate has been lining up opposite Calvin Johnson...AM I supposed to be impressed when Johnson gets all the attention and Tate is left in favorable situations?

Johnson was out yesterday and Tate got 12 Targets and 7 catches but 44 yards. Harvin on the year has 22 targets. In fact on the year Tate has 53 targets and Harvin, Kearse and Baldwin have 60 something targets.

The sad thing to me about Harvin is he has 22 catches on 26 targets and almost half of those are behind the LOS. He only has 1 pass that was caught past 10 yards

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I understand your frustration Toka because I was a bigger Tate fan than ADB fan. Unfortunately it takes situations like this for a quiet confident player like Tate to prove he is a great player.
I remember how some Hawks fans said Tate couldn't get separation and wasn't as clutch as ADB. I hated that so many fans turned on Golden for showboating yet admired ADB for his yapping. Truth is Tate is quietly proving his worth while ADB is struggling and bitching. I know some fans like ADB's competitive nature but I think his bitching is more self-serving than people realize and i hope we dont have to suffer the ire of ADB too much as he may continue to struggle in this less talented offense. Sure we have Harvin but we are working him into our lineup along with Lockette and Walters. This time last year we had RW in year 2 with Rice, Tate, ADB and Kearse. This year we also have an OC who is determined to use Harvin much like he did in Minny--as an extension of the run game. Marshawn has great hands and is tough to tackle 1 on 1 BUT he is NOT a receiver. Dont split him wide and hope he can separate and make catches while covered.
I think fans pretty much nailed it when they say we are losing our identity.

 

[northseahawk]

Its funny how last year the same was being said about Tate not good enough, not creating separation, etc, etc. Now we realize that Tate is/was an elite wr with better play calling, better coaching, and a qb who can actually throw forward and not just screen passes. Its not all on the OC. What should he do whenever he calls a passing play, RW refuses to throw or just takes off?? Its happened all season long and I assume Bevell then comes back to the simple screens again. Yes Wilson won us 2 of our 3 games, but they were basically/only because of his scrambling. This is the NFL and scrambling won't work for the 3rd time. He needs to pass and complete passes and throw into tight coverages sometimes to give his receivers a chance.

The only positive thing i see is that because of the level of talent on this team (as Baldwin explained) it requires the best performances from the best teams and the worst performance from us, to beat us. I think its Pete's time to stick a rod or two up OC and RW to get this ship back on tract.

 

[HawkFan72]

The sad thing to me about Harvin is he has 22 catches on 26 targets and almost half of those are behind the LOS. He only has 1 pass that was caught past 10 yards

Yeah, and the frustrating part is that he could have success past 10 yards if they would let him.

That 41 yard TD last week was what I wish we would see more of. That was a play that WORKED (the penalty had nothing to do with the play working) and yet Bevell didn't do anything like that this week to try and do more of the same.

Harvin is FAST. He can get past a Defense and stretch the field. But we never use him that way, except for last week. And when it actually worked, they scrap it.

 

[hox]

He was a physical blocker in the run game and downfield as well. "The Sean lee treatment"

Right now this offense minus Lynch Miller Tate and Giacomini is not physical at all.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Tate's having a great year, but he's also in a offense that throws the ball 50 times a game.

So the question in the off season wasn't do we want Golden back, it was is he worth spending 6-7M a season on for a running offense?.......and that answer was no, and it should have been no. Detroit may have overpaid in our eyes, but they throw the ball, so they didn't for them. Overpaid is in the scheme of the offense.

 

[YaktownHawK]

:sarcasm_on: We traded Tate, funny I thought he left via free agency

 

[edogg23]

Interesting read, thanks for breaking it down! I know I had visions of Percy and Richardson giving defenses fits with their speed downfield while still trying to stop the beast. Instead we are left with handoffs to Percy, passes behind the line thst haven't worked for weeks, and deep balls to Kearse. Oh and when we do actually run the ball with Lynch it's the same exact read option run up the middle every time.

 

[Chapow]

Right, and if Tate were on this team, playing in this offense, he would most likely have under 200 yds on the season just like Baldwin, Kearse, and Harvin.

This is not a prolific passing offense. We had one of the lowest ranked passing offenses last season with Tate. We have one of the lowest ranked passing offenses this season without Tate.

Does anyone really think that Tate would have been the difference in either the SD game or the Dallas game?

 

[SomersetHawk]

Tate's having a great year, but he's also in a offense that throws the ball 50 times a game.

So the question in the off season wasn't do we want Golden back, it was is he worth spending 6-7M a season on for a running offense?.......and that answer was no, and it should have been no. Detroit may have overpaid in our eyes, but they throw the ball, so they didn't for them. Overpaid is in the scheme of the offense.

Actually, they're averaging a surprisingly low 35 pass attempts per game. And Golden was offering hometown discount, he'd have stayed for less than $6M, we supposedly offered about $4M.

Still, little point in having this discussion, we miss him on punt returns more than anything.

 

[Blitzer88]

I miss Tate................

 

[Popeyejones]

Does anyone really think that Tate would have been the difference in either the SD game or the Dallas game?

IMO several of the areas where Tate most excelled weren't that flashy:

FLASHY:

*Punt Returns
*Great body positioning and pulling down tough catches.

NOT FLASHY, BUT JUST AS IMPORTANT:

*Eking out a couple extra yards on receptions by playing like a RB with the ball in his hands.
*Blocking
* Finding holes in coverage and coming back to shadown Wilson while he's switching back and dodging rushers like a savant/crazy person.

It's those last two where Tate's absence was really missed this game.

 

[Tokadub]

Tate has been lining up opposite Calvin Johnson...AM I supposed to be impressed when Johnson gets all the attention and Tate is left in favorable situations?

You do realize that Tate's best game so far against the Buffalo Bills Calvin Johnson got injured in THAT game and he was only targeted ONCE.

Tate picked up 134 yards catching 7/9 passes.

That ONE game from Tate is MORE THAN 5 FROM HARVIN SO FAR (133 yards)!

That shouldn't happen... our Offense is totally mind boggling right now with it's inability to pick up first downs or get our best players involved.