Geno vs The Jets

[Spin Doctor]

I dont think he did anything to help his case for being re-signed. I honsetly dont think there will be much he can do to help that if things stay as they are.

Worst case scenario IMO, we let Geno walk and fool ourselves into thinking Howell can make better music out of this mess.

He doesnt have the cerebral game, so the only way he functions in a Grubb system is to run around like he did in Washington. I have zero interest in seeing that again.

So then the only other option is to pair Howell with another OC or get both new oc and qb, in which case we have hit the reset but twice in 4 years, and this time on the sude of the ball that SHOULD have been a strength had we found the right guy to run it.

Best case IMO, we extend Geno on another short term deal, give him a little raise, and load him up with incentives and a new OC in 2025.

If our OC and O Line werent a liability, we woukdnt be debating Geno.

But from Geno's perspective, i wouldnt take a bargain deal. I'd look for a better situation with a real OC and functional O line. To date, the situation in Seattle has been a win-win for both sides. Moving forward the Hawks benefit more for getting him at a bargain 'middle of the pack price' than he does for staying with a team that since he has been here, hasnt been able to establish a direction or identity on offense.

If i am Geno, i play out the deal and look elsewhere.

Geno is still signed for a full year. He's made it known that he's looking for a new deal. I think at this point though, it makes sense for both parties to ride out the contract. Smith did himself no favors this year. The line has sucked, but the past three weeks it has been better. Despite this Geno Smith has still struggled. Geno also has one of the best wide receiver corps in the NFL all across the board. We're likely going to have two 1k receivers and Lockett is still good as a slot receiver with a lesser role. It's at least top 10, likely top 5 with the emergence of JSN and Lockett being solid in the slot role.

I think after 3 years of Geno we know what he is. An above average QB with some serious consistency issues and major blindspots in his game. He isn't a bottom tier QB by any means, but even when things have all worked right he's looked frustratingly inconsistent.

The thing about Geno that is frustrating is that he's above the easily replaceable level, but has some of the same pitfalls as a journeyman QB. He sometimes is zoned in with the talent of an elite QB, but other times looks like a rookie QB. His processing speed is sometimes on point, other times his processing speed is like AOL Dialup. Most of this, mind you is when he's having time to throw that I'm talking about.

The worst aspect about Geno though, bar none is his inability to score in the redzone. Seattle had one of the worst redzone offenses last year, that trend has carried over to this year. Geno's redzone stats last season weren't very good either. He had one of the worst completion percentages of any starting QB in the redzone and one of the lowest scoring percentages. That trend has carried over to this season, only now that problem is compounded. He now has the most turnovers in that area of the field out of any starting QB in the NFL. He's 37th in completion percentage, 1st in INTs and and 21st in touchdowns in this area of the field.

The main thing I'm trying to get at here, is we need to start thinking about finding a replacement for Geno Smith. Someone that can learn the game behind him. I don't have faith in Geno Smith to be much of anything for us beyond 2 years.

What is even worse is we're seeing a sharp decline in the number of objectively good games from season to season that we're seeing from Geno. If we're just looking at numbers they've been getting worse each and every season he's been a starter. Some of it is circumstances for sure, but some of it also has been on Geno himself.

I think he is what he is, fringe top 10 QB that can hover anywhere between 10 and 15. Could he pull a Jared Goff somewhere? Perhaps, but we also must remember, Goff has a very rare set of circumstances all coming together at the same time. He's been gifted the best line in football, some of the best sets of wide receivers in football AND most importantly the most innovative, premier talent at OC. Those things all rarely come together at the same time, it's unlikely to happen here or anywhere.

Geno Smith is fools gold. He's got all of the talent in the world but he hasn't been able to put it together. He's one of the most accurate QB's in the NFL, he's got a howitzer as an arm and he isn't afraid to stand tall in the pocket under pressure. He's also incredibly athletic, at one point he had the fastest clocked speed in the NFL this season. Geno has wheels.

On paper he should be elite, but he has a few issues. The first of which, he holds onto the ball for too long. He doesn't have a good sense of when people are closing in on him. His internal clock is a bit off. Some QB's such as Tom Brady seemed to have eyes in the back of their heads. Even with poor offensive lines, Brady never seemed to get sacked. He also had a great sense of how to set up his blockers and get rid of the ball. Geno is far more athletic than Brady ever has been or will ever be, despite this he plays like a 40 year old Vinnie Testaverde or Ken Stabler character in the pocket. He doesn't move in pocket, it's bizarre.

Geno is very bad when the field is condensed, his redzone numbers have been pretty bad, covered that already.

Geno Smith is oddly cocky, this is both a negative and positive attribute. He'll make throws he has no business trying to make but sometimes thread it in there. It was a bad decision but because of his accuracy and arm strength he pulls off a miracle. To be fair, this is one of Staffords biggest demerits and he's a pretty good QB. This has also lead him to having the most dropped interceptions from 2022 to 2023. I think some of that is catching up to him now.

Doesn't make good usage of his mobility. I've seen Geno Smith on occasion pull off some Russell Wilson like improvisation. He can change direction quickly, he's quick and has elite top end speed. I've seen him do the Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson thing. It's just he doesn't do it, he'd rather sit in the pocket like Ken Stabler. This ties back into the pocket presence thing, he seems to notice a half a click to late when people are baring down on him. His processing speed seems to be a bit slow in certain places.

I think if Smith ever leaves the Seahawks that he's just going to be one of those perennial free agent QB's. Good enough to stick around for a year or two, but never seen as the guy you want to bet your job on. Something akin to a more talented and better version of Fitzpatrick or Bridgewater character. I don't think he's anything special and I think we need to find a young gun to learn behind him ASAP.

 

[Rat]

He'll be 36 when he's a free agent. Doubt teams are lining up down the block.

 

[Spin Doctor]

He'll be 36 when he's a free agent. Doubt teams are lining up down the block.

Depends on what kind of season he has. The guy has elite talent, he put together 8 games of MVP level football back in 2023. The main thing I think teams will look for is whether or not he'll be able to string together solid play for a whole season. Geno tends to pull a disappearing act come midseason only to resurface towards the end.

Another thing is, I doubt he's ever going to get a long term contract, or at least one that doesn't have any sort of easy out after a season or two. As I said, I suspect he's going to be the next perennial free agent QB after the Seahawks. Think Fitzpatrick or Bridgewater. He'll have lucrative one or two year deal and bounce around.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Does he have elite talent though? Elite arm for sure. But the decision making and lack of field vision is far from elite, imo.
And his red zone abilities, far from Elite.

 

[pittpnthrs]

As i've said before, I feel bad for the guy because even if he set the league on fire, he's going to miss his chance of the big payday due to his age.

Having said that, he hasen't set the league on fire. He's a good solid QB that has inconsistencies that never seem to go away. I'd rather have him in there than Howell for sure as he gives us the best chance of winning, but I also don't want to extend him either.

I also still want to see what he produces in the post season if given the chance.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, I don't want them to switch to Howell. But I want a different QB next season. And I doubt I'm alone in that. IF he does something he's never done: Winning a couple of playoff games? A new deal would be justified. Just not nearly at the money that some think he's worth.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Does he have elite talent though? Elite arm for sure.

Absolutely. The Geno Smith is every bit as athletic is a lot of these top prospects coming out of the draft. He ran a 4.59 40 coming out of college and IMO his arm looks way stronger than it was for the Jets. His athletic traits are off of the charts in every category. Accuracy wise he's insane at every level, short, intermediate and long. He's had close to a 70 percent completion every season he's started for the Hawks and he hasn't exactly just been dinking and dunking doing it either.

He's had issues going back to college though of being inconsistent. He's got a lot of good things about his play, he just has issues bringing it all together.

The frustrating part about Geno is his measurables. The guy could be a Josh Allen like figure if he leveraged his speed and arm talent on the move.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. I guess I just see elite differently. I don't care how fast a guy runs or how strong his arm is. I care about how much he wins, how good he is in the red zone and does he have that Clutch gene? Not sure he does when it really counts. Hope to be wrong come playoffs.
Steve Young and Joe Montana didn't exactly have Cannon arms. But their decision making was off the charts. As were their abilities to win huge games.
Peyton Manning was a statue, and his arm was toast at the end, and he won a super bowl while throwing ducks. He got the ball where it needed to be. He was clutch.

Speed, Strong Arm, etc. can only get you so far. Plenty of QB's had elite "talent" but it doesn't mean they will be winners.
That's all I'm saying. He can be VERY good, but he can also be VERY bad. He's a maddening QB to watch, at least for me.

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah we can't keep saying the line sucks when its improved. We can't keep blaming the defense only to see it drastically improve. We can't ignore the amount of weapons he has which is at the very worst in the top 3rd of the league and I would argue is borderline top 5 at the skill position groups. We can't keep moving the needle in an effort to take away all blame from Geno. With the line playing better why haven't we seen an improvement from him that correlates with that improvement? If the defense was holding him back why when they got drastically better didn't we see another bump from Geno?

I know its more complicated then that but when its been the prevailing argument as to why he's near elite when some of us are skeptical of that then its a fair question for us to ask and for the team to ask. Now to be fair the Jets are a good defense. I think we will all get some answers to our questions.

And it's valid if you disagree with me or anyone else on Geno. If you think he's near elite and he's being held back its completely reasonable, I just see it differently. I hope he proves you right down the stretch and proves me wrong. I would be the first to cheer for it because it makes next year a lot easier to attack from a roster construction wise if he is near elite with an emerging defense.

 

[DarkVictory23]

But its highly debatable and I know you don't like any criticism of Geno but he deserves some for that game. I just rewatched the play and agree with Brock on it, he cant and shouldn't of taken a 20 yard sack and had time to do literally anything else. Geno also misses Fant and after watching that play its a makeable pass for a veteran QB and he didnt make it. Geno wasn't terrible against the Jets and did a good job with ball security but he was indecisive at times and made a couple potentially big mistakes that ended up not costing us. He also was fine on the last drive which is a part of the discussion too to be fair.

Nuance is looking at it in totality and not just saying Geno sucks or Geno is great right?

You just watched the play and you still think there was a chance Geno doesn't get sacked? Seriously? How? Watch the tape and show me at what moment Geno is supposed to

I didn't hear what Brock Huard said, but if HE think Geno doesn't get sacked on that play, then he's being a radio blowhard. Look, this isn't too hard. At the moment Geno has actually gotten his head up from grabbing the low snap and is able to actually start to decide whether he can throw the ball or not, he's at approx. the 7-and-a-half yard mark in between the hash marks. If you forward the video to exactly 1 second later, there are now two defenders in that exact spot. Geno would have had to decide in less than a quarter second to throw the ball away and even then he's probably still getting sacked.

And again, you are going back to this 'need' to not take a 20 yard sack (15 yard, but I digress) but... why? Again, if holding onto that 1-yard line spot was so important, why voluntarily snap the ball 5 yards deep to start the play?

Now, for the pass to Fant: Geno definitely blew that. Completely makeable pass and he overthrows him. Fully agree.

But what I want explained is this: What is the point you want to get at here? Are we assessing the failure of this one drive or trying to make a general point about Geno overall? Because if you want to highlight him blowing this one pass, are you going to discuss the fact that he's usually one of the most accurate passers in the league?

You want to talk about him holding onto the ball too long in this game, but would you also be then acknowledging that Geno actually has had an average/slightly faster than average time-to-throw since he's been our starter?

Yeah we can't keep saying the line sucks when its improved.

NFL Offensive Line Rankings Week 13

"At the bottom, Seattle has opened up a 2 point lead vs the Titans and Patriots in the race for the Golden Sieve Award."

Going into this week, we were the worst overall line of the year and rated as the worst performing offensive line of week 12. Maybe we improved in the Jets game (felt like it to me and some of the early numbers I saw suggest it), but I'm not sure that's enough to all of sudden create a 'our offensive line isn't a problem anymore' narrative.

 

[Ozzy]

I rewatched the play and agree with what Newley everyone else has said about it, he had plenty of time to not get sacked. I’m having a hard time understanding how you think he had no time.

Also who said our line isn’t a problem anymore? I said it’s played better the past couple of weeks which multiple others including Ray Robert’s and others have also noticed.

Yes Geno has had to get the ball out quicker than average because of the line. I’ve never said otherwise.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Ok, I'm just going to move on from the did Geno have time or not argument to just highlight this:

In this play that you state you've watched multiple times, our center snaps the ball poorly. Our offensive line leaves one defender completely unblocked. Despite not even accounting for one guy, our offensive line also lets 2 additional rushers through the LOS immediately on 4th and 1. You've mentioned none of these things even once.

So, tell me what I'm supposed to take away from the argument of someone who's biggest takeaway from our offensive line basically allowing a complete jailbreak on 4th and 1 is that our QB should have blown this already blown play in a slightly better way while also trying to state that our worst-in-the-league offensive line has been playing like a slightly better worst-in-the-league offensive line (even though not really) and should now basically not be considered when discussing how our QB is playing?

 

[OrangeGravy]

Ok, I'm just going to move on from the did Geno have time or not argument to just highlight this:

In this play that you state you've watched multiple times, our center snaps the ball poorly. Our offensive line leaves one defender completely unblocked. Despite not even accounting for one guy, our offensive line also lets 2 additional rushers through the LOS immediately on 4th and 1. You've mentioned none of these things even once.

So, tell me what I'm supposed to take away from the argument of someone who's biggest takeaway from our offensive line basically allowing a complete jailbreak on 4th and 1 is that our QB should have blown this already blown play in a slightly better way while also trying to state that our worst-in-the-league offensive line has been playing like a slightly better worst-in-the-league offensive line (even though not really) and should now basically not be considered when discussing how our QB is playing?

Don't waste your time or energy

 

[Ozzy]

Don't waste your time or energy

Come on man people can disagree without this type of post.

I just rewatched it again and it’s a play a veteran QB in that situation throws it away. You’re 12 years in the league you had time to realize this play is dead so let’s throw it away. I realize there was quick pressure, he still had time to get it away.

I’m not the only one who holds this view. Many smart football people including an ex NFL QB didn’t like that he took a 20 yard loss by running around. You and OrangeGravy can think it’s some anti Geno conspiracy but it’s not. It’s how most power seems they play, a bad play on Geno’s part. You’re free to disagree though

 

[Ozzy]

And to add I’m not saying it’s an easy play. A young QB most likely does take that sack. A veteran guy who many claim is a top 10 guy? Yeah I expect a little more there.

I think even Keasely a huge Geno supporter said it was a bad play on his part so don’t appreciate the OrangeGravy insinuation.

 

[themunn]

I just rewatched it again and it’s a play a veteran QB in that situation throws it away.

But why? There's nothing to be gained by throwing it away on 4th and 1 - it's a turnover on downs anyway, so either you try and escape the sack and make something happen, or you take the hit and reduce the risk of an interception that can be returned way way further.

The biggest mistake there was on the OC - after 7 attempts and failing to get in just take the 3 points and put the game within a FG to take the lead.

 

[Ozzy]

But why? There's nothing to be gained by throwing it away on 4th and 1 - it's a turnover on downs anyway, so either you try and escape the sack and make something happen, or you take the hit and reduce the risk of an interception that can be returned way way further.

The biggest mistake there was on the OC - after 7 attempts and failing to get in just take the 3 points and put the game within a FG to take the lead.

How is there not? You pin them on the 1 yard line where you've been getting a ton of pressure all game and anything can happen. Your defense is playing lights out and the of Rogers going 99 yards was unlikely. What did you gain by just running backwards to get tackled?

Was it the OC's fault Geno missed an open Fant for a touchdown? Why do people keep ignoring that while putting 100% of the blame on Grubb? That's my only point. Sure Grubb was bad down there but if the players execute(geno) its a touchdown and to leave that out of the equation seems odd to me.

 

[Ozzy]

@DarkVictory23 Baldwin saying the same thing.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yup

 

[Ozzy]

You just watched the play and you still think there was a chance Geno doesn't get sacked? Seriously? How? Watch the tape and show me at what moment Geno is supposed to

I didn't hear what Brock Huard said, but if HE think Geno doesn't get sacked on that play, then he's being a radio blowhard. Look, this isn't too hard. At the moment Geno has actually gotten his head up from grabbing the low snap and is able to actually start to decide whether he can throw the ball or not, he's at approx. the 7-and-a-half yard mark in between the hash marks. If you forward the video to exactly 1 second later, there are now two defenders in that exact spot. Geno would have had to decide in less than a quarter second to throw the ball away and even then he's probably still getting sacked.

And again, you are going back to this 'need' to not take a 20 yard sack (15 yard, but I digress) but... why? Again, if holding onto that 1-yard line spot was so important, why voluntarily snap the ball 5 yards deep to start the play?

Now, for the pass to Fant: Geno definitely blew that. Completely makeable pass and he overthrows him. Fully agree.

But what I want explained is this: What is the point you want to get at here? Are we assessing the failure of this one drive or trying to make a general point about Geno overall? Because if you want to highlight him blowing this one pass, are you going to discuss the fact that he's usually one of the most accurate passers in the league?

You want to talk about him holding onto the ball too long in this game, but would you also be then acknowledging that Geno actually has had an average/slightly faster than average time-to-throw since he's been our starter?


NFL Offensive Line Rankings Week 13

"At the bottom, Seattle has opened up a 2 point lead vs the Titans and Patriots in the race for the Golden Sieve Award."

Going into this week, we were the worst overall line of the year and rated as the worst performing offensive line of week 12. Maybe we improved in the Jets game (felt like it to me and some of the early numbers I saw suggest it), but I'm not sure that's enough to all of sudden create a 'our offensive line isn't a problem anymore' narrative.

I responded to this in another thread but Baldwin and his metrics have Seattle much higher. I can repost it if needed but it fits what most Seahawks fans have noticed when watching, the line has played better the past few weeks.