Fire Pete

[LTH]

A lot of these same arguments could have been made by Green Bay fans to keep MM. He got them to the playoffs. But they knew that a better coach would get better results with a QB that should have been driving better results.

I see a lot of #s being thrown about.

Pete is a #3 coach in the league. Russ is a top 5 QB. (Some player votes had him top 2 last year). Our roster is ranked in the top 5 regularly.

Have we been getting top 5 results in the playoffs? Or just been glorified wildcards?

The reason for the focus on the value of Pete building a roster is imperative. That is a Pete thing. Yes, 'all coaches develop lower drafted players' etc. But it is comically rare for a team to go into a season with a weakness (pass rush) and have it be top 5 by end of year. Same thing with losing starters to injury and actually improving (CB). All coaches develop talent etc. Pete does it better than almost anyone.

And he does it regularly.

He just does less with the better roster once he has it. Under another coach your roster quality is going to dip. Your holes are going to be magnified. And you will have less guys like Reed suddenly turning into top quality players seemingly out of nowhere.

Most elite QBs (and no Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, etc are NOT elite. Which is funny), are expensive. Ours is no exception. So you get thin rosters or giant weaknesses. Typically, non-Bradyish elite QBs in the new era regularly miss the playoffs 1-2 years out of 5. But they also tend to win a division playoff game 1-2 years out of 5. Sample size is small though. Mahomes, like Brady, seems to be bucking this trend.

Under Pete, with an elite QB, we are typically making the playoffs. Because Pete keeps our roster competitive. Which is incredibly difficult to consistently do with the QB taking such a % of cap. Because of this we usually make the playoffs.

We are usually outclassed in divisional playoff games, however.

The defining line of success/failure is subjective here.

If you feel making the playoffs consistently but also consistently being bounced, if not embarrassed, after the wildcard is success? Then Pete is the coach for you. If you feel that Wilson should occasionally be at least making a conference game in 5 years given the roster and his being an elite QB? Then Pete is underperforming.

Since the SB loss, Pete has coached with a high floor, low ceiling approach that works. But since the SB loss, he has not put together the playoff success you would expect from a top 3 or even top 5 coach with this kind of QB and this kind of roster.

Your whole argument is based around some roster rating and that PC is doing less with more. Please provide those roster ratings.

What Pete Carroll is doing in the NFL is ground breaking... The major reason for his success is because of the mentality that he creates on his team... of course nobody understands that but How many coaches can have the worst defense in the NFL and turn that around into one of the best defenses in the NFL? it's because this team has key leadership Bobby and KJ and KNJ to push Carrolls message... this team worked through MAJOR mountains of adversity they know who they are and what they are capable of and they never stopped believing in themselves even though the media and there own fan base trashed them to the point of calling them garbage...Most teams would have given up...

But this is not new it's happen's every year some years to a lesser degree... this is the process that Carroll goes through integrating new players into the system and working his units to have the mentality and belief to play championship ball... It takes some time but in the end Carroll has his team ready for the playoffs... But nobody EVER listens to what I say... people just have to go through there own process and in the end, although totally misunderstanding what's happening, we will enjoy a great season...

Next year it will be the same thing fans moaning and groaning because they don't understand he process and the media feeding the legion of gloom because they need ratings...





LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points. Calling your team garbage, super productive :?

 

[hawksincebirth]

A lot of these same arguments could have been made by Green Bay fans to keep MM. He got them to the playoffs. But they knew that a better coach would get better results with a QB that should have been driving better results.

I see a lot of #s being thrown about.

Pete is a #3 coach in the league. Russ is a top 5 QB. (Some player votes had him top 2 last year). Our roster is ranked in the top 5 regularly.

Have we been getting top 5 results in the playoffs? Or just been glorified wildcards?

The reason for the focus on the value of Pete building a roster is imperative. That is a Pete thing. Yes, 'all coaches develop lower drafted players' etc. But it is comically rare for a team to go into a season with a weakness (pass rush) and have it be top 5 by end of year. Same thing with losing starters to injury and actually improving (CB). All coaches develop talent etc. Pete does it better than almost anyone.

And he does it regularly.

He just does less with the better roster once he has it. Under another coach your roster quality is going to dip. Your holes are going to be magnified. And you will have less guys like Reed suddenly turning into top quality players seemingly out of nowhere.

Most elite QBs (and no Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, etc are NOT elite. Which is funny), are expensive. Ours is no exception. So you get thin rosters or giant weaknesses. Typically, non-Bradyish elite QBs in the new era regularly miss the playoffs 1-2 years out of 5. But they also tend to win a division playoff game 1-2 years out of 5. Sample size is small though. Mahomes, like Brady, seems to be bucking this trend.

Under Pete, with an elite QB, we are typically making the playoffs. Because Pete keeps our roster competitive. Which is incredibly difficult to consistently do with the QB taking such a % of cap. Because of this we usually make the playoffs.

We are usually outclassed in divisional playoff games, however.

The defining line of success/failure is subjective here.

If you feel making the playoffs consistently but also consistently being bounced, if not embarrassed, after the wildcard is success? Then Pete is the coach for you. If you feel that Wilson should occasionally be at least making a conference game in 5 years given the roster and his being an elite QB? Then Pete is underperforming.

Since the SB loss, Pete has coached with a high floor, low ceiling approach that works. But since the SB loss, he has not put together the playoff success you would expect from a top 3 or even top 5 coach with this kind of QB and this kind of roster.

This is an elite post that will be bashed.

 

[LTH]

A lot of these same arguments could have been made by Green Bay fans to keep MM. He got them to the playoffs. But they knew that a better coach would get better results with a QB that should have been driving better results.

I see a lot of #s being thrown about.

Pete is a #3 coach in the league. Russ is a top 5 QB. (Some player votes had him top 2 last year). Our roster is ranked in the top 5 regularly.

Have we been getting top 5 results in the playoffs? Or just been glorified wildcards?

The reason for the focus on the value of Pete building a roster is imperative. That is a Pete thing. Yes, 'all coaches develop lower drafted players' etc. But it is comically rare for a team to go into a season with a weakness (pass rush) and have it be top 5 by end of year. Same thing with losing starters to injury and actually improving (CB). All coaches develop talent etc. Pete does it better than almost anyone.

And he does it regularly.

He just does less with the better roster once he has it. Under another coach your roster quality is going to dip. Your holes are going to be magnified. And you will have less guys like Reed suddenly turning into top quality players seemingly out of nowhere.

Most elite QBs (and no Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, etc are NOT elite. Which is funny), are expensive. Ours is no exception. So you get thin rosters or giant weaknesses. Typically, non-Bradyish elite QBs in the new era regularly miss the playoffs 1-2 years out of 5. But they also tend to win a division playoff game 1-2 years out of 5. Sample size is small though. Mahomes, like Brady, seems to be bucking this trend.

Under Pete, with an elite QB, we are typically making the playoffs. Because Pete keeps our roster competitive. Which is incredibly difficult to consistently do with the QB taking such a % of cap. Because of this we usually make the playoffs.

We are usually outclassed in divisional playoff games, however.

The defining line of success/failure is subjective here.

If you feel making the playoffs consistently but also consistently being bounced, if not embarrassed, after the wildcard is success? Then Pete is the coach for you. If you feel that Wilson should occasionally be at least making a conference game in 5 years given the roster and his being an elite QB? Then Pete is underperforming.

Since the SB loss, Pete has coached with a high floor, low ceiling approach that works. But since the SB loss, he has not put together the playoff success you would expect from a top 3 or even top 5 coach with this kind of QB and this kind of roster.

This is an elite post that will be bashed.

Wrong! this post is complete garbage... a total misunderstanding of what is happening...


LTH

 

[hawksincebirth]

Can we just appreciate everyone’s opinion. We won the west let’s enjoy it like you positive patties say

No, there is no need or responsibility to appreciate ridiculous opinions. They are open to criticism and rejection. Not all opinions are equal in value, even in our politically correct world of everyone getting a trophy.

Wanting PC replaced is a ridiculous opinion, and should be rejected outright.

That's my opinion.

It’s really not as ridiculous as you think.
Wanting a serious contender is not too much to ask for with a top 3 qb. If we lose badly in the second round AGAIN you will keep hearing it

And if we don't lose in the second round, and the team goes further, it would be nice to stop hearing it. But sadly, such noise will probably continue for who-knows-what reason next.

I'm not as interested in the Super-Bowl goal on a weekly basis; I enjoy winning seasons because there's a whole season of fun football to watch. I certainly hope they make it to the final game of the post-season, and believe that out of the available coaches right now, PC gives this team the best chance. Firing him without a clearly better choice would be foolish and lacking foresight.

I’m sure like myself plenty of posters will give Pete and co his credit. Im excited for the playoffs and hope for the best. As for the second part of your post I disagree. Nobody is saying fire Pete without a viable replacement. New young and talented coaches come into the league every year. Let’s hope for the best this year

 

[hawksincebirth]

A lot of these same arguments could have been made by Green Bay fans to keep MM. He got them to the playoffs. But they knew that a better coach would get better results with a QB that should have been driving better results.

I see a lot of #s being thrown about.

Pete is a #3 coach in the league. Russ is a top 5 QB. (Some player votes had him top 2 last year). Our roster is ranked in the top 5 regularly.

Have we been getting top 5 results in the playoffs? Or just been glorified wildcards?

The reason for the focus on the value of Pete building a roster is imperative. That is a Pete thing. Yes, 'all coaches develop lower drafted players' etc. But it is comically rare for a team to go into a season with a weakness (pass rush) and have it be top 5 by end of year. Same thing with losing starters to injury and actually improving (CB). All coaches develop talent etc. Pete does it better than almost anyone.

And he does it regularly.

He just does less with the better roster once he has it. Under another coach your roster quality is going to dip. Your holes are going to be magnified. And you will have less guys like Reed suddenly turning into top quality players seemingly out of nowhere.

Most elite QBs (and no Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, etc are NOT elite. Which is funny), are expensive. Ours is no exception. So you get thin rosters or giant weaknesses. Typically, non-Bradyish elite QBs in the new era regularly miss the playoffs 1-2 years out of 5. But they also tend to win a division playoff game 1-2 years out of 5. Sample size is small though. Mahomes, like Brady, seems to be bucking this trend.

Under Pete, with an elite QB, we are typically making the playoffs. Because Pete keeps our roster competitive. Which is incredibly difficult to consistently do with the QB taking such a % of cap. Because of this we usually make the playoffs.

We are usually outclassed in divisional playoff games, however.

The defining line of success/failure is subjective here.

If you feel making the playoffs consistently but also consistently being bounced, if not embarrassed, after the wildcard is success? Then Pete is the coach for you. If you feel that Wilson should occasionally be at least making a conference game in 5 years given the roster and his being an elite QB? Then Pete is underperforming.

Since the SB loss, Pete has coached with a high floor, low ceiling approach that works. But since the SB loss, he has not put together the playoff success you would expect from a top 3 or even top 5 coach with this kind of QB and this kind of roster.

This is an elite post that will be bashed.

Wrong! this post is complete garbage... a total misunderstanding of what is happening...


LTH

Feel free to articulate why you think the post is garbage. Or you can just say you disagree with it and carry on without the extras

 

[LTH]

A lot of these same arguments could have been made by Green Bay fans to keep MM. He got them to the playoffs. But they knew that a better coach would get better results with a QB that should have been driving better results.

I see a lot of #s being thrown about.

Pete is a #3 coach in the league. Russ is a top 5 QB. (Some player votes had him top 2 last year). Our roster is ranked in the top 5 regularly.

Have we been getting top 5 results in the playoffs? Or just been glorified wildcards?

The reason for the focus on the value of Pete building a roster is imperative. That is a Pete thing. Yes, 'all coaches develop lower drafted players' etc. But it is comically rare for a team to go into a season with a weakness (pass rush) and have it be top 5 by end of year. Same thing with losing starters to injury and actually improving (CB). All coaches develop talent etc. Pete does it better than almost anyone.

And he does it regularly.

He just does less with the better roster once he has it. Under another coach your roster quality is going to dip. Your holes are going to be magnified. And you will have less guys like Reed suddenly turning into top quality players seemingly out of nowhere.

Most elite QBs (and no Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, etc are NOT elite. Which is funny), are expensive. Ours is no exception. So you get thin rosters or giant weaknesses. Typically, non-Bradyish elite QBs in the new era regularly miss the playoffs 1-2 years out of 5. But they also tend to win a division playoff game 1-2 years out of 5. Sample size is small though. Mahomes, like Brady, seems to be bucking this trend.

Under Pete, with an elite QB, we are typically making the playoffs. Because Pete keeps our roster competitive. Which is incredibly difficult to consistently do with the QB taking such a % of cap. Because of this we usually make the playoffs.

We are usually outclassed in divisional playoff games, however.

The defining line of success/failure is subjective here.

If you feel making the playoffs consistently but also consistently being bounced, if not embarrassed, after the wildcard is success? Then Pete is the coach for you. If you feel that Wilson should occasionally be at least making a conference game in 5 years given the roster and his being an elite QB? Then Pete is underperforming.

Since the SB loss, Pete has coached with a high floor, low ceiling approach that works. But since the SB loss, he has not put together the playoff success you would expect from a top 3 or even top 5 coach with this kind of QB and this kind of roster.

This is an elite post that will be bashed.

Wrong! this post is complete garbage... a total misunderstanding of what is happening...


LTH

Feel free to articulate why you think the post is garbage. Or you can just say you disagree with it and carry on without the extras

I've just said it SO many times its not worth the calluses on my typing fingers...I'm worn out trying to refute BS... I probably should not have made the post.. Im just sick of reading this stuff...time to start ignoring posts...

LTH

 

[Hockey Guy]

A lot of these same arguments could have been made by Green Bay fans to keep MM. He got them to the playoffs. But they knew that a better coach would get better results with a QB that should have been driving better results.

I see a lot of #s being thrown about.

Pete is a #3 coach in the league. Russ is a top 5 QB. (Some player votes had him top 2 last year). Our roster is ranked in the top 5 regularly.

Have we been getting top 5 results in the playoffs? Or just been glorified wildcards?

The reason for the focus on the value of Pete building a roster is imperative. That is a Pete thing. Yes, 'all coaches develop lower drafted players' etc. But it is comically rare for a team to go into a season with a weakness (pass rush) and have it be top 5 by end of year. Same thing with losing starters to injury and actually improving (CB). All coaches develop talent etc. Pete does it better than almost anyone.

And he does it regularly.

He just does less with the better roster once he has it. Under another coach your roster quality is going to dip. Your holes are going to be magnified. And you will have less guys like Reed suddenly turning into top quality players seemingly out of nowhere.

Most elite QBs (and no Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, etc are NOT elite. Which is funny), are expensive. Ours is no exception. So you get thin rosters or giant weaknesses. Typically, non-Bradyish elite QBs in the new era regularly miss the playoffs 1-2 years out of 5. But they also tend to win a division playoff game 1-2 years out of 5. Sample size is small though. Mahomes, like Brady, seems to be bucking this trend.

Under Pete, with an elite QB, we are typically making the playoffs. Because Pete keeps our roster competitive. Which is incredibly difficult to consistently do with the QB taking such a % of cap. Because of this we usually make the playoffs.

We are usually outclassed in divisional playoff games, however.

The defining line of success/failure is subjective here.

If you feel making the playoffs consistently but also consistently being bounced, if not embarrassed, after the wildcard is success? Then Pete is the coach for you. If you feel that Wilson should occasionally be at least making a conference game in 5 years given the roster and his being an elite QB? Then Pete is underperforming.

Since the SB loss, Pete has coached with a high floor, low ceiling approach that works. But since the SB loss, he has not put together the playoff success you would expect from a top 3 or even top 5 coach with this kind of QB and this kind of roster.

This is an elite post that will be bashed.

Wrong! this post is complete garbage... a total misunderstanding of what is happening...


LTH

Feel free to articulate why you think the post is garbage. Or you can just say you disagree with it and carry on without the extras

Mike McCarthy was fired after 2 losing seasons, where they were projected to win their division, the 2nd of which it could be argued that the team kinda gave up & quit on him.

When that happens here, players quitting on the coaching staff, there will be changes on the coaching staff.

 

[LTH]

This is an elite post that will be bashed.

Wrong! this post is complete garbage... a total misunderstanding of what is happening...


LTH

Feel free to articulate why you think the post is garbage. Or you can just say you disagree with it and carry on without the extras

Mike McCarthy was fired after 2 losing seasons, where they were projected to win their division, the 2nd of which it could be argued that the team kinda gave up & quit on him.

When that happens here, players quitting on the coaching staff, there will be changes on the coaching staff.

I totally agree with that...The expectation that the Seahawks should be in the SB every year and because they are not Pete Carroll should be fired is totally unrealistic and just ridiculous... going back to your point about players giving up, the exact opposite is happening in Carrolls case...The fact that Carroll turned around this D from the worst D in the NFL to one of the best D's in the NFL is because the players did not give up... (Excellent point by Hockey Guy)

Right now the Seahawk organization is the best in football and that was created by Pete Carroll but the misunderstanding about Carroll is that people think great football is only won on the football field... that's not the case there are SOOOO many other factors that play into a winning football team just look at who is employed by the Seahawks... and people just don't see that side of things... what Carroll has done in seattle is create a dynasty that is alive and well... it would not surprise me to see two SB victory's by the time Carroll leaves...


LTH

 

[Ad Hawk]

No, there is no need or responsibility to appreciate ridiculous opinions. They are open to criticism and rejection. Not all opinions are equal in value, even in our politically correct world of everyone getting a trophy.

Wanting PC replaced is a ridiculous opinion, and should be rejected outright.

That's my opinion.

It’s really not as ridiculous as you think.
Wanting a serious contender is not too much to ask for with a top 3 qb. If we lose badly in the second round AGAIN you will keep hearing it

And if we don't lose in the second round, and the team goes further, it would be nice to stop hearing it. But sadly, such noise will probably continue for who-knows-what reason next.

I'm not as interested in the Super-Bowl goal on a weekly basis; I enjoy winning seasons because there's a whole season of fun football to watch. I certainly hope they make it to the final game of the post-season, and believe that out of the available coaches right now, PC gives this team the best chance. Firing him without a clearly better choice would be foolish and lacking foresight.

I’m sure like myself plenty of posters will give Pete and co his credit. Im excited for the playoffs and hope for the best. As for the second part of your post I disagree. Nobody is saying fire Pete without a viable replacement. New young and talented coaches come into the league every year. Let’s hope for the best this year

"Young" and "Talented" is rare. If you want to point to McVay as a model, he still hasn't won the trophy. We just beat their top-ranked defense and out-muscled their once-potent offense.

How about Patricia? Bill B bloodline, after all. But no, he's not the right choice either, is he?

Come up with something better than PC, someone who isn't a huge gamble, before crying for replacement. Otherwise it absolutely is foolish talk and evidence that you cannot back up your hope with anything substantial. It's why wise and successful Seahawk business owners have NOT done what you think they should do.

 

[LTH]

It’s really not as ridiculous as you think.
Wanting a serious contender is not too much to ask for with a top 3 qb. If we lose badly in the second round AGAIN you will keep hearing it

And if we don't lose in the second round, and the team goes further, it would be nice to stop hearing it. But sadly, such noise will probably continue for who-knows-what reason next.

I'm not as interested in the Super-Bowl goal on a weekly basis; I enjoy winning seasons because there's a whole season of fun football to watch. I certainly hope they make it to the final game of the post-season, and believe that out of the available coaches right now, PC gives this team the best chance. Firing him without a clearly better choice would be foolish and lacking foresight.

I’m sure like myself plenty of posters will give Pete and co his credit. Im excited for the playoffs and hope for the best. As for the second part of your post I disagree. Nobody is saying fire Pete without a viable replacement. New young and talented coaches come into the league every year. Let’s hope for the best this year

"Young" and "Talented" is rare. If you want to point to McVay as a model, he still hasn't won the trophy. We just beat their top-ranked defense and out-muscled their once-potent offense.

How about Patricia? Bill B bloodline, after all. But no, he's not the right choice either, is he?

Come up with something better than PC, someone who isn't a huge gamble, before crying for replacement. Otherwise it absolutely is foolish talk and evidence that you cannot back up your hope with anything substantial. It's why wise and successful Seahawk business owners have NOT done what you think they should do.

From a business perspective it would be stupid to get rid of Pete as their revenue was up 8% last year...

LTH

 

[Hawkpower]

Nunya,

As you know, ratings of rosters are subjective.

But I think you have seen them. Right now, we are #6 in the power rankings. Earlier in the year, we were even higher.

Power rankings are a function of both record and perceived roster strength.

We can probably find multiple roster rankings with us in ranges from 5-7 right now.

(Depends if you think TB has a better roster than us. I don't. Certainly you could argue the Titans or Steelers might have a better roster, but most people wouldn't.)

You can also juxtapose the roster rankings with the number of Pro Bowlers on our team. We have a fair amount, while not really displaying massive depth issues that would counter it.

But again, however you rank the roster - it is going to be subjective by definition because there is no way to objectively rank it adequately.

At the same time, playoff success is technically a subjective measurement. Because it depends on not just outcomes, but matchups and a number of tradeoffs. Generally you are going either going to be successful wide (consistency) or deep (how far you go in the playoffs when you make it). Pete is very consistent in making the playoffs. But so was Marty Schottenheimer. In truth, Pete would probably be the new Marty Schottenheimer but for the LOB (and the Wilson+Lynch combo).

So is Pete a success in the playoffs? He is certainly a success at making them. In the past few years, he hasn't put up great results once he got there though.

If our roster is 5-7th in rankings, why are we saying nfc championship or failure?

Wouldn’t that be reserved for the top 4?

 

[Ad Hawk]

Agreed, Hawkpower. What we have here are unrealistic expectations, thus frequent disappointment.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Nunya,

As you know, ratings of rosters are subjective.

But I think you have seen them. Right now, we are #6 in the power rankings. Earlier in the year, we were even higher.

Power rankings are a function of both record and perceived roster strength.

We can probably find multiple roster rankings with us in ranges from 5-7 right now.

(Depends if you think TB has a better roster than us. I don't. Certainly you could argue the Titans or Steelers might have a better roster, but most people wouldn't.)

You can also juxtapose the roster rankings with the number of Pro Bowlers on our team. We have a fair amount, while not really displaying massive depth issues that would counter it.

But again, however you rank the roster - it is going to be subjective by definition because there is no way to objectively rank it adequately.

At the same time, playoff success is technically a subjective measurement. Because it depends on not just outcomes, but matchups and a number of tradeoffs. Generally you are going either going to be successful wide (consistency) or deep (how far you go in the playoffs when you make it). Pete is very consistent in making the playoffs. But so was Marty Schottenheimer. In truth, Pete would probably be the new Marty Schottenheimer but for the LOB (and the Wilson+Lynch combo).

So is Pete a success in the playoffs? He is certainly a success at making them. In the past few years, he hasn't put up great results once he got there though.

So you expect a top 5-7 ranked roster to get to finish in the top 4 (Conference Championship) of the league every year? If you expect us at 5-7 to get to the final 4, what happens to the other 6 teams that are supposed to get there also according to your expectations? Are those teams different? 3 of them can't make it. Are they underperforming? How is making it the second round most years in the playoffs not performing to the expected level of a top 5-7 roster? Rankings are bullshit as you probably know, but I could see your argument if we had a top 2-3 roster every year, but even you don't think our roster is there.

 

[OrangeGravy]

No, there is no need or responsibility to appreciate ridiculous opinions. They are open to criticism and rejection. Not all opinions are equal in value, even in our politically correct world of everyone getting a trophy.

Wanting PC replaced is a ridiculous opinion, and should be rejected outright.

That's my opinion.

It’s really not as ridiculous as you think.
Wanting a serious contender is not too much to ask for with a top 3 qb. If we lose badly in the second round AGAIN you will keep hearing it

And if we don't lose in the second round, and the team goes further, it would be nice to stop hearing it. But sadly, such noise will probably continue for who-knows-what reason next.

I'm not as interested in the Super-Bowl goal on a weekly basis; I enjoy winning seasons because there's a whole season of fun football to watch. I certainly hope they make it to the final game of the post-season, and believe that out of the available coaches right now, PC gives this team the best chance. Firing him without a clearly better choice would be foolish and lacking foresight.

I’m sure like myself plenty of posters will give Pete and co his credit. Im excited for the playoffs and hope for the best. As for the second part of your post I disagree. Nobody is saying fire Pete without a viable replacement. New young and talented coaches come into the league every year. Let’s hope for the best this year

What have any of those new and talented coaches done since coming into the league that Seattle hasn't done and continues to do?

 

[olyfan63]

-snip-
On the other points you questioned?

Let's be clear. Yes all teams grow/build/improve. But Pete is an expert program builder. There is a difference.

He is adept at building and developing key contributors IN season. That means many things but primarily it means that the roster on Day 1 will significantly improve by end of season. It also means that lower level draft picks have a much higher % chance of being significant contributors than most teams usually realize at those levels. Both are exceptional, both are benefits that Pete brings, and not sure why or how you would pretend this is normal when it isn't.

Sure it happens to all teams. But not with the degree and consistency Pete delivers. It is almost assured depth multiplier.

With Pete, you are going to be better at the end of the year in key areas that you were not great at in the earlier games. He also is going to find some unheralded player and turn him into an exceptional contributor yearly.

-snip-

Some terrific points here! So many people fail to recognize Pete's program-building ability.

I do think we have a special group this year, and have a chance for a deep playoff run. We've hit on some draft choices, (Brooks, Lewis, Robinson, Swain, Dallas, and probably Cody Parkinson too, and we hope D. Taylor, in time) and we've had some terrific key acquisitions (Adams, Dunlap, Hyde, Mayowa, Shell, Olsen, DJ Reed, others), had some players take a big step forward (DK, Pocic, Collier), had a lot of cheap players outperform their contracts (Poona, Dissly, DJReed the rooks), others play up to their contracts (Hollister, Russell, KJ, Bobby, JReed, DMoore, Quill Griffin, QDiggs, and nearly everyone else) and Jamal Adams arguably outperforming his contract.

We have players getting healthy for the playoffs (Penny), rooks continuing to improve as the season goes along (Brooks!!, Swain, Lewis, Robinson, and more) and our overall team health is at least average. Worst injury loss was probably losing Bruce Irvin to an ACL, probably followed by that CB we traded for from WFT who is now on IR. Yeah Dunbar. Hard to recall his name he's done so little for us.

With the vast improvement from the defense the last few weeks, and overall team chemistry and upward trajectory, Pete has a legit shot to take this team to the Super Bowl again. I'd say best overall roster we've had at this point since the 2014 season. This roster has the potential to mask Pete's massive playoff coaching deficiencies like the team did in 2013 and 2014.

Now it's pretty much up to Pete and coordinators KNJ and Schotty, to come up with good game plans for our opponents, make good adjustments in-game, and up to Russell to be on his game. If all that happens, we have a legit shot to beat anyone and everyone in the playoffs.

I'm leaning towards delaying Pete's firing for at least 2 more weeks to see if the team will rally around him, play hard for him, and at least show some promise for next season.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I totally agree with that...The expectation that the Seahawks should be in the SB every year and because they are not Pete Carroll should be fired is totally unrealistic and just ridiculous... going back to your point about players giving up, the exact opposite is happening in Carrolls case...The fact that Carroll turned around this D from the worst D in the NFL to one of the best D's in the NFL is because the players did not give up... (Excellent point by Hockey Guy)

Right now the Seahawk organization is the best in football and that was created by Pete Carroll but the misunderstanding about Carroll is that people think great football is only won on the football field... that's not the case there are SOOOO many other factors that play into a winning football team just look at who is employed by the Seahawks... and people just don't see that side of things... what Carroll has done in seattle is create a dynasty that is alive and well... it would not surprise me to see two SB victory's by the time Carroll leaves...


LTH

Players giving up is the exact opposite in Carrolls case? Seems like a lot of HOF caliber players gave up on Pete from the Super Bowl teams.

Create a dynasty in Seattle? He also squandered one. He called or allowed a play in the Super Bowl that was so legendarily bad that the team fell apart. He then refused to practice what he preached and never held anybody accountable for it. He went as far as to allow his OC to throw players under the bus. Its no wonder players quit buying into the Rah Rah garbage Pete was promoting because its all a farce.

People are so far ahead of themselves right now because of the division title that they cant see that this is just another typical season for the Hawks. That first or second round playoff exit is right around the corner. Two more SB victories in the Carroll era? Lol. I'd settle for more than two playoff wins in a season before counting those chickens.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Damn man, breathe in. You can't honestly be this doom and gloom. You can't even enjoy a division title? Not even a little bit? And why do you insist on raining on someone else's parade? God forbid someone else enjoys winning. Just because YOU expect the worst, doesn't mean you have to blast those who actually are enjoying this.
Doesn't make you a bigger fan or them a bigger fan, but it also doesn't make them clueless or stupid.
But, I seem to remember a comment that the Hawks never win clinching games. Which they just did, yet again.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Damn man, breathe in. You can't honestly be this doom and gloom. You can't even enjoy a division title? Not even a little bit? And why do you insist on raining on someone else's parade? God forbid someone else enjoys winning. Just because YOU expect the worst, doesn't mean you have to blast those who actually are enjoying this.
Doesn't make you a bigger fan or them a bigger fan, but it also doesn't make them clueless or stupid.
But, I seem to remember a comment that the Hawks never win clinching games. Which they just did, yet again.

The division title is nice. Makes for a great Tshirt. Unfortunately it doesnt mean much because the seeding isnt changing. I'm not blasting anybody. I just feel what was said was wrong. Facts pretty much back me up. I just refuse to be fooled by this team anymore. Seems like a typical Seahawk season to me,,,,,get the chipper fans hopes up, bomb in the playoffs, rinse and re-pete. The Hawks go into 1st or 2nd round of playoffs, get rocked in the first half due to horrific gameday coaching, they make a comeback in the 2nd half because the other team lets up, fans shout how close the Hawks were and are happy and content they even made the playoffs because they sucked 30 years ago and are convinced they will get over the hump next season. Everything is fine and dandy. I expect the worst and if anything more happens, its a shock. Its a win, win situation for all.

 

[Hockey Guy]

Imagine that.

pittpnthrs, 1 of the posters who is on record as saying he wants PC fired & doesn't even care if the move works out he's just ready for a change & wants to see if he's right, has shown up to regale us with his wisdom in a mock "Fire Pete" thread.