Fire Pete

[Spin Doctor]

It's a strange, and maybe even completely misplaced idea, to think that if you pay your QB more, you must therefore make him (or expect him to) throw more. You don't pay your QB for yards thrown, but for efficiency and accuracy within a system that produces wins. If RW is part of a winning system due to these qualities, he's worth whatever the team can pay.

You don't get 17/23 and 3 TDs from a game manager, unless of course that term is far more complimentary than most people assume. It takes a very special, capable QB to play in this system, and not just anyone could do so; that's a pipe-dream. Pete and John may need to pay a lot to have a quality enough QB for this Offense, and Russ is the perfect one for it.

If what some fans are after is a QB's stat-line (yards, completions, TDs), then I'm more thrilled than ever that those fans are limited to this site and not the front office of the Seahawks.

Yes you do, the likes of Sam Bradford, and Alex Smith used to put up those numbers all of the time. You DO NOT pay a Quarterback 30 million dollars to just manage the game. Can Russ do more? Yeah, he can, will Pete let him is the question. The concern that many have is to what degree will this affect our ability to field a competitive team. That 30 million dollar salary means we sacrifice depth, it means we will not be able to retain some star players. It means an overall weaker team. The 2013 team would not have happened without players like Russ being paid pennies on the dollar. This style of offense with a team that has the talent level of the Packers would not be a pretty sight.

As of right now the Seahawks are 30th in salary cap room. Who do you sacrifice in order to pay Russ that salary? Griffin, Clark, and Reed will also need to be resigned around the same time that Wilson's contract comes up for renewal. This is why you don't pay a QB 30 million dollars just to manage a game that is asinine. You need your QB to take over the game at that price point. I'm not just talking about throwing it a lot either, I'm talking about being a field general.

 

[toffee]

50% of folks on .net firmly believe that Pete is a must fire, so just Fire Pete.

 

[rcaido]

If Pete and John believe Wilson is a game manager and gave him an Arron Rodgers contract (-$1,000 per year), then they both need to be strung up by the balls and tortured.

Do you even know what a "game manager" is? :roll:

It is a derogatory name given to a below average QB that is only good enough to not screw things up. :177692: :141847_bnono: :roll:

You are either a franchise QB or a game manager, you cannot be both!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager

Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.

What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.

I guess game mangers dont win games either?

Interesting stat here...

Wilson has 19 4th quarter comebacks and 24gwd in his young career

Already more then the god Erin Rodgers

13 4th comeback and 20 gwd

Aslo Pete & Wilson combo has the 2nd best record since they been with each other. Yeah lets get rid of these non producers.

I think you're misconstruing people's concerns here. People are not worried about Wilson as much as they are worried about Pete and his offensive philosophy. If we run the same sorts of offenses we've seen under Pete Carroll we could have a 30 million dollar QB that throws the ball 19 times a game. The other extreme is fielding an offense that sputters for three or more quarters due to poor offensive schemes.

Under Pete is does become a relevant question: "is Wilson worth 30 million or more per year". That 30 million will seriously gimp our team unless Pete Carroll changes up his offensive philosophy and gives Russ more autonomy. Our Quarterback is the most restricted QB in the NFL. We don't give him very much in the way of options for changing plays, and route options. Very simplistic style that has cost us many games, and will cost us even more if Russ is paid 30 million per year. We realistically could be seeing a lot more units like the frustrating 2017 team that can't seem to get out of their own way with Pete's style paired with a limited salary cap.

19 times a game, way to exaggerate that number. Wilson is throwing the ball an average 29 times throughout his career. While being one of the most efficient doing so. He wins games in the 4th quarter. There is no question paying him 30 million. You dont need a #1 receiver, you dont need a top running back, you dont even need an expensive o-line. If you dont have Wilson, you're going to end up paying more on other player positions because there really isn't any other proven qbs that has his abilities. If you want to try to get that royal flush go for it.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.

What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.

I guess game mangers dont win games either?

Interesting stat here...

Wilson has 19 4th quarter comebacks and 24gwd in his young career

Already more then the god Erin Rodgers

13 4th comeback and 20 gwd

Aslo Pete & Wilson combo has the 2nd best record since they been with each other. Yeah lets get rid of these non producers.

I think you're misconstruing people's concerns here. People are not worried about Wilson as much as they are worried about Pete and his offensive philosophy. If we run the same sorts of offenses we've seen under Pete Carroll we could have a 30 million dollar QB that throws the ball 19 times a game. The other extreme is fielding an offense that sputters for three or more quarters due to poor offensive schemes.

Under Pete is does become a relevant question: "is Wilson worth 30 million or more per year". That 30 million will seriously gimp our team unless Pete Carroll changes up his offensive philosophy and gives Russ more autonomy. Our Quarterback is the most restricted QB in the NFL. We don't give him very much in the way of options for changing plays, and route options. Very simplistic style that has cost us many games, and will cost us even more if Russ is paid 30 million per year. We realistically could be seeing a lot more units like the frustrating 2017 team that can't seem to get out of their own way with Pete's style paired with a limited salary cap.

19 times a game, way to exaggerate that number. Wilson is throwing the ball an average 29 times throughout his career. While being one of the most efficient doing so. He wins games in the 4th quarter. There is no question paying him 30 million. You dont need a #1 receiver, you dont need a top running back, you dont even need an expensive o-line. If you dont have Wilson, you're going to end up paying more on other player positions because there really isn't any other proven qbs that has his abilities. If you want to try to get that royal flush go for it.

All of this. People are so screwed up with Madden and Fantasy leagues, and PFF crap.Wilson is a proven winner. The number are mostly irrelevant. People get so enamored with numbers. The only tell part of the story. IMHO not even the biggest part.

Yes, pay the man 30 million a year. We will go nowhere without him. People act like great quarterbacks are easy to come by. Look how long it took us to get straight after Lynch left (supposedly you can get a decent RB on the street corner). Where will our next QB come from. Even mid tier QBs are making lots of money.

BTW the salary cap will goes up and up every year along with the salaries. You hear the same drumbeat every time a player gets a raise. We will not be able to pay anyone if we give him that money. I see plenty of teams that survive through this impending doom. I would like to see an example of when a team imploded after paying a QB a fat contract. At least a QB in the top tier.

 

[toffee]

It's a strange, and maybe even completely misplaced idea, to think that if you pay your QB more, you must therefore make him (or expect him to) throw more. You don't pay your QB for yards thrown, but for efficiency and accuracy within a system that produces wins. If RW is part of a winning system due to these qualities, he's worth whatever the team can pay.

You don't get 17/23 and 3 TDs from a game manager, unless of course that term is far more complimentary than most people assume. It takes a very special, capable QB to play in this system, and not just anyone could do so; that's a pipe-dream. Pete and John may need to pay a lot to have a quality enough QB for this Offense, and Russ is the perfect one for it.

If what some fans are after is a QB's stat-line (yards, completions, TDs), then I'm more thrilled than ever that those fans are limited to this site and not the front office of the Seahawks.

Yes you do, the likes of Sam Bradford, and Alex Smith used to put up those numbers all of the time. You DO NOT pay a Quarterback 30 million dollars to just manage the game. Can Russ do more? Yeah, he can, will Pete let him is the question. The concern that many have is to what degree will this affect our ability to field a competitive team. That 30 million dollar salary means we sacrifice depth, it means we will not be able to retain some star players. It means an overall weaker team. The 2013 team would not have happened without players like Russ being paid pennies on the dollar. This style of offense with a team that has the talent level of the Packers would not be a pretty sight.

As of right now the Seahawks are 30th in salary cap room. Who do you sacrifice in order to pay Russ that salary? Griffin, Clark, and Reed will also need to be resigned around the same time that Wilson's contract comes up for renewal. This is why you don't pay a QB 30 million dollars just to manage a game that is asinine. You need your QB to take over the game at that price point. I'm not just talking about throwing it a lot either, I'm talking about being a field general.

Again, who do you want to replace Pete.

 

[scutterhawk]

Considering today's event, I don't think it is relevant anymore.

Exactly. Everything about this topic changes after today's news. Firing Pete would be flat out stupid to talk about now (for me) because my main trust was in Paul to find an answer to our future success. Now....sadly I think the worst case scenario has just occurred.

my fear now is the new owner/power would want their own guy, so Pete will be replaced by some less qualified "my guy".

That would very likely be AGAINST what Paul Allen had going.....IF Paul Allen was going to fire Pete, he likely would have sent him packing with Cable - Bevell &Co.
Thank God that we had Paul Allen calling the shots behind the scenes and NOT some wishey-washy snivelers.
PA had some uncanny wisdom, hopefully new Ownership will have enough intelligence to ride the Paul Allen wave of success, and take a more slow & methodical approach BEFORE making ANY changes.

 

[KiwiHawk]

50% of folks on .net firmly believe that Pete is a must fire, so just Fire Pete.

I think a rather larger number are convinced that no matter how fast you shovel the mound of diarrhea, you're eventually going to be covered in it, so the best thing you can do is simply to avoid "discussions" like this one.

50% of the remainder think he should be fired.

 

[chris98251]

Ha, I know people don't like that term, "game manager"........and I certainly don't mean it as a derogatory term, I love Russell.

What I mean by it is a QB that only throws the ball 20-30 times a game, and you don't rely on to carry the team for four quarters game in and game out. You rely on him to make smart decisions, protect the ball and make 3-4 explosive plays per game playing off your dominant run game.

So yeah, is that worth 33M+ a year? I have no idea, that scares the hell out of me. But you know what else scares the hell out of me? This team without Russell and going back to a revolving door of mediocre QB's for the next 20 years.

I guess game mangers dont win games either?

Interesting stat here...

Wilson has 19 4th quarter comebacks and 24gwd in his young career

Already more then the god Erin Rodgers

13 4th comeback and 20 gwd

Aslo Pete & Wilson combo has the 2nd best record since they been with each other. Yeah lets get rid of these non producers.

I think you're misconstruing people's concerns here. People are not worried about Wilson as much as they are worried about Pete and his offensive philosophy. If we run the same sorts of offenses we've seen under Pete Carroll we could have a 30 million dollar QB that throws the ball 19 times a game. The other extreme is fielding an offense that sputters for three or more quarters due to poor offensive schemes.

Under Pete is does become a relevant question: "is Wilson worth 30 million or more per year". That 30 million will seriously gimp our team unless Pete Carroll changes up his offensive philosophy and gives Russ more autonomy. Our Quarterback is the most restricted QB in the NFL. We don't give him very much in the way of options for changing plays, and route options. Very simplistic style that has cost us many games, and will cost us even more if Russ is paid 30 million per year. We realistically could be seeing a lot more units like the frustrating 2017 team that can't seem to get out of their own way with Pete's style paired with a limited salary cap.

we are getting a new owner, so you wish of a new HC is so happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post a link if your stating fact or stop it, Jody Allen would bge a new owner do you theink she is going to go out and Hirer Fabio becasue she may like long hair as a Coach ?

 

[AgentDib]

Ad Hawk makes a really good point about an efficient QB being worth the money in Pete's system. Protecting the ball while also keeping enough of a big play threat to allow your team to pound the rock is fundamental to the offense working. You don't have to throw the ball a lot as long as the defense respects that you will throw the ball if they give you an opportunity.

The most important part to me is that we have the money to spend on a QB given Pete's ridiculous ability to evaluate and coach secondary talent. I know most people realize this but just look at the following group that we are getting surprisingly strong production from this year.

- S Bradley McDougald 3.3m, FA
- S Tedric Thompson 0.72m, 4th
- S Akeem King 0.56m, FA
- S Delano Hill 0.77m, 3rd
- CB Shaq Griffin 0.78m, 3rd
- CB Tre Flowers 0.55m, 6th
- CB Justin Coleman 2.9m, FA
- CB Neiko Thorpe 2.2m, FA

The total for this whole group is ~11.8m and ~400 points on the draft value chart (equivalent of one #50 overall pick).

We're going to have lots of cap space next year and will probably bring in another large group of cheap rookies. It's definitely not a disaster if Pete wants to spend $$$ on a QB who fits his system perfectly and willingly does everything Pete asks of him. A great working relationship goes a very long way at higher levels and many underestimate how completely Pete and Russ have had each other's backs since day 1.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Ad Hawk makes a really good point about an efficient QB being worth the money in Pete's system. Protecting the ball while also keeping enough of a big play threat to allow your team to pound the rock is fundamental to the offense working. You don't have to throw the ball a lot as long as the defense respects that you will throw the ball if they give you an opportunity.

The most important part to me is that we have the money to spend on a QB given Pete's ridiculous ability to evaluate and coach secondary talent. I know most people realize this but just look at the following group that we are getting surprisingly strong production from this year.

- S Bradley McDougald 3.3m, FA
- S Tedric Thompson 0.72m, 4th
- S Akeem King 0.56m, FA
- S Delano Hill 0.77m, 3rd
- CB Shaq Griffin 0.78m, 3rd
- CB Tre Flowers 0.55m, 6th
- CB Justin Coleman 2.9m, FA
- CB Neiko Thorpe 2.2m, FA

The total for this whole group is ~11.8m and ~400 points on the draft value chart (equivalent of one #50 overall pick).

We're going to have lots of cap space next year and will probably bring in another large group of cheap rookies. It's definitely not a disaster if Pete wants to spend $$$ on a QB who fits his system perfectly and willingly does everything Pete asks of him. A great working relationship goes a very long way at higher levels and many underestimate how completely Pete and Russ have had each other's backs since day 1.

Wow, thanks for breaking it down this way. Those numbers make it seem like it won't be a problem for Pete to keep Russ for a few more years, even at the high price he'll probably command.

You're correct about Pete developing a great defense using lower tiered players. QB is one area I'd rather spend the money on. That and pass-rushers.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I guess game mangers dont win games either?

Interesting stat here...

Wilson has 19 4th quarter comebacks and 24gwd in his young career

Already more then the god Erin Rodgers

13 4th comeback and 20 gwd

Aslo Pete & Wilson combo has the 2nd best record since they been with each other. Yeah lets get rid of these non producers.

I think you're misconstruing people's concerns here. People are not worried about Wilson as much as they are worried about Pete and his offensive philosophy. If we run the same sorts of offenses we've seen under Pete Carroll we could have a 30 million dollar QB that throws the ball 19 times a game. The other extreme is fielding an offense that sputters for three or more quarters due to poor offensive schemes.

Under Pete is does become a relevant question: "is Wilson worth 30 million or more per year". That 30 million will seriously gimp our team unless Pete Carroll changes up his offensive philosophy and gives Russ more autonomy. Our Quarterback is the most restricted QB in the NFL. We don't give him very much in the way of options for changing plays, and route options. Very simplistic style that has cost us many games, and will cost us even more if Russ is paid 30 million per year. We realistically could be seeing a lot more units like the frustrating 2017 team that can't seem to get out of their own way with Pete's style paired with a limited salary cap.

19 times a game, way to exaggerate that number. Wilson is throwing the ball an average 29 times throughout his career. While being one of the most efficient doing so. He wins games in the 4th quarter. There is no question paying him 30 million. You dont need a #1 receiver, you dont need a top running back, you dont even need an expensive o-line. If you dont have Wilson, you're going to end up paying more on other player positions because there really isn't any other proven qbs that has his abilities. If you want to try to get that royal flush go for it.

All of this. People are so screwed up with Madden and Fantasy leagues, and PFF crap.Wilson is a proven winner. The number are mostly irrelevant. People get so enamored with numbers. The only tell part of the story. IMHO not even the biggest part.

Yes, pay the man 30 million a year. We will go nowhere without him. People act like great quarterbacks are easy to come by. Look how long it took us to get straight after Lynch left (supposedly you can get a decent RB on the street corner). Where will our next QB come from. Even mid tier QBs are making lots of money.

BTW the salary cap will goes up and up every year along with the salaries. You hear the same drumbeat every time a player gets a raise. We will not be able to pay anyone if we give him that money. I see plenty of teams that survive through this impending doom. I would like to see an example of when a team imploded after paying a QB a fat contract. At least a QB in the top tier.

Perhaps I have not made myself clear. I'm not talking about the merits of Wilson himself, I'm talking about Pete's offensive philosophy, and whether or not he'd be willing to change it. I'm talking about both iterations of his offense, the one where Russell Wilson only touches the ball 23 times in a game, and the one that abandons the run, and throws nothing but long developing plays. If the Seahawks are going to shell out 30 million dollars for Russell Pete needs to commit to surrounding Russell with the offensive minds, and talent for him to succeed, and carry the team. I have seen no such commitment from Carroll. All we've gotten is yes men retreads under Carroll in this regard.

That 30 million dollars is going to severely hamstring our ability to acquire and keep talent on this roster. That likely means that the offense needs to shoulder a heavier burden than in years past. We can have an effective offense with all of the things Pete loves, as well as setting our QB up for success. A good example of this is the Pittsburgh Steelers offense.

If Carroll keeps running this style of offense, then perhaps we should let Wilson go if he comes at an Aaron Rodgers premium. What I'm saying is more a statement against Carroll than it is Wilson.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Perhaps I have not made myself clear. I'm not talking about the merits of Wilson himself, I'm talking about Pete's offensive philosophy, and whether or not he'd be willing to change it. I'm talking about both iterations of his offense, the one where Russell Wilson only touches the ball 23 times in a game, and the one that abandons the run, and throws nothing but long developing plays. If the Seahawks are going to shell out 30 million dollars for Russell Pete needs to commit to surrounding Russell with the offensive minds, and talent for him to succeed, and carry the team. I have seen no such commitment from Carroll. All we've gotten is yes men retreads under Carroll in this regard.

That 30 million dollars is going to severely hamstring our ability to acquire and keep talent on this roster. That likely means that the offense needs to shoulder a heavier burden than in years past. We can have an effective offense with all of the things Pete loves, as well as setting our QB up for success. A good example of this is the Pittsburgh Steelers offense.

If Carroll keeps running this style of offense, then perhaps we should let Wilson go if he comes at an Aaron Rodgers premium. What I'm saying is more a statement against Carroll than it is Wilson.

Oh, you've been plenty clear. But people simply disagree with you.

It's perfectly feasible, and maybe even desirable to pay Russ 30mil/year (speculation, of course, at this point) in a system where he doesn't need to "carry the team," as you put it. Why put that on any one player's shoulders? Russ can do it, but why should he have to if the entire team including RBs can shoulder the load? You lose your star QB to injury and the season's over. If you say it's that way now, then you're seriously underestimating Russ's contribution to our success in the current philosophy.

If this team is running the ball 35 times/game, that doesn't make the QB position any less valuable. In fact, I'd argue it's much more valuable since every drop back is that much more expensive and important to win likelihood.

You are more than welcome to create some kind of fantasy team around Alex Smith or, cough, cough, Sam Bradford (of old, I guess). But I'd take Russ at 30 mil and a strong running game be the focal point. Russ's sexy deep ball and occasional scramble magic thrown in to ensure the win make's him worth the $.

It's a philosophy you don't like. We get it. But you won't change anything by not liking it, so why not sit back and enjoy the ride? Why live through these years complaining? Your plan most definitely offers much less certainty of long-term success unless the stars absolutely aligned, and that's something neither you, nor anyone else here can create or guarantee. Few teams with the best strategists ever create it.

Pete should not be fired, and Russ should absolutelystay to compete in his offensive philosophy. And I expect he will.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Perhaps I have not made myself clear. I'm not talking about the merits of Wilson himself, I'm talking about Pete's offensive philosophy, and whether or not he'd be willing to change it. I'm talking about both iterations of his offense, the one where Russell Wilson only touches the ball 23 times in a game, and the one that abandons the run, and throws nothing but long developing plays. If the Seahawks are going to shell out 30 million dollars for Russell Pete needs to commit to surrounding Russell with the offensive minds, and talent for him to succeed, and carry the team. I have seen no such commitment from Carroll. All we've gotten is yes men retreads under Carroll in this regard.

That 30 million dollars is going to severely hamstring our ability to acquire and keep talent on this roster. That likely means that the offense needs to shoulder a heavier burden than in years past. We can have an effective offense with all of the things Pete loves, as well as setting our QB up for success. A good example of this is the Pittsburgh Steelers offense.

If Carroll keeps running this style of offense, then perhaps we should let Wilson go if he comes at an Aaron Rodgers premium. What I'm saying is more a statement against Carroll than it is Wilson.

Oh, you've been plenty clear. But people simply disagree with you.

It's perfectly feasible, and maybe even desirable to pay Russ 30mil/year (speculation, of course, at this point) in a system where he doesn't need to "carry the team," as you put it. Why put that on any one player's shoulders? Russ can do it, but why should he have to if the entire team including RBs can shoulder the load? You lose your star QB to injury and the season's over. If you say it's that way now, then you're seriously underestimating Russ's contribution to our success in the current philosophy.

If this team is running the ball 35 times/game, that doesn't make the QB position any less valuable. In fact, I'd argue it's much more valuable since every drop back is that much more expensive and important to win likelihood.

You are more than welcome to create some kind of fantasy team around Alex Smith or, cough, cough, Sam Bradford (of old, I guess). But I'd take Russ at 30 mil and a strong running game be the focal point. Russ's sexy deep ball and occasional scramble magic thrown in to ensure the win make's him worth the $.

It's a philosophy you don't like. We get it. But you won't change anything by not liking it, so why not sit back and enjoy the ride? Why live through these years complaining? Your plan most definitely offers much less certainty of long-term success unless the stars absolutely aligned, and that's something neither you, nor anyone else here can create or guarantee. Few teams with the best strategists ever create it.

Pete should not be fired, and Russ should absolutelystay to compete in his offensive philosophy. And I expect he will.

Pete staying is ensuring years of crippling mediocrity. The game has passed him by. He personally secured most of our losses this season through poor decision making, and lack of clock awareness.

We won our Super Bowl through a bunch of guys on their rookie contracts. Those contracts allowed us to secure high end free agents such as Avril, Bennett, and secure depth such as Allen Branch. That doesn't happen with our QB eating up 30 million dollars of our cap room. A 30 million dollar Russell Wilson is the difference between getting a Bennett or not getting a Bennett, the difference between keeping a Kam Chancellor and not keeping a Kam Chancellor. That 30 million dollar contract means more of the burden is shifted towards the Quarterback and the offense. Throwing a deep ball occasionally does not constitute 30 million dollars, i'm sorry. That is a recipe for crippling mediocrity. What we've done against the Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, and Cowboys could've been replicated by an Alex Smith kind of character. If that is the kind of ball the Seahawks want to play then why even bother paying for a ferrari of a Quarterback? It makes no sense.

Pete ball is going to end his tenure in Seattle.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I guess game mangers dont win games either?

Interesting stat here...

Wilson has 19 4th quarter comebacks and 24gwd in his young career

Already more then the god Erin Rodgers

13 4th comeback and 20 gwd

Aslo Pete & Wilson combo has the 2nd best record since they been with each other. Yeah lets get rid of these non producers.

I think you're misconstruing people's concerns here. People are not worried about Wilson as much as they are worried about Pete and his offensive philosophy. If we run the same sorts of offenses we've seen under Pete Carroll we could have a 30 million dollar QB that throws the ball 19 times a game. The other extreme is fielding an offense that sputters for three or more quarters due to poor offensive schemes.

Under Pete is does become a relevant question: "is Wilson worth 30 million or more per year". That 30 million will seriously gimp our team unless Pete Carroll changes up his offensive philosophy and gives Russ more autonomy. Our Quarterback is the most restricted QB in the NFL. We don't give him very much in the way of options for changing plays, and route options. Very simplistic style that has cost us many games, and will cost us even more if Russ is paid 30 million per year. We realistically could be seeing a lot more units like the frustrating 2017 team that can't seem to get out of their own way with Pete's style paired with a limited salary cap.

19 times a game, way to exaggerate that number. Wilson is throwing the ball an average 29 times throughout his career. While being one of the most efficient doing so. He wins games in the 4th quarter. There is no question paying him 30 million. You dont need a #1 receiver, you dont need a top running back, you dont even need an expensive o-line. If you dont have Wilson, you're going to end up paying more on other player positions because there really isn't any other proven qbs that has his abilities. If you want to try to get that royal flush go for it.

All of this. People are so screwed up with Madden and Fantasy leagues, and PFF crap.Wilson is a proven winner. The number are mostly irrelevant. People get so enamored with numbers. The only tell part of the story. IMHO not even the biggest part.

Yes, pay the man 30 million a year. We will go nowhere without him. People act like great quarterbacks are easy to come by. Look how long it took us to get straight after Lynch left (supposedly you can get a decent RB on the street corner). Where will our next QB come from. Even mid tier QBs are making lots of money.

BTW the salary cap will goes up and up every year along with the salaries. You hear the same drumbeat every time a player gets a raise. We will not be able to pay anyone if we give him that money. I see plenty of teams that survive through this impending doom. I would like to see an example of when a team imploded after paying a QB a fat contract. At least a QB in the top tier.

This ^^^ is the a real problem with how people evaluate or think of QB's in particular.

Look at Rodgers vs. Russell career number so far ( per season averages )

Yds/season: Russell 3683 yds - Rodgers 3903 yds

TD: Russell 27 - AR 31

Comp%: Russell 64.1% - AR 64.9%

INT: Russell 9.4 - AR 7.6

Yds/Attempt (career): Russell 7.8 - AR 7.9

Win %: Russell 67% - AR 63%

Super Bowl record: Russell 1-1 / AR 1-0

Playoff Record: Russell 8-4 / AR 9-7

Russell is in his 7th year and AR in his 11th (as a starter). If you were looking at the number for each blind, you might say they were pretty even.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

This whole thread is laughable. You did see what happened when SF fired a top tier coach right?

 

[bmorepunk]

The probability that this team lands another coach as good as Carroll, even taking his negatives into consideration, is low. The probability that they find another quarterback as Russell Wilson is also low. The probability of both those things happening together are stupid low.

I'm not a believer that Carroll "can't win". He's not the best guy in the league, but he's one of the best ones. You could theoretically find a slightly better coach than Carroll, but that's not likely at all. What you can easily do, and what is far more likely, is find a coach that will have you wishing for Carroll back by the end of the season.

Sox is right; SF has gone down the tubes after losing their coach. Denver can't get their crap together because they can't find the right coach or right QB. And both those teams were ridiculous not that long ago.

Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland, both the NY teams, Indianapolis, Detroit, Tampa Bay, and Buffalo are also wallowing in a seemingly endless hell of coach and/or QB problems. Washington, Houston, the Chargers, Cincinnati, Miami, and Dallas are a mixed bag.

The Seahawks don't have a lot of room to go up with a coach and a QB, but they have a long way down to go.

 

[Mad Dog]

[
Yes you do, the likes of Sam Bradford, and Alex Smith used to put up those numbers all of the time. You DO NOT pay a Quarterback 30 million dollars to just manage the game. Can Russ do more? Yeah, he can, will Pete let him is the question. The concern that many have is to what degree will this affect our ability to field a competitive team. That 30 million dollar salary means we sacrifice depth, it means we will not be able to retain some star players. It means an overall weaker team. The 2013 team would not have happened without players like Russ being paid pennies on the dollar. This style of offense with a team that has the talent level of the Packers would not be a pretty sight.

As of right now the Seahawks are 30th in salary cap room. Who do you sacrifice in order to pay Russ that salary? Griffin, Clark, and Reed will also need to be resigned around the same time that Wilson's contract comes up for renewal. This is why you don't pay a QB 30 million dollars just to manage a game that is asinine. You need your QB to take over the game at that price point. I'm not just talking about throwing it a lot either, I'm talking about being a field general.

Russell is on pace for 40 TD's and 10 INT's. That's not game manager numbers. Don't recall Bradford or Smith ever coming close to that kind of production.
Volume numbers are for Fantasy Football fans. Real football requires passing efficiency and red zone efficiency. And you pay a guy 30 million if he has those qualities. Not to fling the ball around 40 times a game and go 7-9 like Matt Stafford.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

We won our Super Bowl through a bunch of guys on their rookie contracts.

We don't win that Super Bowl without Wilson and his third-down production (a staple of every great QB). If we can get a QB on a cheap deal somehow, great, that's icing on the cake. But it doesn't change the fact that we need a Wilson. We either pay through the nose to get him or go back to the late rounds hoping for a diamond in the rough. But we need a Wilson.

He isn't a game manager. No game manager does those electrifying play-salvagings he does. That's entirely outside the definition of "game manager".

 

[fire_marshall_bill]

Fire the guy who got to consecutive Super Bowls?

No. Nobody in the league goes 12-4 every year, except for NE, and it's pretty well documented that they cheat, and will continue to cheat, and cheat, and cheat, and cheat. The Steelers don't, the Packers don't, the Broncos don't. It just doesn't happen. Does Pete have faults? Sure, but he's now a top 5 or 6 coach.

If he has a couple straight 6-10 seasons, sure.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

Perhaps I have not made myself clear. I'm not talking about the merits of Wilson himself, I'm talking about Pete's offensive philosophy, and whether or not he'd be willing to change it. I'm talking about both iterations of his offense, the one where Russell Wilson only touches the ball 23 times in a game, and the one that abandons the run, and throws nothing but long developing plays. If the Seahawks are going to shell out 30 million dollars for Russell Pete needs to commit to surrounding Russell with the offensive minds, and talent for him to succeed, and carry the team. I have seen no such commitment from Carroll. All we've gotten is yes men retreads under Carroll in this regard.

That 30 million dollars is going to severely hamstring our ability to acquire and keep talent on this roster. That likely means that the offense needs to shoulder a heavier burden than in years past. We can have an effective offense with all of the things Pete loves, as well as setting our QB up for success. A good example of this is the Pittsburgh Steelers offense.

If Carroll keeps running this style of offense, then perhaps we should let Wilson go if he comes at an Aaron Rodgers premium. What I'm saying is more a statement against Carroll than it is Wilson.

Oh, you've been plenty clear. But people simply disagree with you.

It's perfectly feasible, and maybe even desirable to pay Russ 30mil/year (speculation, of course, at this point) in a system where he doesn't need to "carry the team," as you put it. Why put that on any one player's shoulders? Russ can do it, but why should he have to if the entire team including RBs can shoulder the load? You lose your star QB to injury and the season's over. If you say it's that way now, then you're seriously underestimating Russ's contribution to our success in the current philosophy.

If this team is running the ball 35 times/game, that doesn't make the QB position any less valuable. In fact, I'd argue it's much more valuable since every drop back is that much more expensive and important to win likelihood.

You are more than welcome to create some kind of fantasy team around Alex Smith or, cough, cough, Sam Bradford (of old, I guess). But I'd take Russ at 30 mil and a strong running game be the focal point. Russ's sexy deep ball and occasional scramble magic thrown in to ensure the win make's him worth the $.

It's a philosophy you don't like. We get it. But you won't change anything by not liking it, so why not sit back and enjoy the ride? Why live through these years complaining? Your plan most definitely offers much less certainty of long-term success unless the stars absolutely aligned, and that's something neither you, nor anyone else here can create or guarantee. Few teams with the best strategists ever create it.

Pete should not be fired, and Russ should absolutelystay to compete in his offensive philosophy. And I expect he will.

Pete staying is ensuring years of crippling mediocrity. The game has passed him by. He personally secured most of our losses this season through poor decision making, and lack of clock awareness.

We won our Super Bowl through a bunch of guys on their rookie contracts. Those contracts allowed us to secure high end free agents such as Avril, Bennett, and secure depth such as Allen Branch. That doesn't happen with our QB eating up 30 million dollars of our cap room. A 30 million dollar Russell Wilson is the difference between getting a Bennett or not getting a Bennett, the difference between keeping a Kam Chancellor and not keeping a Kam Chancellor. That 30 million dollar contract means more of the burden is shifted towards the Quarterback and the offense. Throwing a deep ball occasionally does not constitute 30 million dollars, i'm sorry. That is a recipe for crippling mediocrity. What we've done against the Raiders, Rams, Cardinals, and Cowboys could've been replicated by an Alex Smith kind of character. If that is the kind of ball the Seahawks want to play then why even bother paying for a ferrari of a Quarterback? It makes no sense.

Pete ball is going to end his tenure in Seattle.

The reasons you state for Pete personally securing our losses have absolutely zero to do with the game passing him by. Is there a new style of clock management? Poor decision making? Those aren’t stylistic, philosophical tendencies. Those are mistakes made in specific time and space. Without those mistakes and a properly executed FG here and there, his philosophy has us basically undefeated. It isn’t the philosophy that has lost us games, it’s execution of a young, rebuilt defense and a developing OLine and run game. We’re 3-1 after two tough road losses to start the season.