Emmanuel Sanders traded to the 49ers

[chris98251]

This could pay huge dividends for the 49ers and Grab a Ho, I liken it to getting Bobby Engram, savvy great hands and clutch, don't need speed just know where the markers are and get open and occasionally run after the catch.

Can I say they suck now, 49ers and building for a few years, Sanders being used and at this stage of his career could stick with them for a while.

 

[Nc49erfan]

How bad is the Webzone when Marvin, a die hard 9er fan posts here often and won't post there for 7 weeks? Wow, no wonder I've heard the term "cesspool" so often.

Its actually been a lot longer than 7 weeks. LOL.

I used to post every week and I haven't posted at all over there.

I don't have a problem with it so much, but whenever I post the way I do (a "Thoughts after rewatching the game") I get a parade of people who have only been there a few months or years b!@ch about me posting in the wrong place or duplicating a thread.

"Why does Marvin get to post like this and we don't!?! Wah!"

Some get pissed because I dare stray onto THIS board.

Got tiresome.

There are a ton of posters over there I like and respect, but there are quite a few that make me not want to. It takes time to put together one of those posts and when the first few responses are "TLDR", or "why do you get to post like this and I don't"...why bother?

AJ Green will actually be a FA next off-season, and i highly doubt he stays in CIN.

There are a few that will always complain, doesn't matter what it is. They just love to b!@ch about anything. I've read everyone of your "thoughts after the game" threads since you started writing them. And i haven't personally seen anyone say anything about why you get your own thread, but then again i don't read what everyone writes. I did comment on your last thread you made last year about asking where you were. LOL apparently i tricked a lot of people, they thought it was a recent post. We have also created threads to bring you back. I'm sure you occasionally get on the forum and read posts, is it week 8 yet? 8)

Lol I started one of those where’s Marvin threads. Me and Marvin have already talked about him and webzone I don’t blame him but will be thankful if he does post. Until then I can always check here or opposing teams forums for some of his knowledge.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

How bad is the Webzone when Marvin, a die hard 9er fan posts here often and won't post there for 7 weeks? Wow, no wonder I've heard the term "cesspool" so often.

Its actually been a lot longer than 7 weeks. LOL.

I used to post every week and I haven't posted at all over there.

I don't have a problem with it so much, but whenever I post the way I do (a "Thoughts after rewatching the game") I get a parade of people who have only been there a few months or years b!@ch about me posting in the wrong place or duplicating a thread.

"Why does Marvin get to post like this and we don't!?! Wah!"

Some get pissed because I dare stray onto THIS board.

Got tiresome.

There are a ton of posters over there I like and respect, but there are quite a few that make me not want to. It takes time to put together one of those posts and when the first few responses are "TLDR", or "why do you get to post like this and I don't"...why bother?

I won’t be able to post on my alt account there until we lose a game. I’m not even sure if the account is banned yet, but I hope to put something humorous there to cheer people up. I used to allegedly do it on the official 49ers board and got some laughs from depressed fans.

 

[Popeyejones]

The 49ers don't need to cut or trade Beathard when people come back (although I agree with Marvin that they can't trade him b/c he has no trade value, and I think they *should* cut him, even though I know Kyle won't).

The Rundown:

McGlinchey, Staley, Juice, Spoon, Deebo, and Jones require no cuts because they're already on the 53 and just not part of the active 46 while injured.

Sanders: Matthews is getting cut on Saturday, so no issue here.

Celek: Likely will be cut or IRd when he's ready, but if they want him Dwelley or Levine will be cut, as four TEs is as extravagant as 3 QBs, and we already know they won't keep four because they cut Smith with the intent to get him to the PS and he got poached by the Giants.

Only TWO of Taylor, Hurd, Verrett, and Street are allowed to come back from short term IR. The other two will just go on long-term IR.

Assuming they're all equally healthy, Street will go on long-term IR because they have insane depth across the d-line and don't need him. That one is very easy.

That leaves picking two from Taylor, Hurd, and Verrett, and to fit them you just have to cut guys who have already been available to other teams this year and who drew no interest, of which the 9ers already have three for two spots:

1) Dontae Johnson (easy cut if Verrett comes back)
2) Brunskill (not needed when Glinch and Staley are back)
3) Wilson (4 HBs is as extravagent as 3 QBs, and we already know he'll likely stay available because he's already been cut this year)

And just as a bonus, if the two they bring back are Taylor and Hurd for positional balance I think that means that James is one of the cuts, as he's the last WR on the depth chart, Taylor is probably a better punt returner than him to begin with, and now that Dante might be losing his starting job they'll be more likely to put him back there too.

REMEMBER too that this is all assuming they won't have any more players that need to be IRd in the next month or so (who will free up roster spots), and with the NFL as it is, it's very possible that happens too.

 

[Popeyejones]

Re: the webzone, I mostly just stick with the shorter posts there because everything just gets lost in the megathreads anyway, so there's not really any point in trying to have sustained and developed conversations.

More generally it's just a much more heavily trafficked forum, and because of that and the mega-threads there's just not much community there, IMO.

Also, because of pure numbers that means that the worst posters there are worse than the worst posters here, and the best posters there are better than the better posters here (that's not a shot to anyone here -- just an observation of fact that there aren't people here who spend all week each week breaking down and explaining all 22 game film, compared to the two people over there who are doing it week in and week out).

 

[Ramfan128]

Sanders is a solid player, and obviously fills a huge need - and I guess at 6-0 the Niners are feeling like contenders - but idk...when a team starts giving up draft capital, it's usually to "win now" - especially for a 32 year old player.

Seems like a lot for him - even if he re-signs, he could be done any year with that age. And he hasn't exactly had a clean injury history either.

Can definitely make them better right now - but if that's still not good enough to win it all, this is only a decent trade if he's still a good player next year, which is no guarantee.

 

[Washington49er]

Sanders is a solid player, and obviously fills a huge need - and I guess at 6-0 the Niners are feeling like contenders - but idk...when a team starts giving up draft capital, it's usually to "win now" - especially for a 32 year old player.

Seems like a lot for him - even if he re-signs, he could be done any year with that age. And he hasn't exactly had a clean injury history either.

Can definitely make them better right now - but if that's still not good enough to win it all, this is only a decent trade if he's still a good player next year, which is no guarantee.

Still think it's a better decision than bringing in Ramsey when your OL needs addressing

 

[Marvin49]

In preseason Shan said CJB and Mullens were extremely close. I think that's why they kept both.

Mullens does have more trade value; I can see him going possibly as high as a 4th, but I suspect that'd be a hard sell from the FO and fan perspective. You'd get less for cjb, but if released there'd likely be buyer competition given the qb market so could be worth a 6th/7th with the buyer probably high in draft order.

If they don't go that route, maybe RB Jeff Wilson or TE Jordan Matthews.

oh...to be clear, Jordan Matthews is a goner.

Wilson will only get released if their plan is to immediately resign him to the Practice Squad, but honestly I don't think he goes anywhere.

 

[Marvin49]

Sanders is a solid player, and obviously fills a huge need - and I guess at 6-0 the Niners are feeling like contenders - but idk...when a team starts giving up draft capital, it's usually to "win now" - especially for a 32 year old player.

Seems like a lot for him - even if he re-signs, he could be done any year with that age. And he hasn't exactly had a clean injury history either.

Can definitely make them better right now - but if that's still not good enough to win it all, this is only a decent trade if he's still a good player next year, which is no guarantee.

Honestly, I had big problems with the Ramsey trade because of the compensation so its not like I can say "GREAT MOVE!!" by the Niners here.

I like draft picks. Some always quote liking the known over the unknown but I think that's a fallacy. It rarely works that way.

So, I can sum it up like this. I like the player. I look forward to seeing what he brings.

I don't like the price, but I'm glad they didn't give up a 1.

With that 1, I want them to take a Tackle that they might be able to groom to play LT or RT in a few years when Staley retires. McGlinchey will be around a long while.

 

[Popeyejones]

Honestly, I had big problems with the Ramsey trade because of the compensation so its not like I can say "GREAT MOVE!!" by the Niners here.

I like draft picks. Some always quote liking the known over the unknown but I think that's a fallacy. It rarely works that way.

The big difference is that cost control isn't really an issue anymore, making draft picks less valuable (which is why the smart teams are totally fine with parting with them).

We all still treat cost control like it's a major issue because we got trained to do so for those eight or nine years when the cap was more or less flat, but it has been going up by 10 million a year for awhile now, and that's almost definitely going to continue into the foreseeable future given (1) the CBA coming up in which the players are likely to get an additional .75-1% of the rev split, and (2) all the broadcast contracts expiring in 2022.

My guess is that while all of the fan-facing analytics work is about on field play (because that's what most fans care about), a fair amount of the internal analytics work teams are doing is about correcting for asymmetries in draft vs. mid-tier veteran acquisition, and we just don't see that stuff because there's not a fan market for it.

So, I can sum it up like this. I like the player. I look forward to seeing what he brings.

I don't like the price, but I'm glad they didn't give up a 1.

With that 1, I want them to take a Tackle that they might be able to groom to play LT or RT in a few years when Staley retires. McGlinchey will be around a long while.

Agreed about being glad they didn't give up the 1 and how they might use it, although it feels kinda crazy as a 9ers fans to have to acknowledge that they might be able to use a high draft pick on a projected future need rather than a gaping hole that already exists on the roster. :lol:

If tackles aren't available there I'd hope the go for CB to start to prep for Sherman's exit, or trade back (my real preference).

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

It's not JUST about draft picks any more than it's JUST Bosa carrying that whole defense. It's a very involved differential equation involving not just that but also FA and intangibles like gut and luck. Also common sense.

For example, take Sherman. Failed physical. Released. He probably wouldn't have gotten picked up elsewhere but the 49ers. And he did extend right of first refusal to Hawks who didn't take it.

So Hawks then have Shaquill Griffin. He's promising. But he insisted on having his brother in whom there's no confidence in playing and reticence in saying so -- even as Kendricks above him is a convicted felon with sentencing scheduled Nov. 21.

These are things that can and should have been addressed in the draft signing. Because they weren't, now you now can't move on seamlessly as with anyone else because now the team and the nationwide perception is caught up in a Lifetime (or 60 Minutes) special. Better to have kept Sherm while looking for someone without unrealistic demands.

 

[chris98251]

It's not JUST about draft picks any more than it's JUST Bosa carrying that whole defense. It's a very involved differential equation involving not just that but also FA and intangibles like gut and luck. Also common sense.

For example, take Sherman. Failed physical. Released. He probably wouldn't have gotten picked up elsewhere but the 49ers. And he did extend right of first refusal to Hawks who didn't take it.

So Hawks then have Shaquill Griffin. He's promising. But he insisted on having his brother in whom there's no confidence in playing and reticence in saying so -- even as Kendricks above him is a convicted felon with sentencing scheduled Nov. 21.

These are things that can and should have been addressed in the draft signing. Because they weren't, now you now can't move on seamlessly as with anyone else because now the team and the nationwide perception is caught up in a Lifetime (or 60 Minutes) special. Better to have kept Sherm while looking for someone without unrealistic demands.

You keep bringing up the convicted felon aspect, but if he was a CEO of a corporation that do it all the time it's no big deal, insider trading really and assisting in steering value of stocks.

Really we should just take Wall Street, many of them try to get as much knowledge as they can from sources to trade and put them on a chain gang somewhere in China, he pleaded out and cooperated.

Lets look at guys with assault and multiple counts of disturbing the peace, domestic violence, not all are the fault person as we have seen, lots of gold diggers out there but when we start talking felons perspective needs to be taken into account.

Where it is a crime White Collar crimes happen all the time and are rarely pursued on this level if you have the money. Lets look at Kraft in New England.

Sorry but it is in every post about Kendrick's like you have an axe to grind.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

It's not JUST about draft picks any more than it's JUST Bosa carrying that whole defense. It's a very involved differential equation involving not just that but also FA and intangibles like gut and luck. Also common sense.

For example, take Sherman. Failed physical. Released. He probably wouldn't have gotten picked up elsewhere but the 49ers. And he did extend right of first refusal to Hawks who didn't take it.

So Hawks then have Shaquill Griffin. He's promising. But he insisted on having his brother in whom there's no confidence in playing and reticence in saying so -- even as Kendricks above him is a convicted felon with sentencing scheduled Nov. 21.

These are things that can and should have been addressed in the draft signing. Because they weren't, now you now can't move on seamlessly as with anyone else because now the team and the nationwide perception is caught up in a Lifetime (or 60 Minutes) special. Better to have kept Sherm while looking for someone without unrealistic demands.

You keep bringing up the convicted felon aspect, but if he was a CEO of a corporation that do it all the time it's no big deal, insider trading really and assisting in steering value of stocks.

Really we should just take Wall Street, many of them try to get as much knowledge as they can from sources to trade and put them on a chain gang somewhere in China, he pleaded out and cooperated.

Lets look at guys with assault and multiple counts of disturbing the peace, domestic violence, not all are the fault person as we have seen, lots of gold diggers out there but when we start talking felons perspective needs to be taken into account.

Where it is a crime White Collar crimes happen all the time and are rarely pursued on this level if you have the money. Lets look at Kraft in New England.

Sorry but it is in every post about Kendrick's like you have an axe to grind.

It's not that I hate Kendricks (even though he is the weakest link in the unit). It's that he has *already* been convicted of something that could get him 25 years. So what I think or anyone thinks about the crime, the conviction has already been done. The max for it is 25 years though realistically will be less (like 30 months and probably at a soft camp). But to assume no time and further no ankle bracelet is unrealistic. Even Martha Stewart didn't get that. He's already gotten one postponement, and it's unlikely that job demands will get him a second one.

So if they were gonna take on this guy, their stated plan on the depth chart is that Shaquem is next man up. He's been developed and should be ready, but there is zero convo about playing him with less than a month to the reported sentencing date. That's not a good plan.

ANY other player would have been played by now. Or released/traded. There's zero market for Shaquem. What does that tell you?

It tells me that the Hawks elevated him but are scared of getting rid fo him b/c his sibling will have a hissy. He's insisting that he be treated like anyone else, then what happens to anyone else should also apply.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

It's not JUST about draft picks any more than it's JUST Bosa carrying that whole defense. It's a very involved differential equation involving not just that but also FA and intangibles like gut and luck. Also common sense.

For example, take Sherman. Failed physical. Released. He probably wouldn't have gotten picked up elsewhere but the 49ers. And he did extend right of first refusal to Hawks who didn't take it.

So Hawks then have Shaquill Griffin. He's promising. But he insisted on having his brother in whom there's no confidence in playing and reticence in saying so -- even as Kendricks above him is a convicted felon with sentencing scheduled Nov. 21.

These are things that can and should have been addressed in the draft signing. Because they weren't, now you now can't move on seamlessly as with anyone else because now the team and the nationwide perception is caught up in a Lifetime (or 60 Minutes) special. Better to have kept Sherm while looking for someone without unrealistic demands.

All I saw was differential equation.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

OK. When the Sherm signing happened, I saw it as just chest-thumping on York's part. You'd see, for example, them even putting on jumbotron that Seahawks lost so that fans would find *something* to cheer about in the cellar years. And as Sherm is a charismatic public speaker always on the podium last year, I figured that was also why.

They continued losing in 2018. Everyone says it was just the QB. It wasn't, they had a lot of pieces they do now but not critical mass to make them go now. If JimmyD had to exit a game they were not having difficulty in, they would probably win it. Same with Bosa. Meanwhile, Sherm remains productive. There's no talk of him being the best current cornerback, but there isn't with Shaquill either. And I believe it is Sherman who's gotten a defensive DT this year.

SEA IMO got in their own heads over the Sherm leaving situation. They released him but verbally invited him to offer first rights of refusal should another team pick him up. Sherm offered them the chance to meet the 49ers contract. They said no. They then elevated Griffin into defacto a 1 for 2 and are now wasting a roster space in a unit of need, particularly imminent need that was obvious since 2018.

Greater football minds than me--like what I assume both Shan and Carroll are--should have seen this.

 

[Marvin49]

OK. When the Sherm signing happened, I saw it as just chest-thumping on York's part. You'd see, for example, them even putting on jumbotron that Seahawks lost so that fans would find *something* to cheer about in the cellar years. And as Sherm is a charismatic public speaker always on the podium last year, I figured that was also why.

They continued losing in 2018. Everyone says it was just the QB. It wasn't, they had a lot of pieces they do now but not critical mass to make them go now. If JimmyD had to exit a game they were not having difficulty in, they would probably win it. Same with Bosa. Meanwhile, Sherm remains productive. There's no talk of him being the best current cornerback, but there isn't with Shaquill either. And I believe it is Sherman who's gotten a defensive DT this year.

SEA IMO got in their own heads over the Sherm leaving situation. They released him but verbally invited him to offer first rights of refusal should another team pick him up. Sherm offered them the chance to meet the 49ers contract. They said no. They then elevated Griffin into defacto a 1 for 2 and are now wasting a roster space in a unit of need, particularly imminent need that was obvious since 2018.

Greater football minds than me--like what I assume both Shan and Carroll are--should have seen this.

I think you misunderstood the signing from the start.

I'm sure the 49ers were happy that there would be a "I'm gonna show you guys" attitude with Sherman, but the reason he was signed was because CB was a position of need, they had a ton of young players on that secondary who could benefit from a vet (similar to Emmanuel Sanders now), and the 49ers were running the same defense Sherman had been playing in his entire career.

It just added up.

There are a two reasons they were losing last year consistently:

1) QB Play. It was a big deal. Mullens played well down the stretch and was far better than Beathard, but the biggest reason they were losing was....

2) Outside pass rush. They were leading or within a single score in SEVERAL games last year and simply couldn't close. They couldn't prevent the other team from driving down the field and winning. Over and over, same problem.

So, what has resolved those issues?

Jimmy Garoppolo, Nick Bosa, Dee Ford, a healthy Sherman, and DL Coach Kris Kocurek.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^ Was going to post the same thing re: Sherm, so thanks for doing it!

The minute-by-minute account of Sherman coming to the 9ers was documented to death, both by beat writers, and in the huge piece Peter King did on it ( https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/12/richa ... peter-king ).

That Jed York had anything to do with Sherman coming to the 9ers beyond signing the check for it is just a truly bizarre claim that stands in the face of all of the reporting, and all of the obvious reasons why the move made so much sense.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

There are other factors, but you cannot realistically say that Jed or the 49ers-Seahawk hype or fan sentiment had nothing to do with the Sherm signing when it happened. If y'all went to Levi's in that time period, you'd see how they'd put up Seahawk losing scores just to get the fan base animated. If you're in market, you saw everyone in the local media highlight Sherm more than the QB.

What I am conceding now is that I was wrong in saying this was the only--and possibly pre-eminent factor. They didn't extend that to say Chancellor. That should have alerted SEA that possibly the possibility of real play was a factor. It didn't. SEA got in its own way with assuming they were right, this guy couldn't play at all (which is what a failed physical followed by release implies). They had right of first refusal and declined for someone who's promising, yes, but who comes with baggage far more sympathetic and harder to get rid of, which they're still not acknowledging. They could have gotten Sherm to play another year or two while having the same record instead of switching him for one of many promising someones who so far is only unique in getting a 1 for 2 quid pro quo unique to the NFL. Unprecedented heights of diva-ism, way more than Sherm IMO.

Sherm was tactically a very smart move for 49ers football-wise. There's nothing to be done about that personally really other than to bait my 49ers-homer SO with what he himself said about Sherm, particularly after the 2013 NFCCG game or seeing Sherm eat turkey over the 50 yard line. All the "character" stuff. But even he conceded at the time that things would be different if Sherm were on his team, which he now is.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

I think CB is their "real" need.By the time he came here, Sherm had already cemented himself as exactly what VC Silicon Valley wants. Young risk taker that succeeds despite adverse background. He could easily be an investor as Joe Montana is (and Joe's VC fund is of latest funding a top-down vertical scale MJ operation).

He's married his GF, has two kids now, has plenty of room to retire and get into pot or clean energy or wine. His position is difficult to replace,. but don't do what Hawks did and take Shaquill with the mandatory of Shaquem. And I say that as a Hawks fan. There's no room in the league for dumb Lifetime stuff.

 

[Marvin49]

There are other factors, but you cannot realistically say that Jed or the 49ers-Seahawk hype or fan sentiment had nothing to do with the Sherm signing when it happened. If y'all went to Levi's in that time period, you'd see how they'd put up Seahawk losing scores just to get the fan base animated. If you're in market, you saw everyone in the local media highlight Sherm more than the QB.

What I am conceding now is that I was wrong in saying this was the only--and possibly pre-eminent factor. They didn't extend that to say Chancellor. That should have alerted SEA that possibly the possibility of real play was a factor. It didn't. SEA got in its own way with assuming they were right, this guy couldn't play at all (which is what a failed physical followed by release implies). They had right of first refusal and declined for someone who's promising, yes, but who comes with baggage far more sympathetic and harder to get rid of, which they're still not acknowledging. They could have gotten Sherm to play another year or two while having the same record instead of switching him for one of many promising someones who so far is only unique in getting a 1 for 2 quid pro quo unique to the NFL. Unprecedented heights of diva-ism, way more than Sherm IMO.

Sherm was tactically a very smart move for 49ers football-wise. There's nothing to be done about that personally really other than to bait my 49ers-homer SO with what he himself said about Sherm, particularly after the 2013 NFCCG game or seeing Sherm eat turkey over the 50 yard line. All the "character" stuff. But even he conceded at the time that things would be different if Sherm were on his team, which he now is.

eh.....yeah.

I think you are a Seahawk fan in an area that hates the Seahawks and are hypersensitive.

They have ALWAYS cheered when the out of town scoreboard showed a Seahawk loss. That didn't just happen when Sherman moved.

Is it a bonus that its a dig at the Seahawks to sign Sherman? Sure! Just like every single other time the two teams signed each others players.

The 49ers would NOT have signed him to that contract just to take a dig at the Seahawks tho. They needed him and he was available. To make the conclusion that the owner just wanted to piss off the Seahawks is kinda ludicrous...and an insult to Shanahan and Lynch.

The rest of this is just your own interior monologue over whether the Seahawks should have let him go or not. For me...they did. He was available. They got him. Period.

I make no bones about it. I HATED him. I mean HATE. I remember cheering the glorious moment in the Super Bowl when they showed his reaction to Wilsons game ending INT. To be fair, I'll never forget it...but in many ways its because of the full on man embrace with one of my best friends afterward, and that friend has now left this world due to the jackassery that is cancer.

My views on Sherman tho changed long before he signed in SF. That changed mostly as the world changed so dramatically RE politics, and I very often found myself in complete agreement with him. Add to that that the 49ers absolutely sucked, so the rival factor ebbed. I mean the Seahawks were on a huge winning streak in SF that fans kept talking about but I didn't even notice because it didn't stand out...they were losing to EVERYONE. LOL.