DT Malik McDowell expected to be released

[Sgt. Largent]

I wouldn't call immaturity bad character.

Yelling at cops and telling them "Dumb azz n------" and "You'll be a broke bitch for the rest of your life." is awful character and a lack of parenting.

I agree, but this happened in December, not before we drafted Malik.

People keep trying to tie red flag character flaws into some poor decision by Pete and John to draft him............and the only red flags on Malik were a couple bad interviews and his on the field motor and effort issues.

And it's no worse or better than other reaches we made that have paid off, most notably Clark and Irvin, who had WAY worse off the field issues than Malik.

That arrest video is our insight to the serious character flaws other team scouts and excecs around the NFL saw at the combine. Pete and John had their chance to investigate what so many others saw also. I see no reason to give them a pass on making this piss poor draft pick. Especially given the other excellent players that were available at the time still.

And..............that's why McDowell fell to the top half of the second round, and would have been chosen quickly by someone else if we didn't pick him.

It's EXACTLY where he was predicted to fall, so it's not like this was some major reach on our part, and we should have known better.

Unless you're picking in the top 10 when every box can be checked off on draft picks, there's always going to be negatives, off the field and on with draft picks. That's LITERALLY why they're not picked higher.

 

[Seymour]

Yelling at cops and telling them "Dumb azz n------" and "You'll be a broke bitch for the rest of your life." is awful character and a lack of parenting.

I agree, but this happened in December, not before we drafted Malik.

People keep trying to tie red flag character flaws into some poor decision by Pete and John to draft him............and the only red flags on Malik were a couple bad interviews and his on the field motor and effort issues.

And it's no worse or better than other reaches we made that have paid off, most notably Clark and Irvin, who had WAY worse off the field issues than Malik.

That arrest video is our insight to the serious character flaws other team scouts and excecs around the NFL saw at the combine. Pete and John had their chance to investigate what so many others saw also. I see no reason to give them a pass on making this piss poor draft pick. Especially given the other excellent players that were available at the time still.

And..............that's why McDowell fell to the top half of the second round, and would have been chosen quickly by someone else if we didn't pick him.

It's EXACTLY where he was predicted to fall, so it's not like this was some major reach on our part, and we should have known better.

Unless you're picking in the top 10 when every box can be checked off on draft picks, there's always going to be negatives, off the field and on with draft picks. That's LITERALLY why they're not picked higher.

IMO, that is 100% homer based speculation.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I agree, but this happened in December, not before we drafted Malik.

People keep trying to tie red flag character flaws into some poor decision by Pete and John to draft him............and the only red flags on Malik were a couple bad interviews and his on the field motor and effort issues.

And it's no worse or better than other reaches we made that have paid off, most notably Clark and Irvin, who had WAY worse off the field issues than Malik.

That arrest video is our insight to the serious character flaws other team scouts and excecs around the NFL saw at the combine. Pete and John had their chance to investigate what so many others saw also. I see no reason to give them a pass on making this piss poor draft pick. Especially given the other excellent players that were available at the time still.

And..............that's why McDowell fell to the top half of the second round, and would have been chosen quickly by someone else if we didn't pick him.

It's EXACTLY where he was predicted to fall, so it's not like this was some major reach on our part, and we should have known better.

Unless you're picking in the top 10 when every box can be checked off on draft picks, there's always going to be negatives, off the field and on with draft picks. That's LITERALLY why they're not picked higher.

IMO, that is 100% homer based speculation.

Walters Football

He could easily go in the second round, might sneak into the back half of the first round, and shouldn't fall any lower than the third round.

Todd McShay

“He probably could come off the board in the 10-25 range,” McShay said.

Sports Illustrated

Which brings us to McDowell, who when playing at his peak has looked like a top-five talent relative to this draft class. Of course, one really has to dial back to 2015 to get the complete McDowell experience because of a hit-or-miss ’16, but his size (6' 6", 295 lbs.) and athleticism up front make him an option for just about any team drafting in Round 1.

Mel Kiper

On pure talent alone, McDowell might be a top-10 pick. ... He’s a physical specimen,” Kiper wrote. “But he didn't have a great junior season, posting just 11/2 sacks in eight games, and there are questions around the league about his effort. Late First Round or Early Second is where I have McDowell."

 

[AgentDib]

If you are going to use that press conference to argue that PC/JS think drafting McDowell was a mistake, it would be decent of you to also quote the bit where they directly addressed their thoughts on McDowell.

PC: We're waiting to see what happens and we're hoping that we get good information soon. Unfortunately... we don't have anything new for you and we don't have an update that makes this a call - how we're going to do deal with this yet - it's not available for us.
...
JS: There's a lot of stuff we just can't get into, sorry. There's a lot of things... it's a really unfortunate situation on both sides.
PC: We haven't had a good update in a long time.

JS: You can't just create a perfect player, otherwise we'd be outside picking them off trees. Everybody has deficiencies and what are the strengths that we can work with.
...
PC: Some of the things you can't predict - there aint nothing you can do about it. We had a little bit of misfortune, a guy last year, didn't get a chance to play for us. It was disappointing you know, and so, but there was nothing you could do to know that that was going to happen, it just happened. All the teams are living with the ups and downs, how did it work out...

I'm sure that isn't going to convince anybody, but at the least it should be clear that the FO views McDowell's injury as an unfortunate, unpredictable event.

I also hope at this point everybody has realized that the source of the rumor in the OP was McDowell's agent, who is attempting to get McDowell either cleared to play or released so he can try his luck getting cleared with another team's medical staff.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Come on Largent, stop coming up with facts :lol:
In order to shred the Front Office, we can't have that

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Come on Largent, stop coming up with facts :lol:
In order to shred the Front Office, we can't have that

Yeah Seymour and others are the greatest hindsight draft experts in the history of fandom.

Never heard one peep out of these guys about Irvin and Clark, who were even riskier character picks. But as soon as McDowell had his accident, all of sudden the FO missed ALL the red flags!

WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR CRYSTAL BALL JOHN AND PETE, WHY DIDN'T YOU SEE THIS COMING!! THE HUMANITY!!

 

[KiwiHawk]

Keep in mind these are not grown rational human beings we're talking about. They are effectively kids, and not just kids but big strong kids who for the most part seem invulnerable.

They've gone through college and seen their peers blow out knees and have gruesome fractures, but they come through it all unscathed.

The average age of a drafted player is under 23 years old. The rational part of the human brain doesn't finish forming until age 25.

This is why you take some risks. Kids do learn from mistakes, from time to time, and people in general do mature. I am sure several people here would not have touched Marshawn Lynch with a 10-foot pole due to his character issues, but I think we'd all agree he got better in Seattle than he was in Buffalo.

McDowell didn't suffer injury from a character issue. Hands up anyone who has never in his life got on a bicycle, motorcycle, or quad bike without wearing a helmet. Anyone? I'm a responsible husband, father, and homeowner who commutes to a responsible job every day and has never been arrested in 51 years of life, and yet I used to do stupid crap on a bike without a helmet when I was a kid.

Do I do it now? No, because I'm not as stupid as I was then. My brain is fully developed. I don't have the sense of invulnerability the young have.

But am I going to judge McDowell for doing something stupid based on character issues? Hell no. He did something stupid because he was young, invulnerable, and impulsive. Maybe he even thought a helmet made him look dorky so there was vanity involved. Who knows? But it wasn't because of a bad character. Character doesn't enter into youthful stupidity.

 

[Cyrus12]

I honestly don't care about red flags for being violent or committing petty crimes.

So conflating Clark with MM is ridiculous.

A red flag for violent behavior when you want a violent guy? Sure. Worst case you end up doing what SF did and getting a guy that gets you some bad ink, maybe loses you a draft pick (go look at what Charles Haley did, however). But if you can keep them out of the front page - you can get a player that may have slid because of those concerns. (A certain Bengals safety comes to mind).

SF took a hit for good LB and maybe Aldon Smith has run out of chances, but you also get guys like Ray Lewis due to those issues, so you take the risk.

Generally, though there is SOME risk in having those guys blow up on you, some of them work out for you. Frank Clark is a good example, because changing the background and circumstances can SOMETIMES change the options a player is faced with.

Lynch was a red flag for a number of reasons but it was NEVER his work ethic.

BUT guys with work ethic problems ? They rarely work out for you. So it is a STUPID red flag to take a chance on.

Great talent combined with low commitment isn't a recipe that gets you much. Hell, even Dion Jordan - who everyone is excited about, burned his first team badly.

Guys that take lots of plays off and show indifference (as pointed out earlier) are dumb risks.

The only stupider thing about this was the fact we wasted a pick on DT where we were less in need than backup safeties or starting OL. As pointed out, the Jags got a solid OL with the pick we gave them - so we could draft this clown. And Baker, an All Pro safety, was still on the board when we knew we needed someone to spell ET. (or knew we might not keep him!)

It was the absolute stupid move on the part of the FO, to reach on player with that much risk at a position we had less need than others. Positioning it any other way is ridiculous. Just as conflating guys with checkered backgrounds with guys that don't want to work is.

Niners are also now getting burned by Ruben Foster. I doubt he plays again. Ray Lewis got lucky....he ratted on his buddies to save his ass. Guess the experience smartened him up. I am more than happy kicking McDowell to the curb. Not worth the issues. Hoping we draft the best player available as opposed to the guy that could be good but has character and life choice issues.

 

[Jville]

I know these coaches think they can fix anyone. But that isn't always the outcome.

Signing Deon Jordan after he disappointed himself and others and after he was motivated to look inside of himself demonstrated great timing. Selective signings from previously designated red flag candidates is sometimes just a prudent exercise in timing.

The staff reviews itself every year. Adjustments are inevitable.

 

[chris98251]

Contrary to what many of the posters here would have you believe, there are actually talented athletes WITH great character out there as well. I prefer those, and thankfully it appears Pete and John do as well.

/thread

You and Tim Ruskell should be room mates.

Give me a guy with a chip, some anger, some intensity and that won't take crap. Let him set the tine and the identity of our team. Choir boys are what we had from 1977 - 2009, yeah we won with Holmgren and it was a good time but we never had a Nasty defense that set the tone of a game and that you were in a war, with Mike it was a chess match trying to stop his offense and a hope we could use the prevent defense to not lose the game. Looked like we could have one till Rhodes left. Pity.

Really liked the feel we had 2011 and on, the hope we could have offense and defense be able to dictate the game however never really matured to our talent level, would be nice to see Pete put both together in his final run.

Yes. More "choir boys" like Cortez Kennedy, Steve Largent, Walter Jones. Steve Hutchinson please. :roll:

You had a few but Largent and Zorn were the good guys, never said a word sideways about anyone, Largent let his play on the field lead.

Kennedy the exception, he took on Behring and spoke out. But when your team stinks the keep your head down and work hard is all you can do. Speaking out and up in the media when your 2 and 14 is like celebrating touchdowns behind by 24.

Hutch was ferocious on the field along with Jones, but both overshadowed by Holmgren who nobody would challange. The most out spoken player I remember was Springs and he was shipped out. Remember also if you commited a penalty you heard about it on Holmgrens teams make it a habit you didn't play, fumble the ball you got yanked off the field as a RB and if you threw a pick Holmgren was in your ear.

There was a seperation of Coaches and players that was pretty distinct with Holmgren and Knox actually. You didn't piss off either one without reprocussions. Thats more along the Belechik line then the Pete line of coaching, but you can have both as long as there is a line. I think Petes line is very blurred.

 

[Seymour]

I think even Pete thinks that Pete's line is blurred.

 

[SeaWolv]

All I got to say is Sparty gonna spart.

 

[SeaWolv]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AaronQ13Fox/status/988525636732862465[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Softykjr/status/988526361202507776[/tweet]

Ignore obvious signs that will limit a player from being his best? Sound logic there.

It's only worked for Frank Clark 1/3? 1/4?

If you have an opportunity to Draft a top 10 guy that slid all the way to 35 in last years draft you do it. They didn't have all the data we do now on the guy other than some accusations that he took plays off at MSU, who really knows what happened there. He also had a bad combine interview. Not a lot to go on certainly not enough to dissuade you from taking a shot at that level of talent that's basically on sale.

They were able to trade down for more picks and got some decent talent doing so and were still able to get McDowell. No one knew he was going to get on that quad and wreck or start a fight in Atlanta. He may yet be of benefit to the team.

 

[brimsalabim]

NFL GMs that met with the guy said he was one of the worst Interviews they had ever sat down with. Our office thought they knew better though and used what passes for a high level pick around here on the historical misfit. That roll came up craps. None of that is debatable. Can we please just admit it was a dumbass pick, learn from it, and move on?

 

[KiwiHawk]

NFL GMs that met with the guy said he was one of the worst Interviews they had ever sat down with. Our office thought they knew better though and used what passes for a high level pick around here on the historical misfit. That roll came up craps. None of that is debatable. Can we please just admit it was a dumbass pick, learn from it, and move on?

Like choosing a too-tall, too-slow WR-turned-cornerback was a dumbass pick? In hindsight, Sherman would have been worth even a first-round pick. However, the guys doing the picking don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Until these guys hit the field, you can't tell what's a dumbass pick and what isn't. Even the most-secure blue-chip players like Aaron Curry can flame out.

You want them not to take any chances? Maybe you think Russell Wilson was a mistake? After all, a short guys is a misfit at QB, right?

 

[Spin Doctor]

NFL GMs that met with the guy said he was one of the worst Interviews they had ever sat down with. Our office thought they knew better though and used what passes for a high level pick around here on the historical misfit. That roll came up craps. None of that is debatable. Can we please just admit it was a dumbass pick, learn from it, and move on?

Like choosing a too-tall, too-slow WR-turned-cornerback was a dumbass pick? In hindsight, Sherman would have been worth even a first-round pick. However, the guys doing the picking don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Until these guys hit the field, you can't tell what's a dumbass pick and what isn't. Even the most-secure blue-chip players like Aaron Curry can flame out.

You want them not to take any chances? Maybe you think Russell Wilson was a mistake? After all, a short guys is a misfit at QB, right?

What did all of those guys have that Malik McDowell did not? A chip on their shoulder and a drive to be the best at what they did. Malik McDowell lacked the drive to be great. He took a lot of plays off in MSU, and sometimes even straight up decided to give up.

Sherman was a man who thought he had been wronged by Harbaugh. He wanted to prove to the NFL that he was the best at whatever position he decided to play. He worked hard at honing his craft, and as a result we got a cornerback that one day may go into Canton.

Russell Wilson was known as a hard worker who would be the first one to show up, last to leave. He believed in his abilities and himself. Wilson had been practicing ever since he had been a little kid to fulfill his dream of being the best NFL QB.

Players that show no drive, players that slowly coast are never worth the risk. McDowell is exactly what people said he was. A talented athlete without drive, or motivation. JaMarcus Russell syndrome. Potential is a value that never has to be realized.

Pete Carroll, and Schneider got enamored with his physical traits. So much so that they overlooked some massive red flags that most were able to see. The reason most people are up in arms about this is because of a disturbing trend that the Seahawks have been showing lately. Since the 2012 draft, Pete Carroll and John Schneider have churned out some abysmal drafts. If this were just a one time thing I think people would be disappointed, but move on. The Malik McDowell fiasco is just a symptom of something more sinister that has eroded this team away --- bad drafting, bad trading and questionable FO acquisitions.

 

[SeaWolv]

NFL GMs that met with the guy said he was one of the worst Interviews they had ever sat down with. Our office thought they knew better though and used what passes for a high level pick around here on the historical misfit. That roll came up craps. None of that is debatable. Can we please just admit it was a dumbass pick, learn from it, and move on?

What is the "historical misfit" comment based on?? Hyperbole. He had some bad interviews? So what. The only interview that counts is the Seahawks. That's like saying he couldn't handle the pressure of the interview process so he must suck as a player. He isn't good at tests so he must suck. BS. A huge percentage of draft picks don't work out, that's the deal, but the final chapter hasn't been written on this kid. He may yet pull his head out and contribute.

I can't even believe I'm defending a Sparty, think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

 

[SeaWolv]

Malik McDowell lacked the drive to be great. He took a lot of plays off in MSU, and sometimes even straight up decided to give up. McDowell is exactly what people said he was. A talented athlete without drive, or motivation. JaMarcus Russell syndrome. Potential is a value that never has to be realized.

He may be that but my point is you don't know any of that. It was rumored he took plays off. That's all based on speculation. Show me you're proof that makes you so certain this kid is what you say he is. What about his Sophomore season at MSU?? What about HS? Don't look at his 2016 stats as he was injured. I now live in Michigan again (13 years in Bellevue) and am a huge UM fan, have been since I was born, so although that means I hate Spartans it also means I'm familiar with them. This kid could be really good but he needs to find his "Why" which is true for a lot of 21 year old kids.

 

[Hawk Finn]

Malik McDowell lacked the drive to be great. He took a lot of plays off in MSU, and sometimes even straight up decided to give up. McDowell is exactly what people said he was. A talented athlete without drive, or motivation. JaMarcus Russell syndrome. Potential is a value that never has to be realized.

He may be that but my point is you don't know any of that. It was rumored he took plays off. That's all based on speculation. Show me you're proof that makes you so certain this kid is what you say he is. What about his Sophomore season at MSU?? What about HS? Don't look at his 2016 stats as he was injured. I now live in Michigan again (13 years in Bellevue) and am a huge UM fan, have been since I was born, so although that means I hate Spartans it also means I'm familiar with them. This kid could be really good but he needs to find his "Why" which is true for a lot of 21 year old kids.

Yeah, the whole “motor/taking plays off” thing is a bit overblown. Especially in rotation like he’d have been in here.

I mean, I hated that Sam Adams took plays off. Now, what I’d give for a Sam Adams...

 

[Seymour]

NFL GMs that met with the guy said he was one of the worst Interviews they had ever sat down with. Our office thought they knew better though and used what passes for a high level pick around here on the historical misfit. That roll came up craps. None of that is debatable. Can we please just admit it was a dumbass pick, learn from it, and move on?

Like choosing a too-tall, too-slow WR-turned-cornerback was a dumbass pick? In hindsight, Sherman would have been worth even a first-round pick. However, the guys doing the picking don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Until these guys hit the field, you can't tell what's a dumbass pick and what isn't. Even the most-secure blue-chip players like Aaron Curry can flame out.

You want them not to take any chances? Maybe you think Russell Wilson was a mistake? After all, a short guys is a misfit at QB, right?

Comparing 5th and 3rd round picks and risk taking (Wilson was actually lower risk also) to taking first round (2nd after trade back but still our first pick) risks is not even in the same stratosphere.

I have no real issues with later round risks, but earlier round picks with excellent players at positions of need still on the board is just plain irresponsible IMO.