Did Thomas play up to his old deal?

[Sgt. Largent]

I say yes.

In addition, he grossly overplayed his first deal at Seattle. When you look at his entire body of work and what he accomplished at Seattle, he was worth every cent.

Agreed.

How can you grossly overplay being the highest paid safety in the league?

Read carefully.

1st deal in Seattle would be his rookie contract.

The question was "play up to his old deal." This doesn't mean his rookie contract, this means his 2nd contract.

Did he outplay his rookie deal? Of course, but how does that equal he deserves more now? That's not how this works. Players are worth what teams think they're future value is, not past performance.

Which btw is what we did wrong with MANY contracts, paid guys for how good they used to be.

 

[Uncle Si]

OP clearly stated 4 year 40 million extension from 2015.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Yes sir, he absolutely did.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

How can you grossly overplay being the highest paid safety in the league?

Is this true?

View attachment 2

Really, if you want to compare apples to apples, then closely look at Thomas' peers in this group:

Eric Berry
Reshad Jones

All three of these safeties entered the league in 2010. Berry, at every step of his career has outearned Earl. By a pretty significant margin:

Earl:

View attachment 1

Berry/Jones



If you want to get where Earl was at, you have to look at Jones' deal. That deal extended Jones through 2022 (where Earl wanted). The guarantees for Jones' third deal are massive by comparison to Earl's second. And Berry's guarantees on his third deal dwarfs both Jones' and Thomas' deals combined.

The reality is, Earl is and has been better than either Berry or Jones. Although they are all very close and clearly those three are the best in the NFL. But Berry and Jones had no difficulty getting their third deals.

Truth is, Earl is/was clearly not out of line in his salary demands. He has outplayed his peers and has not:

1. Seen the historical equivalent in compensation throughout his career
2. Seen the equivalent levels of guarantees
3. Seen the third contract

Earl has been short shrift on all three accounts compared to his peers. Quite honestly, I don't see why Seattle went to the mattresses on this one. Earl has been the one key player for the entire Carroll program. That includes Russell. He has certainly been more invaluable to his team than any of his safety peers. He's the only one where you can tailor an entire defensive scheme around him in such a way as to effectively play with 12 players on the field.

I am on Earl's side on this one in virtually every way.

 

[semiahmoo]

Thomas’ four-year, $40 million extension began in 2015. Yet, assuming Seattle misses the playoffs this season, he will have been hurt for 21 of the 68 games under that deal.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... both-lost/

Yes he did. Injuries happen.

It was his behind-the-scenes vibe that was more damaging to the team - not his play which continued to be among the best league-wise for his position.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

How can you grossly overplay being the highest paid safety in the league?

Is this true?.

For the third time, the OP's question was "DID THOMAS PLAY UP TO HIS OLD DEAL?" Key words "old deal."

Not new deals, not rookie deal, old deal. That means the contract he signed in 2015 that made him the highest paid safety in the league.

So no, it's mathematically impossible to grossly overplay a contract where you got paid more than anyone else.

 

[hawkfan68]

How can you grossly overplay being the highest paid safety in the league?

Is this true?

View attachment 2

Really, if you want to compare apples to apples, then closely look at Thomas' peers in this group:

Eric Berry
Reshad Jones

All three of these safeties entered the league in 2010. Berry, at every step of his career has outearned Earl. By a pretty significant margin:

Earl:

View attachment 1

Berry/Jones



If you want to get where Earl was at, you have to look at Jones' deal. That deal extended Jones through 2022 (where Earl wanted). The guarantees for Jones' third deal are massive by comparison to Earl's second. And Berry's guarantees on his third deal dwarfs both Jones' and Thomas' deals combined.

The reality is, Earl is and has been better than either Berry or Jones. Although they are all very close and clearly those three are the best in the NFL. But Berry and Jones had no difficulty getting their third deals.

Truth is, Earl is/was clearly not out of line in his salary demands. He has outplayed his peers and has not:

1. Seen the historical equivalent in compensation throughout his career
2. Seen the equivalent levels of guarantees
3. Seen the third contract

Earl has been short shrift on all three accounts compared to his peers. Quite honestly, I don't see why Seattle went to the mattresses on this one. Earl has been the one key player for the entire Carroll program. That includes Russell. He has certainly been more invaluable to his team than any of his safety peers. He's the only one where you can tailor an entire defensive scheme around him in such a way as to effectively play with 12 players on the field.

I am on Earl's side on this one in virtually every way.

Great post Attyla! Thanks for doing the research and sharing it with us. :2thumbs:

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

For the third time, the OP's question was "DID THOMAS PLAY UP TO HIS OLD DEAL?" Key words "old deal."

Not new deals, not rookie deal, old deal. That means the contract he signed in 2015 that made him the highest paid safety in the league.

So no, it's mathematically impossible to grossly overplay a contract where you got paid more than anyone else.

Even this isn't true. At only one point in time was Earl the highest paid safety. That wasn't 2014 (sic) the year Earl extended. That was 2017, the years both Jones and Berry were extended for their third contracts.

Consider, that Earls TOTAL amount earned for his entire 9 year career is barely more (500k) than Eric Berry's rookie contract alone. Berry has thus far been paid 160% more than Earl over their identical 9 year careers.

I can't tell what basis you have for claiming that the deal he signed in 2014 made him the highest paid safety. Certainly it didn't at the time he signed it. Nor did it ever eclipse deals after it. And at no time did his guarantees ever eclipse other safeties. On that account, his deals were decidedly not market setting.

I'd like to think I'm answering the question fully. Just having a hard time understanding where Earl was ever paid more than these others. The only time I would concede this would be the 2014 cash due year (where Earl's entire signing bonus paid out). But cash due is more a function of when you signed a deal and when the lump sum signing bonus is paid out.

It's worth noting that Earls base salary, plus the remainder of the signing bonus of his rookie deal plus the pro rated portion of his second deals' signing bonus all combined to less than Eric Berry's base salary from the same year. Berry's base + pro rated signing bonus was again about 150% of Earl's base + bonus contract 1 + bonus 2nd contract for the 2014 season.

 

[KARAVARUS]

For the third time, the OP's question was "DID THOMAS PLAY UP TO HIS OLD DEAL?" Key words "old deal."

Not new deals, not rookie deal, old deal. That means the contract he signed in 2015 that made him the highest paid safety in the league.

So no, it's mathematically impossible to grossly overplay a contract where you got paid more than anyone else.

Even this isn't true. At only one point in time was Earl the highest paid safety. That wasn't 2014 (sic) the year Earl extended. That was 2017, the years both Jones and Berry were extended for their third contracts.

Consider, that Earls TOTAL amount earned for his entire 9 year career is barely more (500k) than Eric Berry's rookie contract alone. Berry has thus far been paid 160% more than Earl over their identical 9 year careers.

I can't tell what basis you have for claiming that the deal he signed in 2014 made him the highest paid safety. Certainly it didn't at the time he signed it. Nor did it ever eclipse deals after it. And at no time did his guarantees ever eclipse other safeties. On that account, his deals were decidedly not market setting.

I'd like to think I'm answering the question fully. Just having a hard time understanding where Earl was ever paid more than these others. The only time I would concede this would be the 2014 cash due year (where Earl's entire signing bonus paid out). But cash due is more a function of when you signed a deal and when the lump sum signing bonus is paid out.

It's worth noting that Earls base salary, plus the remainder of the signing bonus of his rookie deal plus the pro rated portion of his second deals' signing bonus all combined to less than Eric Berry's base salary from the same year. Berry's base + pro rated signing bonus was again about 150% of Earl's base + bonus contract 1 + bonus 2nd contract for the 2014 season.

Fine. What you say is true, not even going to dispute it. No one I see is trying to claim that Earl Thomas doesn't deserve a third contract, and even one with a substantial raise. WE CAN'T AFFORD IT! I have no doubt Seattle was trying to find a way to keep him--why wouldn't you? At the same time, he was signed through this season at a pretty good amount. What if we knew we couldn't afford him after this year? Just because a player deserves the moon, doesn't mean that a franchise will have the means to give it to him. That kind of money comes with more than play on the field, IMO. If you're going to be paid top five money on the team, you better be a presence in that locker room and on that field that protects the franchise. Earl has grossly failed in that regard, and it started in Dallas last year. That was a serious WTF moment and it's been chaos ever since. He sure earned a third contract, but his actions have almost certainly declared that it needs to be from someone else. So go ahead and agree with him 100%. I do--dude deserves a deal. But we deserved better than we got (off the field) and that stinks.