Did Pete Just Lose the Team?

[TwistedHusky]

The truth of the matter is that replacing a coach rarely results in better outcomes.

But having a top QB is generally rare for a team too. And the NFL is built to allow teams with great QBs to succeed.

Old coaches do not get better, just gradually worse. We are at that point.

10% chance we find a good to great coach that can use Wilson right to turn us into a dangerous playoff contender.

90% chance we trade down. Likely that Wilson and the rest still pull out wins but the #s are reduced. However, there is a good chance we do better in the playoffs than under Pete (if we make them).

Regardless, you only get this spin at the wheel because you have Wilson. And you know, with certainty, what the future with Pete holds. After this year, you have to at least try because you won't get a chance like this often, if ever again.

To be honest, the regular season has been fun this year. But we all know what the playoffs will look like with Pete at the helm.

 

[Torc]

I won’t even give my thoughts on Hollister not trying a little harder to score. He made a “business decision”.

What business decision did he make?!? He caught the ball and was IMMEDIATELY hit. Hard. By two guys. One of them hitting him high specifically so that he couldn't push over the line. That LB had been burned earlier this year tackling someone low and they were able to move the ball over the line to score. He learned from that and didn't allow Hollister the chance. (I forget which analyst was talking about that, I think it was Ryan Clark.)

The LB made a great play, unfortunately. Blaming Hollister is ridiculous.

 

[scutterhawk]

I am not all doom and gloom, but a loss like that has the potential to linger into next week.

I think Pete and Russ might of just lost the team. There was no excuse for that delay of game.

I will be interested to see what team shows up next week.

Possibly. I just think Pete is old and stubborn and needs to go, there is plenty of evidence of this as well.

:waah:

 

[scutterhawk]

The truth of the matter is that replacing a coach rarely results in better outcomes.

But having a top QB is generally rare for a team too. And the NFL is built to allow teams with great QBs to succeed.

Old coaches do not get better, just gradually worse. We are at that point.

10% chance we find a good to great coach that can use Wilson right to turn us into a dangerous playoff contender.

90% chance we trade down. Likely that Wilson and the rest still pull out wins but the #s are reduced. However, there is a good chance we do better in the playoffs than under Pete (if we make them).

Regardless, you only get this spin at the wheel because you have Wilson. And you know, with certainty, what the future with Pete holds. After this year, you have to at least try because you won't get a chance like this often, if ever again.

To be honest, the regular season has been fun this year. But we all know what the playoffs will look like with Pete at the helm.

^ And there's a 100% chance that this post ^ is all bullsh*t :177692:

 

[Mase]

- What seems to get missed is the Fant effect on the delay of game. Remember how he was down, then had to hustle back to the one so they could spike the ball. You could see the team was muddling around expecting him to leave the field. But then he said he was good and stayed in. Therefore the refs had no reason to stop or reset the clock. There wouldn’t have been a 10 second run off because the spike stopped the clock. You can just tell it threw the timing off.

- As to Russell calling a play. We were at the one yard line. We still had the WR package in from the fourth down. We SHOULD have put the short yardage unit in, but if the RBs didn’t realize that, then that is a sideline communication error.

Insert “Marshawn didn’t think we would run the ball from the one yard line” joke here.

- This “lost the team” concept is one of the dumbest I‘ve heard and that says a lot on this board. Grow up. Grow a pair. Whatever you need to do. This team battled its ass off, and as far as I am concerned this weeks game is just a chance to get another crack at the Niners.

- So if you are on the ledge after last nights loss, you need to step back. Or even better, just jump, we won’t catch you and we won’t miss you.

Mase.

 

[Ozzy]

I respect your opinion and admire your spelling and grammar but football is Pete’s business. Fire him for getting a 6-10 team to believe they’re better than that.

Thanks, but it's absurd to believe that even the best coaches can't get caught up in defunct philosophies that may not fit the times very well, or just plain make mistakes. I in no way think I would be as good of an NFL coach as Pete Carroll. I know I wouldn't even come close.

That doesn't mean I'm incapable of pointing out a valid flaw, however.

The we win a lot of games crowd so you can't criticize Pete is nauseating. The delay of game is possibly the dumbest coaching mistake I've evern seen at the NFL level with the division on the line. It's like Pete thought the spike was a timeout. Schott deserves just as much blame as well. I got killed all year for questioning this issue and I said all along its going to cost them at some point and it did. It was always the process we were worried about even though the results were good, that was luck. If you're a middling coach and you make this mistake to lose the division and/or miss the playoffs you get fired for it. I'm not saying Pete should be fired but It is inexcusable.

 

[John63]

I am not all doom and gloom, but a loss like that has the potential to linger into next week.

I think Pete and Russ might of just lost the team. There was no excuse for that delay of game.

I will be interested to see what team shows up next week.

After this week I am scared the Eagles will win next week. We are all banged up and Lynch got less then 3 yards per carry. Hope there are no more stuff ups resulting in delayed plays. Angry

Lynch got exactly what most should expect he would get. Somewhere behind Rawls in ability to make yards. As it turns out, getting cute with Lynch at the 1 ended up likely costing us the game because he wasn't even ready to play ball. :roll:

Exactly the circus act outcome myself and others predicted before the game sadly enough.

That said, I don't think he loses the team. This is nothing new. He is a very sloppy coach at times and this is normal for him. Is what it is. Pete is no situational whiz when it comes to making big calls in big moments. He challenges ridiculous plays then misses game winners like the hold in the endzone on a game winner.

This happens because he is too emotional. The emotion also has upside keep in mind.

No he is not a situational wiz he relies on Wilson for that and off script plays, remember PC said he relies on 5-8 a game. No real offensive coach relies on off script plays.

 

[kidhawk]

I respect your opinion and admire your spelling and grammar but football is Pete’s business. Fire him for getting a 6-10 team to believe they’re better than that.

Thanks, but it's absurd to believe that even the best coaches can't get caught up in defunct philosophies that may not fit the times very well, or just plain make mistakes. I in no way think I would be as good of an NFL coach as Pete Carroll. I know I wouldn't even come close.

That doesn't mean I'm incapable of pointing out a valid flaw, however.

The we win a lot of games crowd so you can't criticize Pete is nauseating. The delay of game is possibly the dumbest coaching mistake I've evern seen at the NFL level with the division on the line. It's like Pete thought the spike was a timeout. Schott deserves just as much blame as well. I got killed all year for questioning this issue and I said all along its going to cost them at some point and it did. It was always the process we were worried about even though the results were good, that was luck. If you're a middling coach and you make this mistake to lose the division and/or miss the playoffs you get fired for it. I'm not saying Pete should be fired but It is inexcusable.

I don't think anyone (at least not many) are saying you can't criticize Pete. I think just about anyone would admit the coaching staff screwed the pooch there. No doubt about it, but that isn't the same as saying that Pete's winning with a team many thought were just rebuilding. He took a team of players many thought would be lucky to have a winning record and almost got them a number one seed and realistically came an inch from 12-4 and a division record. So, in essence, what I'm saying is criticize to your hearts content, just don't forget what he has done and continues to do to beat the odds week in and week out.

 

[Ozzy]

It is a weird situation. I wonder how much of Pete's success is tied to having an all time great QB who bails him out often? There is no way of knowing. I think its probably much more than many realize but I could be wrong. I will always love Pete his inability to see this weakness is strange. You could argue the SB against NE was because of the exact same thing. No timeouts and a failure to prepare for that type of situation, he's flirted with it this year multiple times too.

Overall I'll miss Pete when he's gone and he has led the best era we may ever see for Seahawks football. I'm still left wondering who should get most of the credit.

 

[kidhawk]

It is a weird situation. I wonder how much of Pete's success is tied to having an all time great QB who bails him out often? There is no way of knowing. I think its probably much more than many realize but I could be wrong. I will always love Pete his inability to see this weakness is strange. You could argue the SB against NE was because of the exact same thing. No timeouts and a failure to prepare for that type of situation, he's flirted with it this year multiple times too.

Overall I'll miss Pete when he's gone and he has led the best era we may ever see for Seahawks football. I'm still left wondering who should get most of the credit.

It's been a tremendous run. I think there's plenty of credit to go around to Lynch, Wilson, PC, JS etc. We've had a lot of great pieces and even when we have been rebuilding, Russ, Pete and John have kept this team rolling. They all have whiffed very publicly at varying times, bu it doesn't change what they have done and continue to do here overall.

 

[JPatera76]

- What seems to get missed is the Fant effect on the delay of game. Remember how he was down, then had to hustle back to the one so they could spike the ball. You could see the team was muddling around expecting him to leave the field. But then he said he was good and stayed in. Therefore the refs had no reason to stop or reset the clock. There wouldn’t have been a 10 second run off because the spike stopped the clock. You can just tell it threw the timing off.

- As to Russell calling a play. We were at the one yard line. We still had the WR package in from the fourth down. We SHOULD have put the short yardage unit in, but if the RBs didn’t realize that, then that is a sideline communication error.

Insert “Marshawn didn’t think we would run the ball from the one yard line” joke here.

- This “lost the team” concept is one of the dumbest I‘ve heard and that says a lot on this board. Grow up. Grow a pair. Whatever you need to do. This team battled its ass off, and as far as I am concerned this weeks game is just a chance to get another crack at the Niners.

- So if you are on the ledge after last nights loss, you need to step back. Or even better, just jump, we won’t catch you and we won’t miss you.

Mase.

That’s pretty assnine. And not even close to cool.

 

[olyfan63]

It is a weird situation. I wonder how much of Pete's success is tied to having an all time great QB who bails him out often? There is no way of knowing. I think its probably much more than many realize but I could be wrong. I will always love Pete his inability to see this weakness is strange. You could argue the SB against NE was because of the exact same thing. No timeouts and a failure to prepare for that type of situation, he's flirted with it this year multiple times too.

Overall I'll miss Pete when he's gone and he has led the best era we may ever see for Seahawks football. I'm still left wondering who should get most of the credit.

I made a similar argument in another thread, that this is just XLIX "the pick" 2.0, but with much lower consequences.
I'm hoping Pete gets enough inside-the-organization feedback on this issue to actually make changes this time. I'm generally on board with your comments about process vs. outcome (that's a nuance that many here fail to notice), and in this case, we have two situations where the same bad process results in two bad outcomes. I don't know that the analytics say, percentage-wise, but 1st and goal on the 1, should, let's say, result in an 80% TD rate for the drive. Similar situations in many ways, but 0-for-2 in big situations for Russell, Pete, and the Hawks. The other consideration... two different OCs, Bev in SB49, and Schotty here. So it's not an OC problem, it's a Pete and Russell problem.

The good news is, this time the team can come back from it. In SB49 there was just no coming back from that disaster. Let's hope Pete uses these playoffs to wake up and start competing, by working out and adopting a better process. Some people have mentioned John Harbaugh and his analytics guy in his ear with options on key plays. That's a process, and a better one than Pete's. But it doesn't have to be that. It could be as simple as Pete working out a protocol where Russell is encouraged take charge and do the playcall without sideline help in time-challenged critical situations. It could be a special miniature magic 8 ball that Russell wears on a chain around his neck with playcall recommendations. "The answer is YES". Oops. Wrong damn 8-ball, where's the freakin playcall one? But yeah, clearly the process there sucks.

Also, it seemed like Russell threw hastily on the 2nd and 3rd down plays, did not scramble, and the 49er D had a good coverage scheme both times, really, all 3 times, that had the quick options cut off.

Let's hope they spend some film study and reflection time on this and we see changes this postseason.

P.S. The question, how much of Pete's success is Pete, vs. Russell? Final Answer, based on scientific analysis from my seance with Yogi Berra:
Pete's success with the Hawks is 90% Pete and 50% Russell. The other half is Schneider.

 

[getnasty]

The truth of the matter is that replacing a coach rarely results in better outcomes.

But having a top QB is generally rare for a team too. And the NFL is built to allow teams with great QBs to succeed.

Old coaches do not get better, just gradually worse. We are at that point.

10% chance we find a good to great coach that can use Wilson right to turn us into a dangerous playoff contender.

90% chance we trade down. Likely that Wilson and the rest still pull out wins but the #s are reduced. However, there is a good chance we do better in the playoffs than under Pete (if we make them).

Regardless, you only get this spin at the wheel because you have Wilson. And you know, with certainty, what the future with Pete holds. After this year, you have to at least try because you won't get a chance like this often, if ever again.

To be honest, the regular season has been fun this year. But we all know what the playoffs will look like with Pete at the helm.

Twisted,

You say old coaches don't get better? At what age is that?

 

[olyfan63]

Looks like we've reached the moral victory stage of the season.

1. Cautious optimism
2. We're gonna win the Superbowl
3. Anger, once the team lays an egg
5. Resignation
6. Moral Victory
7. Just go ahead and start the offseason already

Love it! Is this based on the Kubler-Ross 6 stages of grief thing?
I recall a similar one for IT projects...

 

[olyfan63]

After this week I am scared the Eagles will win next week. We are all banged up and Lynch got less then 3 yards per carry. Hope there are no more stuff ups resulting in delayed plays. Angry

Lynch got exactly what most should expect he would get. Somewhere behind Rawls in ability to make yards. As it turns out, getting cute with Lynch at the 1 ended up likely costing us the game because he wasn't even ready to play ball. :roll:

Exactly the circus act outcome myself and others predicted before the game sadly enough.
-snip-
This happens because he is too emotional. The emotion also has upside keep in mind.

Nice to hear someone acknowledge that Pete's screwups are often the flipside of the coin of his greatness.
The irony is it will be that same emotion that causes Pete to make the needed changes, if they in fact happen.

 

[olyfan63]

I won’t even give my thoughts on Hollister not trying a little harder to score. He made a “business decision”.

What business decision did he make?!? He caught the ball and was IMMEDIATELY hit. Hard. By two guys. One of them hitting him high specifically so that he couldn't push over the line. That LB had been burned earlier this year tackling someone low and they were able to move the ball over the line to score. He learned from that and didn't allow Hollister the chance. (I forget which analyst was talking about that, I think it was Ryan Clark.)

The LB made a great play, unfortunately. Blaming Hollister is ridiculous.

Sure, Hollister made a business decision to catch the ball and get whacked HARD trying to score, by a bigger LB who had his body fully squared up for the hit. The business decision Hollister made was to sacrifice his body for the team, go ALL-IN and do everything in his power to help the team win.

This team is blessed to have a guy like Jacob Hollister. Thank you, Patriots!

P.S. I was hoping to see something out of Swoopes, but all I saw was him getting rag-dolled by a 49er DL (Bosa?) on one play they showed for replay.

 

[xray]

The players did the very best they could with what they had . Wilson took over the game and could of won it with allitle help from the sidelines staff. The sports news articles all over are embarrassing for the Hawks coaching staff . They use the term " again " in reference to this latest Carroll gaff. I have empathy for the players that tried their best and had the #1 snatched away . I hope they can recover on the way to Philly.

 

[scutterhawk]

- What seems to get missed is the Fant effect on the delay of game. Remember how he was down, then had to hustle back to the one so they could spike the ball. You could see the team was muddling around expecting him to leave the field. But then he said he was good and stayed in. Therefore the refs had no reason to stop or reset the clock. There wouldn’t have been a 10 second run off because the spike stopped the clock. You can just tell it threw the timing off.

- As to Russell calling a play. We were at the one yard line. We still had the WR package in from the fourth down. We SHOULD have put the short yardage unit in, but if the RBs didn’t realize that, then that is a sideline communication error.

Insert “Marshawn didn’t think we would run the ball from the one yard line” joke here.

- This “lost the team” concept is one of the dumbest I‘ve heard and that says a lot on this board. Grow up. Grow a pair. Whatever you need to do. This team battled its ass off, and as far as I am concerned this weeks game is just a chance to get another crack at the Niners.

- So if you are on the ledge after last nights loss, you need to step back. Or even better, just jump, we won’t catch you and we won’t miss you.

Mase.

Couldn't have said it any better "Mase", it's getting tiresome hearing all this crybaby shit. :17:
One would think that some of these guys work for the 'Snivel Service' in the Debbie Downer Department.

 

[scutterhawk]

It is a weird situation. I wonder how much of Pete's success is tied to having an all time great QB who bails him out often? There is no way of knowing. I think its probably much more than many realize but I could be wrong. I will always love Pete his inability to see this weakness is strange. You could argue the SB against NE was because of the exact same thing. No timeouts and a failure to prepare for that type of situation, he's flirted with it this year multiple times too.

Overall I'll miss Pete when he's gone and he has led the best era we may ever see for Seahawks football. I'm still left wondering who should get most of the credit.

The Head Coach that put all the pieces together--The winningest Coach the Seahawks have ever had--The one that got us a SUPER BOWL VICTORY & a Lombardi for us Seahawks Fans, & Paul Allen before he died.
PETE DID THAT.
Oh and...….NO, Pete Didn't "LOSE THE TEAM", and it's ABSURD to even suggest that he did.

 

[jeremiah]

Maybe, just maybe, they will stop running the effing clock down when they don't have a lead.

We were down almost 2 TDs in the 3rd and we were snapping the ball with 1 sec on the clock. Which also allowed the opposing pass rushers to tee off because they knew we had to snap it that second. Sometimes they would get a running start.

Amazingly, if we hadn't run the clock down so much - we might have had time to score at the end.

I keep hoping for Wilson to have had enough of it and demand his own OC or he holds out. Someone to demand Pete stop playing ball like Ty Willingham for half a game. But Wilson isn't that kind of guy, he will probably never buck Pete or call him out in public. I used to hate that about him but now I have accepted it.

Pete will get you lots of regular-season wins, but he will also get you plenty of postseason disappointments because you mistakenly assume that kind of play will work in the postseason.

Having Pete have the team shove it back in his face is exactly what we need right now. Pete has enough yes men.

Hear here, they need someone OVER PC who reads him the riot act over these sorts of mistakes. Like holding calls, jumping offsides et al. How about up tempo in the first half?
Pete needs someone over him that he would accept criticism from. I don't think there is anyone in the Org that can do that.