Bruce Irvin suspended

[pinksheets]

Did you know that water is only one oxygen molecule away from being hydrogen peroxide? Never drinking that stuff again.

 

[TwilightError]

We certainly have had our share of these..

 

[TwistedHusky]

The question to ask is whether you believe that in taking the "Adderall", or whatever PED it might be, the Seahawks got better.

If you believe that to be true, then you have to ask if the improvement is worth the 1-4 games it might potentially cost us.

It isn't even a given that if the suspension costs us games that it might not be worth it.

The point of being better is to get a better record, but the point of a better record is to have advantages in the playoffs. If the improvement outweighs the loss of advantages, it still becomes worth it.

In the end, what will matter is not the 4 games, but whether or not Irvin actually ends up being a better player in the playoffs because of it. If so, then it is absolutely worth it. If not, well then it was a poor choice.

No matter how you stack it, the end result is how this will be measured.

Frankly, with Clemons out, Irvin was getting nowhere. So we lost some depth, and in that we lost some of our advantage over the 49ers (they have a great group of starters but have little depth). That was our advantage, but it wasn't like Irvin was the difference maker that Clemons was. He had a few good games and a few bad. If whatever he was doing makes him have more good games and less bad, then it probably ends up worth it.

The funny thing is the handwringing.

The Seahawks are putting together a nice brand as the new "Bad Boys of Football", kind of like the old Raiders (though the Raiders got their SBs). We are known as a team that plays hard, borderline dirty, and mean. The perceived cheating fits nicely with the rest of what the Seahawks persona seems to be. I have no problem embracing it.

Finally, go look at the teams in college and the pros that win consistently. One thing tends to be a constant and that is a continual series of allegations of rule breaking, bending and circumventing. Almost every great team cheats, because cheating works and frankly the penalties NEVER outweigh the benefits. From the Patriots to the Ducks to the Crimson Tide, to the Dallas Cowboys.....they all were trailed with that.

Nobody really cares about whether Jordan pushed off against Russell (save some Jazz fans) they only care that he made the shot. And he was still venerated for it.

I am not saying that the Seahawks are cheating, just that I could care less if they were.

 

[TwilightError]

Why would he take speed when he clearly had an agenda of beefing up in the offseason so he could play better against the run? He likely took something that helps muscles grow. Not that it matters penaltywise.

We can survive 4 games without him, but since Clem is likely out, once again we are thin on this position.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

I could give a rat's ass about guys smokin weed or even HGH...but Adderall is a bit different. It's a frickin amphetamine. Its one carbon and two hydrogens from being METH. We think it must not be too bad if they're prescribing it to 10-yr olds. Which they are.

A cloud is 100% water. A watermelon is 99% water. But there's more than a 1% difference between a cloud and a watermelon.

I think that one carbon and two hydrogen atoms difference in the structure between meth and adderall (assuming that's accurate) is a lot more significant than you seem to think it is.

If you would like to research it for yourself, the drug is called

Dextro amphetamine

It isn't meth, nor did I say it was. But I've researched it recently because my son struggles in his class and he has been tested for ADHD. He will not be taking Adderall. He's 7. There are kids his age that do take it. Daily.

Psychological effects can include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, increased energy, increased self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggressiveness, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, dermatillomania, delusions of grandiosity, hallucinations, excessive feelings of power and invincibility, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and with chronic and/or high doses, amphetamine psychosis can occur; occasionally this psychosis can occur at therapeutic doses during chronic therapy as a treatment emergent side effect.[3][22]

Psychological effects can include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, increased energy, increased self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggressiveness, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, dermatillomania (compulsive skin picking), hair pulling, delusions of grandiosity, hallucinations, excessive feelings of power and invincibility, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and – with chronic use and/or high doses – amphetamine psychosis.[18][24]

One of the above paragraphs describes Adderall's psychological effects, the other describes Meth's. Not much difference.

We view meth as a completely different drug- and it is different. It's like crack to Adderall's cocaine. The drug is essentially the same...the slight difference in chemistry only slightly changes a small part of the physical effects and the toxicity- but Adderall is absolutely an amphetamine- and a powerful stimulant. Why do you think they would give a powerful stimulant to ADHD kids? Doesn't make much sense does it. Come to find out that, in small doses, it is so potent that the brain tries to combat the effects of the stimulant by releasing sedative endorphins- it's actually causing both sedative and stimulant chemicals to be released by the brain.

Check it out sometime.

 

[Bakergirl]

He's not the first kid to do something stupid, but at least he's owning up to it and knows he screwed up. I respect him more for nutting up and admitting he did it. Hopefully this is a learning experience for him and the last time we see his name attached to a negative headline. It's alright Bruce we still love ya, you made a dumb ass choice, but we still love ya. What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Between the cloud and watermelon water percentages and the listed effects of both meth and Adderall, this is some really good, clever banter, guys. Informative too!

 

[Mick063]

With Clemons down, in the biggest game of his life, while no longer a rookie with a full season under his belt, he didn't come through against Atlanta when he was needed most.

Strike one.

Four game suspension for a "lesson learned" that he witnessed first hand from his team mates.

Strike two.

 

[Lynch Mob]

I'am assuming that bruce Irvin was popped probably around the same time as the others becuase a few media sources say the seahawks knew for a few weeks even before free agency so they are well prepared for him missing games. I think Bennett and Avril will be more than able to pick up the slack for our two DE's the problem is finding nickel DT's. But i'am still a Bruce Irvin fan and believe he will come back and make an impact on the season.

 

[Dismas]

I'm late to the thread, so forgive me if this has been said already, I didn't want to read 16 pages of people screaming dummt and bust.

He took a banned substance, it's done, and nothing to be done about it.

Bruce made a mistake, and now, I think, he is using it as an excuse to grow up.

He did the first thing absolutely right, he owned it. He isn't blaming someone else, or screaming for a loophole . . . he did it, he owned it.

I am guessing that he has been doing a lot of soul searching lately, seeing that he has a very real chance of steamrolling bad decisions, and ending up right where he was 4 years ago. Judging by his statement, that is not where he plans to end up.

He cut his hair . . . to me, this is a huge sign of growing up. Becoming less concerned with looking cool, and more concerned with gewtting his shit together.

I think this may ed up being just what he needed. I am looking forward to game 5 this year, when he gets back on the field with redemption burning in his veins!


Most of this growing up stuff is translated from my personal exerience I had to find myself in a position where my choices were to change everything about my life, or to continue as I was and get used to spending significant portions of my life in confinement. I chose to grow up.

I am hoping Bruce chose to grow up. It took me til I was 35 to become a man, maybe he can do it before he hits 25, and if so, good for him.

Stay stromg Bruce. We all make mistakes . . . it is how you respond to them that will be your legacy.

 

[gargantual]

I want to believe that Pete has had nothing to do with any of this, but obviously he didn't run an honest shop at SC...so why would or should I give him the benefit of the doubt here? If RW hadn't made him look like a genius last year and we finish 8-8 in that campaign, I'm thinking more folks would be questioning him right now.

Damn. Just...damn.

(sigh) I keep hoping that one of these days people will get the facts straight about what happened with Reggie Bush and people keep dashing those hopes into dust.

Yeah. Getting a bit sick of hearing this BS.

And 8-8.....really? So Pete gets no credit for Russell Wilson at all? Not for deciding to draft him (jointly with JS of course), or putting him into the 3-way competition, or picking him to be the starter?

Every bed-wetter in this place was crying endlessly about how the reps taken away from Flynn would kill our season, not to mention the whole too short.....wasted 3rd rounder.....the list is just about endless. You can't have it both ways. Either Pete built this team....and therefore gets credit for all it's success.......or not. Which one is it going to be?

 

[Bakergirl]

I'm late to the thread, so forgive me if this has been said already, I didn't want to read 16 pages of people screaming dummt and bust.

He took a banned substance, it's done, and nothing to be done about it.

Bruce made a mistake, and now, I think, he is using it as an excuse to grow up.

He did the first thing absolutely right, he owned it. He isn't blaming someone else, or screaming for a loophole . . . he did it, he owned it.

I am guessing that he has been doing a lot of soul searching lately, seeing that he has a very real chance of steamrolling bad decisions, and ending up right where he was 4 years ago. Judging by his statement, that is not where he plans to end up.

He cut his hair . . . to me, this is a huge sign of growing up. Becoming less concerned with looking cool, and more concerned with gewtting his shit together.

I think this may ed up being just what he needed. I am looking forward to game 5 this year, when he gets back on the field with redemption burning in his veins!


Most of this growing up stuff is translated from my personal exerience I had to find myself in a position where my choices were to change everything about my life, or to continue as I was and get used to spending significant portions of my life in confinement. I chose to grow up.

I am hoping Bruce chose to grow up. It took me til I was 35 to become a man, maybe he can do it before he hits 25, and if so, good for him.

Stay stromg Bruce. We all make mistakes . . . it is how you respond to them that will be your legacy.

I wish we had a like button. :th2thumbs:

 

[gargantual]

I'm late to the thread, so forgive me if this has been said already, I didn't want to read 16 pages of people screaming dummt and bust.

He took a banned substance, it's done, and nothing to be done about it.

Bruce made a mistake, and now, I think, he is using it as an excuse to grow up.

He did the first thing absolutely right, he owned it. He isn't blaming someone else, or screaming for a loophole . . . he did it, he owned it.

I am guessing that he has been doing a lot of soul searching lately, seeing that he has a very real chance of steamrolling bad decisions, and ending up right where he was 4 years ago. Judging by his statement, that is not where he plans to end up.

He cut his hair . . . to me, this is a huge sign of growing up. Becoming less concerned with looking cool, and more concerned with gewtting his shit together.

I think this may ed up being just what he needed. I am looking forward to game 5 this year, when he gets back on the field with redemption burning in his veins!


Most of this growing up stuff is translated from my personal exerience I had to find myself in a position where my choices were to change everything about my life, or to continue as I was and get used to spending significant portions of my life in confinement. I chose to grow up.

I am hoping Bruce chose to grow up. It took me til I was 35 to become a man, maybe he can do it before he hits 25, and if so, good for him.

Stay stromg Bruce. We all make mistakes . . . it is how you respond to them that will be your legacy.

I wish we had a like button. :th2thumbs:

Like

Yeah, I know prior history is a factor, and important in trying to gauge the direction a person is going in their life (vital in calculating the risks-to-reward ratio when drafting red-flagged players), but I tend to try giving them a clean slate once they've become a Seahawk. For me that's when the clock starts ticking and therefore he's got one mistake on his ledger. I think a glass-half-full perspective is the way to go at this point. Just like Richard Sherman rising above his difficult beginnings in Compton, Irvin should get credit for all that he has overcome and achieved at this point. Beating the odds, getting off the streets, into (and successfully completing) college, getting drafted in the first round and having a pretty darned successful rookie season at the highest level attained in his sport....a starter in the NFL.

Until he screws up in some other way, in my book his list of successes very much outweigh this one mistake he's made playing for Seattle.

 

[Hawkspur]

Embarrassing. This had better be the end of this nonsense.

 

[kearly]

Fascinating. Say more...

lol.

 

[kearly]

Personally i'm not going to kill him for it. in fact, I really couldn't care less. Just hope he's ready to kick ass when he comes back.

I'm with you and I wish more fans would just relax. This isn't a big deal for the team or for Irvin. Now, if he gets suspended again in the future and sees a much bigger suspension, then I start to worry. But that seems unlikely. Everything's going to be alright, folks.

Losing your best pass rusher for a 1/4 of the season is not a big deal? After all Irvin has seen from this type of thing last year and he still took the stuff proves the man is incredibly stupid. Which indicates he does not learn from his mistakes. You have to be worried that he'll do it again if he still thought he could get away with it this time. I'm a fan of his but damn it I hate selfish dumbass players.

And no it was not a mistake he knew what he was doing. I do care what players do off the field if it jeopardizes them being on the field.

Irvin's not our best pass rusher. He's a decent pass rusher and a purely situational player who's sack production can be manufactured from other areas of the team. Seattle was basically going to use Irvin like a blitz specialist this year, almost like a LB, so that's pretty easy to manufacture with other players we have on our roster.

 

[kearly]

Personally i'm not going to kill him for it. in fact, I really couldn't care less. Just hope he's ready to kick ass when he comes back.

I'm with you and I wish more fans would just relax. This isn't a big deal for the team or for Irvin. Now, if he gets suspended again in the future and sees a much bigger suspension, then I start to worry. But that seems unlikely. Everything's going to be alright, folks.

Rarely does one incident like this really affect the team, agreed. I like Irvin- a lot- and still do. There isn't a Hawk on this team I have a specific problem with- I'm not tryin to kill anyone with words here.

I've got 3 kids I have to explain this stuff to- and that doesn't bother me either. I'll have to explain more about MY PAST than about everyone else combined...however Adderall leads a pretty twisted existence. It's prescription amphetamine...it isn't meth, but it can have similar effects, both long term and short term. I could give a rat's ass about guys smokin weed or even HGH...but Adderall is a bit different. It's a frickin amphetamine. Its one carbon and two hydrogens from being METH. We think it must not be too bad if they're prescribing it to 10-yr olds. Which they are. It really doesn't bother you that half our team (more?) might be on this crap and getting suspended for it?

What isn't a big deal Kearly? The fact that we've had several guys get caught using Adderall...that we've lost key players for key games due to suspensions...that this seems to be more systemic than isolated...that it is happening under Pete's watch...that it's a prescription drug...that its a first time offense...that it's the first 4 games...that its just Bruce Irvin...what? What isn't a big deal? We' be calling for heads right now if these guys were 8-8 last year again. But maybe we're Superbowl bound so "everything's going to he alright, folks."

Why does it seem unlikely that Bruce Irvin won't get caught again? Do you know him?

Never said it was unlikely. I said if it happens again then you get worried.

Adderall is on the banned substance list because if they didn't ban it everyone would take it, and it can cause dependencies and some unpleasant side-effects but it's nothing like Meth in terms of the impact on the body. Like you said yourself, doctors hand this stuff out to 10 year old kids.

Do you think Pete knows every single thing his players do? That's crazy. If he knew they were taking a ban substance you think he'd endorse it? That's not protecting the team. Not even close. So I can't see why he would. Whatever the Seahawks gained from adderall use they've already lost with interest from the suspensions, and it was inevitable that the positive tests would start rolling in with all the random testing.

My guess is that someone started using and recommending Adderall to his teammates without knowing it was on the list, but I don't know, that's a guess. If I take Adderall at my job nobody is going to know or care. The only part about this that bothers me is that these players have displayed (at minimum) ignorance of the rules or (at worst) disrespect for the rules. But as far as I'm concerned, this is just a rule violation, like the NFL equivalent of a parking ticket. It's nothing sinister and nothing worth getting up in arms about.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

It's not about losing Irvin though, is it? It's about the pure fact that we're pretty much already waiting to find out who the next guy is who gets caught. Five players in two years. FIVE. There's a problem within the locker room and it needs sorting NOW.

 

[kearly]

Doesn't it stay in the bloodstream for a while? Could have been that all these PED events occurred a while ago and the positive test results are trickling in just recently. Seems to me like the damage is done, we just have to see how much more there is. Obviously, these guys aren't going to double down on Adderall tomorrow after seeing all these suspensions.

 

[bigtrain21]

We' be calling for heads right now if these guys were 8-8 last year again.

Speak for yourself. I said before last year that record didn't matter to me. We had one of the youngest teams in the league and everyone could see the talent Pete & John accumulating on the roster. For me it wasn't about record at all. 11-5 and a couple of playoff games were a bonus. This year I have much higher expectations but in no way would I have wanted Pete or John gone after year 3 regardless of the record he had last year.

I feel like most Seahawks fans were happy with the direction the team was going before last year and are absolutely thrilled now. Everyone could see that the 2010 7-9 team that went to the playoffs was not as good as the 2011 7-9 team that missed the playoffs. We got better in 2011 and our record didn't reflect it and that is evidenced by a -97 point differential in 2010 and a +6 point differential in 2011.

I know I snipped your long post but I think that is unfair to say that we would be calling for their heads. We still have a really young team.