Bring on the high draft picks and defensive roster overhaul

[TwistedHusky]

The issue isn't having a bad DL. It looks like it is in the lower quarter of teams out there. But it doesn't look like the worst of all time. I could probably pick at least 5 teams which the quality of the DL in terms of roster (not results) is a wash. Maybe 6.
But now, have you ever seen a team that was so brutally bad at stopping the run? Ever? Because what happened in the Panthers game is something you never see. A team running the ball, up the gut, on a team that KNOWS they are running. And consistently getting 7 yards a carry or ripping off big runs.
That should not happen. In all the years of football watching ANY team, have you ever seen a team that was so ridiculously futile against the run or gave up long runs so regularly - even in situations where the defense knows the offense is clearly running?
(Not just the Hawks, any team)

Based on the results we are getting the DL should be abysmal, almost historically bad in terms of roster. But it isn't. The roster is below average. Not putrid though, just not good.
Even worse, the poor results against the run are not the result of focusing on the pass rush - and giving up runs. Because our pass rush is horrible too.

In terms of roster, our results should NOT be this bad. We are inept against the run, to the point where when we get a 3 yard stop I am genuinely surprised. At some point, you have to blame the guy pulling the levers here. This roster shouldn't be world beating but it should be getting stops for 3-4 yds like damned near ever other team in the league. 4 yards a carry is actually good for a RB. 7 is ridiculous.


(There is some irony here. We got rid of a lot of pass rushers to focus more on the run defense. Our pass rush threats vanished but somehow our rush defense got worse. MUCH worse.

 

[Okieseahawk]

Long time lurker first time poster. I just couldn't resist chiming in after Yesterday.

I've been a Hawks fan since 1976 when Largent arrived. I watched him as a Senior catching passes from Jeb Blount at TU. Steve August was an OT on that team as well.
Privy to many years of ups and downs-lots of heroes and downright duds.

IMHO The Hawks need a Young Thumper at MLB. Jordyn Brooks seems to be a decent player but reminds me of Leroy Hill-better suited for the outside. Nwosu looks like a keeper.

Lots of holes, but an enforcer at the Mike or another within the DL is sadly missing in this Defensive group.

Good news that we have the draft capital to make a difference-if used prudently as the last draft.

 

[Appyhawk]

Do teams even practice tackling anymore?

Serious question.

I saw almost nothing besides 'shoulder bump' technique Saturday. Maybe wrapping them up is causing too many injuries? I know it wasn't taught that way back in my day. It was all about wrap em up or sit on the bench and watch someone that can.

 

[BASF]

Long time lurker first time poster. I just couldn't resist chiming in after Yesterday.

I've been a Hawks fan since 1976 when Largent arrived. I watched him as a Senior catching passes from Jeb Blount at TU. Steve August was an OT on that team as well.
Privy to many years of ups and downs-lots of heroes and downright duds.

IMHO The Hawks need a Young Thumper at MLB. Jordyn Brooks seems to be a decent player but reminds me of Leroy Hill-better suited for the outside. Nwosu looks like a keeper.

Lots of holes, but an enforcer at the Mike or another within the DL is sadly missing in this Defensive group.

Good news that we have the draft capital to make a difference-if used prudently as the last draft.

Welcome to the board. Good first post.

 

[BASF]

Do teams even practice tackling anymore?

Serious question.

The player's association has hurt the game with their little contact practices. Helps the offenses, which of course brings in viewers.

 

[Hockey Guy]

The player's association has hurt the game with their little contact practices. Helps the offenses, which of course brings in viewers.

This is kinda what I'm wondering.
Is this, tackling practice, against the rules in the CBA?
We went from the best tackling team in the league by a long way to the most abysmal, which might just seem that way compared to the LOB days because other teams seem to have this same problem, but I'm not sure why. Did PC forget how to teach tackling or is it because less tackling in practice is mandated by the CBA?
It's gotta be something.

 

[hox]

This is kinda what I'm wondering.
Is this, tackling practice, against the rules in the CBA?
We went from the best tackling team in the league by a long way to the most abysmal, which might just seem that way compared to the LOB days because other teams seem to have this same problem, but I'm not sure why. Did PC forget how to teach tackling or is it because less tackling in practice is mandated by the CBA?
It's gotta be something.

It's probably a combination of a few things.

Less contact drills in camp (though other teams don't seem to have this problem)
Coaching staff that isn't doing a good job teaching/emphasizing tackling fundamentals.
Players playing slow / bad angles / being out of position.
Talent level. We never had to worry about tackling with Kam, KJ or Bobby.

 

[Fade]

How can the Packers, Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Cowboys, can pay their QB, AND not have total dogsh defenses for YEARS like the Seahawks?

What is their secret?

 

[Ozzy]

How can the Packers, Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Cowboys, can pay their QB, AND not have total dogsh defenses for YEARS like the Seahawks?

What is their secret?

Yeah sometimes the excuses we give Pete even after a lot of resources have been poured into the defense is odd. He can be a great coach AND not do a good job with the defense going on 6 years now.

 

[charcoalbg]

It's probably a combination of a few things.

Less contact drills in camp (though other teams don't seem to have this problem)
Coaching staff that isn't doing a good job teaching/emphasizing tackling fundamentals.
Players playing slow / bad angles / being out of position.
Talent level. We never had to worry about tackling with Kam, KJ or Bobby.

I think tackling gone downhill once Rocky Seto left the organization. He was the defense quality coach that oversees the tackling I believe?

 

[renofox]

How can the Packers, Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Cowboys, can pay their QB, AND not have total dogsh defenses for YEARS like the Seahawks?

What is their secret?

Different Head Coach.

 

[Chuckwow]

It's probably a combination of a few things.

Less contact drills in camp (though other teams don't seem to have this problem)
Coaching staff that isn't doing a good job teaching/emphasizing tackling fundamentals.
Players playing slow / bad angles / being out of position.
Talent level. We never had to worry about tackling with Kam, KJ or Bobby.

Great post. And I'd add to your list :

Many players appear to have dilutions of grandeur. I'm not busting on just Wilson (etc etc) but it seems many NFL players today are like naked emperors. They are living off reputation and in some cases, basically just mailing it in. Look at Aaron Donald this past season. Just wow.

This phenomenon, IMO, is really diluting the product. Many teams looked way less than average this year so apparently average is the new good. And even still, a guy has to be borderline wealthy to take his family to an NFL football game. No player should make more than $20 mil per. This smoke screen of "they're entertainers" only works if and when they're extremely entertaining. I personally find today's level of play less entertaining than ever. YMMV.

 

[jlwaters1]

Did you see the play where he literally blasted Woolen away from a solid tackle? Barton’s got to get off the roster. Terrible LB and Brooks ain’t much better, just a garbage non TFL LB.

It’s kinda hard to make TFL’s when the DL is getting washed away by the OL. Brookes is a lot better than he’s getting credit. Bobby would hardly do better behind this DL that’s constantly allowing linemen to the 2nd level

 

[Grahamhawker]

How can the Packers, Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Cowboys, can pay their QB, AND not have total dogsh defenses for YEARS like the Seahawks?

What is their secret?

Obviously all about the draft position.

 

[BASF]

It’s kinda hard to make TFL’s when the DL is getting washed away by the OL. Brookes is a lot better than he’s getting credit. Bobby would hardly do better behind this DL that’s constantly allowing linemen to the 2nd level

Several people have pointed out that Bobby played better this season for the Rams than he has here. How could he not? He had much better talent in front of him taking up blockers.

 

[hox]

I think tackling gone downhill once Rocky Seto left the organization. He was the defense quality coach that oversees the tackling I believe?

Yea not sure about that. Will Tukuafu is the current "quality control" coach though.

 

[Sun Tzu]

The issue isn't having a bad DL. It looks like it is in the lower quarter of teams out there. But it doesn't look like the worst of all time. I could probably pick at least 5 teams which the quality of the DL in terms of roster (not results) is a wash. Maybe 6.
But now, have you ever seen a team that was so brutally bad at stopping the run? Ever? Because what happened in the Panthers game is something you never see. A team running the ball, up the gut, on a team that KNOWS they are running. And consistently getting 7 yards a carry or ripping off big runs.
That should not happen. In all the years of football watching ANY team, have you ever seen a team that was so ridiculously futile against the run or gave up long runs so regularly - even in situations where the defense knows the offense is clearly running?
(Not just the Hawks, any team)

Based on the results we are getting the DL should be abysmal, almost historically bad in terms of roster. But it isn't. The roster is below average. Not putrid though, just not good.
Even worse, the poor results against the run are not the result of focusing on the pass rush - and giving up runs. Because our pass rush is horrible too.

In terms of roster, our results should NOT be this bad. We are inept against the run, to the point where when we get a 3 yard stop I am genuinely surprised. At some point, you have to blame the guy pulling the levers here. This roster shouldn't be world beating but it should be getting stops for 3-4 yds like damned near ever other team in the league. 4 yards a carry is actually good for a RB. 7 is ridiculous.


(There is some irony here. We got rid of a lot of pass rushers to focus more on the run defense. Our pass rush threats vanished but somehow our rush defense got worse. MUCH worse.

You say the issue isn't having a bad DL, and then proceed to give, what I believe to be, compelling evidence that the problem is in fact a historically bad DL.

We (fans in general) tend to overvalue our team's players. Your contention that the lack of DL talent is not the biggest issue in stopping the run is a prime example of fan bias. If you look at each player on the DL individually, none of them are horrible. The current DL is a collection of solid but unspectacular rotation guys. The problem is that there is not a single individual player on the DL who is an impact player; the type of player that offenses need to account for. Add one pro bowl/all-pro/elite DL or edge guy, and our solid but unspectacular rotation guys look a whole lot better.

 

[onanygivensunday]

How can the Packers, Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Rams, Cowboys, can pay their QB, AND not have total dogsh defenses for YEARS like the Seahawks?

What is their secret?

They're not using $36.2M of their cap space on two safeties like the Hawks are.

(one of which is perennially injured)

 

[Grahamhawker]

They're not using $36.2M of their cap space on two safeties like the Hawks are.

(one of which is perennially injured)

Two?


edit: Doh! Gotta read the fine print!

 

[onanygivensunday]

Two?


edit: Doh! Gotta read the fine print!

To be clear, $36.2M is the combined 2023 cap total for Diggs and Adams ($18.1M each).