Bevell Haters Unite!

[pehawk]

Percy definitely contributed to dysfunction.

I'm not saying I'd want Fisch here. It wouldn't work. I just like the dudes passing attacks. Loved Bates' as well.

I can totally understand how if you like Bates (more of a downfield WCO) and Fisch you wouldn't like what the Seahawks are doing. Its about as far from them as you can get. They are about rhythm passing and long drives. OUr offense is all tough running and big plays.

Where is Jeremy Bates now? Since leaving Denver he lasted one season in Seattle as OC and one season in Chicago as QB coach. Is he coaching presently?

I actually like what the Seahawks are doing offensively. I love the tone and general philosophy.

But, every year, there's 4 or 6 games where I'm both confused and enraged over the play-calling and formations. There's also a learning period for Bevell's offenses. It takes a long time for his offenses to figure out their identity and what their strong suits are. When strengths are identified, they seem to be built off Wilson's elite legs and Cable's rushing attacks more than anything else.

I've never felt that way about an OC before. Closest comparison would be John Marshall's DC stint here, I think.

Generally, I think he's a good OC. But man does it take a long time for him to warm up. He's like a 78 Buick that way.

 

[McGruff]

First of all the metaphor for untie your shoes (bending over) is completely perverse and immature. I know people use if commonly, but it's really quite disturbing at a root level.

My apologies. I had no idea of this connotation. I was merely being cute and not very funny.

 

[volsunghawk]

First of all the metaphor for untie your shoes (bending over) is completely perverse and immature. I know people use if commonly, but it's really quite disturbing at a root level.

My apologies. I had no idea of this connotation. I was merely being cute and not very funny.

I thought it was a reference to the "Dyslexics Untie!" joke. I've never heard it used the way luker is suggesting. Weird. Maybe it's regional.

 

[Sarlacc83]

First of all the metaphor for untie your shoes (bending over) is completely perverse and immature. I know people use if commonly, but it's really quite disturbing at a root level.

My apologies. I had no idea of this connotation. I was merely being cute and not very funny.

If it makes you feel better, I thought it was an allusion to the bad spellers joke.

 

[drdiags]

Edit: This isn't the original article I mentioned (which dealt with the NFL) but I think it explains what I meant : http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... s-diagrams

Like the play they hit Lockette with in the Green Bay game. Saw Prisco and a few other nationals scoff at the play which made no sense to me. Sort of an elitist, old-school bias. It was a good concept. I think I saw them try a similar play later in the season, but the defense was looking for it.

 

[themunn]

First of all the metaphor for untie your shoes (bending over) is completely perverse and immature. I know people use if commonly, but it's really quite disturbing at a root level.

My apologies. I had no idea of this connotation. I was merely being cute and not very funny.

I think he's made it up

 

[pehawk]

Edit: This isn't the original article I mentioned (which dealt with the NFL) but I think it explains what I meant : http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... s-diagrams

Like the play they hit Lockette with in the Green Bay game. Saw Prisco and a few other nationals scoff at the play which made no sense to me. Sort of an elitist, old-school bias. It was a good concept. I think I saw them try a similar play later in the season, but the defense was looking for it.

And Wilson flat missed on one in Carolina. Pretty boy Cooper was WIDE open.

Prisco screams curmudgeon. He feels the same way about Russell Wilson as the WW2 generation felt about Paul, George and John.

 

[themunn]

So, the offense is improvisational under Bevell? You think credit for players improvising should be evenly distributed amongst the play-caller and the players themselves? Huh?

In part, yes. Do you think that when Sidney Rice and Golden Tate always got into the right spot at the right time when a passing play broke down was sheer luck? Do you think that when Doug Baldwin moves to the sideline when Russ decides to bail on the pocket is purely what he thinks is best and that all of the receivers are running around like headless chickens trying to find the best spot to help Wilson out?

OR

Do you think it's more likely that they've been coached to either turn upfield, to the sidelines, start blocking or whatever to try and extend the play and gain yards. I can just imagine it in the gameplan "right guys, I'm not that great a coordinator, so if the play breaks down and Russell leaves the pocket, what I want you to do is just help him out man, OK? Improvise! It's what you do best".

 

[drdiags]

Edit: This isn't the original article I mentioned (which dealt with the NFL) but I think it explains what I meant : http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... s-diagrams

Like the play they hit Lockette with in the Green Bay game. Saw Prisco and a few other nationals scoff at the play which made no sense to me. Sort of an elitist, old-school bias. It was a good concept. I think I saw them try a similar play later in the season, but the defense was looking for it.

And Wilson flat missed on one in Carolina. Pretty boy Cooper was WIDE open.

Prisco screams curmudgeon. He feels the same way about Russell Wilson as the WW2 generation felt about Paul, George and John.

Yeah, I had forgotten about that play. Wilson probably couldn't believe how wide open Helfert was plus Wilson was having a tough day that day.

 

[pehawk]

So, the offense is improvisational under Bevell? You think credit for players improvising should be evenly distributed amongst the play-caller and the players themselves? Huh?

In part, yes. Do you think that when Sidney Rice and Golden Tate always got into the right spot at the right time when a passing play broke down was sheer luck? Do you think that when Doug Baldwin moves to the sideline when Russ decides to bail on the pocket is purely what he thinks is best and that all of the receivers are running around like headless chickens trying to find the best spot to help Wilson out?

OR

Do you think it's more likely that they've been coached to either turn upfield, to the sidelines, start blocking or whatever to try and extend the play and gain yards. I can just imagine it in the gameplan "right guys, I'm not that great a coordinator, so if the play breaks down and Russell leaves the pocket, what I want you to do is just help him out man, OK? Improvise! It's what you do best".

Of course there's design in their scramble drills. That wasn't the tone or vibe of my response. I was clarifying what he was saying specifically.

No ones answered my question if they'd want Bevell sans Marshaun and Wilson?

 

[Scottemojo]

Let's be honest. This thread wasn't started with honest debate in mind. It we started with the premise that if you disagree with Doug you are a shitty fan. It was a toxic envronment for healthy debate from the first keystroke.

BTW that was not my motivation at all . . . it also wasn't my motivation to be crude in the thread title, and I sincerely apologize for coming off that way.

I found the statistic interesting, and Baldwin's comments offered an interpretation from a players perspective on those statistics.

It was started to foster discussion. It was not started to paint people's fandom in a particular light. I do somewhat resent my motivations being questioned, but given how quickly the thread went this direction, I guess I can see where I may have thrown a rock into the wrong pond.

The sad thing to me is I left this place 5 years ago because I got tired of the drama. I have returned but mostly lurked for the last year because I didn't want to be part of the problem. But I guess that is unavoidable.

Once you used the word hater, discussion was going to be secondary to labeling and factioning.

That said, I like a lot of the offensive concepts we use. I think our red zone production all year long has been tied to a tendency to get cute with an understaffed passing game that is bases on a they will never see this coming type philosophy. Early in the rams game we were undone by that stuff every time we got near field goal range. The rams have shown for two years now that play action passing is their focus. And that their Russ spy has blitz discretion. I find it extremely interesting that a quick pass game with no play action has been a catalyst for weeks now, but feels like a last resort at times.

But Bevell didn't make Russ force a high ball and he didn't make lynch fumble. It was a play caller team effort to look that bad.

 

[drdiags]

There were a few unanswered questions:

Would I want Bevel sans Lynch and Wilson - Wouldn't care. Pete isn't going to let anyone have an offense putting up 35-40 balls a game

Is Paul Richardson the reason for improvement in execution of "blitz beaters" over Kearse? (Not sure I captured the point raised by Sarlacc?)

These are just a few talking points that both sides haven't responded to until the acrimony subsides.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Richardson seems to be excelling at getting open quickly lately. Its something our other WR often struggle to do.

I think we're using him better in that respect. I'm starting to see stuff that's pretty reminiscent of his college tape and it's exciting. It's very possible and perhaps even likely that Paul's body is finally adjusting to the extra weight he added.

There was one play against Arizona that made my jaw drop a little. It was on Okafor's sack on 1st and 10 (the play before Willson's only non-TD catch) and is evidence of the small margins that decide plays.

In this instance Paul and Doug ran deeper routes, Russ has time to look downfield but they were both still running deep and covered up, Baldwin looks round but has tight coverage. The pressure comes and Russ has to bail to his right as Okafor chases him from the left and he has defenders in front of him. If a blocker had picked Okafor up and given Russ an extra second then he'd have seen Baldwin shake his defender who falls forward trying to pursue him in what would have been a sure TD. Of course, Russ could have also put it up there for Richardson who at the same time had pulled a filthy double move and exploded free down the middle of the field, leaving his corner, Patrick Peterson, absolutely nowhere.

I'm sorry I don't have the tape, but if anyone's got access to the game go and watch it, they give a good view of it on the broadcast.

 

[McGruff]

No ones answered my question if they'd want Bevell sans Marshaun and Wilson?

Depends. Who do we have in their place? TJack and Turbin with all the rest of our current personnel? Of course not . . . any OC has to have SOME weapons to work with.

 

[jlwaters1]

So a guy like Sean Payton gets credit for being a genius because has a Hall of Fame QB, a All-Pro TE, plays in a dome and created a pass first scheme which doesn't do quite as well on the road and can't close out games but needs to be high scoring because of his bad defense.

While Bevell gets no credit for implementing an offense which is venue proof, weather proof, that utilizes the strengths of its players and can tighten the noose in the last 6 minutes of every game but is also #11 in passing plays over 20 yards with 54 on the season even though we are last in attempts with 454.

Good points. As pointed out in the article we set a record for most yards ever by a seahawks team. To suggest Bevell is below average is ridiculous.

Execution will ALWAYS trump play calling. As Baldwin states : The offense has struggled to execute the plays properly leading to Russell having to make something out of nothing. It's not the OC fault Kearse can't create separation consistently. It's not the OC's fault that Luke Willson has dropped 4 or so passes the last few games (even thought he open). It's not the OC's fault the OL false starts (or other such preventable penalty) inside the redzone.

Execution is entirely on the players and what we have seen is the offensive players being incredibly inconsistent in their execution of the plays.

 

[Sarlacc83]

No ones answered my question if they'd want Bevell sans Marshaun and Wilson?

Depends. Who do we have in their place? TJack and Turbin with all the rest of our current personnel? Of course not . . . any OC has to have SOME weapons to work with.

Sorry, didn't see this one, either.

I would say no, but just like I wouldn't want McDaniels without Brady or Belicheck. Some people blend really well together and disturbing the interplay hurts all.

 

[themunn]

Of course there's design in their scramble drills. That wasn't the tone or vibe of my response. I was clarifying what he was saying specifically.

No ones answered my question if they'd want Bevell sans Marshaun and Wilson?

Sorry, I misunderstood the post.

I would still take Bevell, yes. Who are you offering up as replacements? TJax and Julius Jones?
Would you take Vince Lombardi sans Bart Starr and Jim Taylor? maybe, but you can't discount a coach for having good talent - one thing a good coach does is maximise the talent around him, look at San Francisco under Mike Singletary and under Jim Harbaugh, good players can't do it alone.

I don't believe it's coincidence that Favre's career best year was at age 40 with Bevell. And I DEFINITELY don't believe it's coincidence that Russell Wilson has had the greatest 3 year start to a career of any QB ever - though Dan Marino had a good start under a pretty decent coach too.

 

[-The Glove-]

Kubiak and Shannahan are also traditional WCO guys.

We all need to step back and admit that because of a combination of QB skill set, bad pass blocking, and lack of immediate separation by the receivers, Pete, Darrell and Tom have crafted a unique offense built around tough running and boom or bust passing. Its different, and is a result of circumstance as much as forethought. They have adjusted to what they have, and it has worked, and I think that needs to be recognized.

I don't agree with that because I've never seen Russell struggle on a consistent basis to make any kind of throw. He was efficient in the middle of the field as a rookie. He's proven he can beat the blitz. He is asked to run the RO (didnt he beg Bevell and Co. To do this in the playoffs?)on a regular basis and more times than not, he makes the correct read. So my question is, what limits a QB if he can make all the throws and is capable of changing plays at the line (ala AZ)????

 

[drdiags]

I still am old school when it comes to QBs. They used to be expected to take 5 yrs before they got it.That type of thinking had to change due to the enormous amount of money invested into them but I do think there is some residual thinking among coaches in this regard. The other extreme is teams willing to toss a top pick after 2 years.

Wilson can have great study habits but he still has to perform on the field and I wonder how much of the offense Pete is willing to let him use?

We think Wilson can handle it all but was interesting to hear MRob's comments earlier in the season about wondering if Wilson was ready for this. I chalked it up to his loyalty for Marshawn but as a former teammate, he would know more about the background details that we don't.

I wish we had those old-fashion chalk talks the HCs used to do back in the day. I guess FieldGulls and others try to fill this void but as outsiders they are making best guesses on who had what responsibilities.

 

[-The Glove-]

I still am old school when it comes to QBs. They used to be expected to take 5 yrs before they got it.That type of thinking had to change due to the enormous amount of money invested into them but I do think there is some residual thinking among coaches in this regard. The other extreme is teams willing to toss a top pick after 2 years.

Wilson can have great study habits but he still has to perform on the field and I wonder how much of the offense Pete is willing to let him use?

We think Wilson can handle it all but was interesting to hear MRob's comments earlier in the season about wondering if Wilson was ready for this. I chalked it up to his loyalty for Marshawn but as a former teammate, he would know more about the background details that we don't.

I wish we had those old-fashion chalk talks the HCs used to do back in the day. I guess FieldGulls and others try to fill this void but as outsiders they are making best guesses on who had what responsibilities.

Wilson threw a game-winning bomb vs NE, a hail mary to GT, 2 VS the Bears, lead us all the way back VS WAS and ATL. Call me Anthony, but I have no reason to believe RW can handle anything and everything that is thrown at him. If that was the case, where were his audibles from the AZ to STL game?